The Sunday Law

[John317]

I like what I see at that link, Maria. A great beginning. Looks wonderful.

[MariaS]

I like what I see at that link, Maria. A great beginning. Looks wonderful.

Thank you John,

We are just starting and trying to add in little by little everyday. Richard has been distracted with C/A so he did not have much time yet to contribute at the amazinggrace.

God Bless

[MariaS]

Sweetheart I think you need to back up at least one page and read more thoroughly what wayfinder is really saying. I don't think you understood him properly

Oppppssssssss

I am sorry sweetheart I did not make myself clear.

okay, I was agreeing with Wayfinder for one thing, that God's people has been sealed before the great tribulation. Now if he is reffering the great tribulation with the "Jacob's time of trouble, that is right but if he is refering it to the "Sunday law" I will definitely could not agree with him.

As what I mentioned, the Sunday Law or the inforcement of worshiping on Sunday will be the final test of who is on God's side and who is in the other side (Satan). After the enforcement of the Sunday Law and people have made their decision on which side they are, then only the sealing process will takes place.

I was already doubtful of what Wayfinder said regarding "if ever there is one called the Sunday law"..perhaps he did not understand what is sunday law..I dont know.

I believe there is a time when sabbath keeper will not have a freedom to worship and our greatest enemy not the outside of church but the within.

The good news is, we will be delivered and the end fait of those who knows the truth or have all the privilage to know the real truth but rejected it will be a terrible one.

[John317]

One thing I completely understand is being distracted by C/A, since it's happened to me a time or two in the last 6 years.

[MariaS]

One thing I completely understand is being distracted by C/A, since it's happened to me a time or two in the last 6 years.

Hehehehehe,

He work hard all day long with short free time at home on weekdays and on weekends, he spend rasionalizing with some people on C/A..at times I dont like it once he is in that situation..I think he already slowed down lately though and hope he will not be too distracted like you are...

Blessings to you and family

[Woody]

Quote:

Hehehehehe,

He work hard all day long with short free time at home on weekdays and on weekends, he spend rasionalizing with some people on C/A..at times I dont like it once he is in that situation..I think he already slowed down lately though and hope he will not be too distracted like you are...

Yes. Dear Richard used to be the top dog on the Hall of Fame. And he had a good lead on the rest of us. Now he has been demoted to a lower position. But I guess that's what work will do to one.

[MariaS]

Quote:

Hehehehehe,

He work hard all day long with short free time at home on weekdays and on weekends, he spend rasionalizing with some people on C/A..at times I dont like it once he is in that situation..I think he already slowed down lately though and hope he will not be too distracted like you are...

Yes. Dear Richard used to be the top dog on the Hall of Fame. And he had a good lead on the rest of us. Now he has been demoted to a lower position. But I guess that's what work will do to one.

Hi Woody,

The important one is he is the top in my heart and God is top in his heart.

It does not metter if he is ranked low here on C/A, I am ok with that.

God Bless

[MariaS]

Originally Posted By: Maria Sangkong

]

LifeHiscost, from begining I was in agreement with you. I am sorry I did not make it clear. The highlighted above, was in echoing of what you have written earlier.

Sign of Jonah? Will comment when I have a non rushed time to write.

GBU

I don't think there is any difference in our conclusions, Maria. The text was posted as the reason individuals, whoever they might be, are unable to perceive the nearness of Jesus' coming.

As I understand the similitude of the sign of Jonah, as he was in the belly of the fish for three days, so Jesus was in the belly of the earth for three days (the similitude).

How we are to perceive the signs we are given today that announce His soon appearing, almost makes it inconceivable that anyone except a blatant unbeliever or a person almost totally ignorant of the Word, could possibly miss the reality.

" Later, Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and said, “Tell us, when will all this happen? What sign will signal your return and the end of the world?”

Jesus told them, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’ They will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and threats of wars, but don’t panic. Yes, these things must take place, but the end won’t follow immediately. Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world. But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come.

“Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers. And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold.But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come.

“The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about—the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place.” (Reader, pay attention!) “Then those in Judea must flee to the hills. A person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. A person out in the field must not return even to get a coat. How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for nursing mothers in those days. And pray that your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again. In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones.

“Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

“So if someone tells you, ‘Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,’ don’t bother to go and look. Or, ‘Look, he is hiding here,’ don’t believe it! For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.

“Immediately after the anguish of those days,

the sun will be darkened,

the moon will give no light,

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

And then at last, the sign that the Son of Man is coming will appear in the heavens, and there will be deep mourning among all the peoples of the earth. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven.

“Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches bud and its leaves begin to sprout, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass from the scene until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear.

“However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.

“When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes.

“Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left. Two women will be grinding flour at the mill; one will be taken, the other left.

“So you, too, must keep watch! For you don’t know what day your Lord is coming. Understand this: If a homeowner knew exactly when a burglar was coming, he would keep watch and not permit his house to be broken into. You also must be ready all the time, for the Son of Man will come when least expected.

“A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 24 NLT

God blesses!

P.S. I thought to cut some of the chapter out but found no place appropriate to condense. In another translation it is written, "This generation will not pass away until all these things taken together shall come to pass, and then you shall see the sign of the Son of Man coming in power and great glory"

We're living in exciting times, with only one tragic caveat.

"then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn"Matt 24

Amen LifeHiscost

[Pastor_Chick]

Ellen White had this to say:

Quote:

"Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. " 9T 233

The National Sunday Law issue is often used to promote the gospel of fear. That is not the right approach. There is no record of Ellen White ever using the term "National Sunday Law" or even predicting the enactment of such. She did predict national enforcement of Sunday Laws. That prediction has been fulfilled. The Supreme Court has repeatedly "enforced" national level Sunday Laws.

[Pastor_Chick]

First of all, the prophecy is that no one will buy or sell lest one have the MOB. It does not say, "No one will buy or sell on Sunday"

So, can someone give it a shot and explain it to me? How can you enforce both the Sunday Law, and preventing people from buying and selling for breaking such law?

Right now, it sort of resonates as a mantra that seems to have no connection with the idea of people receiving a mark, and people without a mark not being able to buy or sell.

Woody, you say that it already happened. Were these people prohibited from buying or selling for breaking the blue laws?

[MariaS]

Pastor_Chick,

Your post stimulate my thinking. Thanks

Unfortunately, not many SDAs are interested with such detail especially for female. To many I know, they just want some practicle daily applicable truth. Some men do have this problem too.

Keep up the good work

GBU

[Woody]

Quote:

I am aware that the US Supreme Court has found that state Sunday legislation is constitutional based on the secular nature of those laws. I am not aware of any "national level Sunday laws."

The decisions of our Supreme Court are applicable nation wide. The Sunday Laws currently on the books are approved nation wide via US Supreme Court decisions. I hope I've worded that correctly. If not someone will come by and correct me. Like say ... Tom.

[Light Fox]

The decisions of our Supreme Court are applicable nation wide. The Sunday Laws currently on the books are approved nation wide via US Supreme Court decisions. I hope I've worded that correctly.

That's very close to accurate, though "approved" is a bit of a strong word. It is still true that there are not (and never have been - in the U.S. at least) national level Sunday laws. Of course, other countries have seen them come and go over the years, such as Canada.

Essentially, the Supreme Court ruled when the issue was appealed to them of state Sunday laws that such laws had a "legitimate secular purpose" and were thus constitutional despite their religious origins. It's actually somewhat similar to rulings from Appeals courts favoring applying "secular trademark law" to religious disputes.

In any event, while the Supreme Court decision validates those laws nation-wide, it does not impose them nationwide. An actual new law would still need to be introduced and passed to apply to the entire nation. It could, of course, fall back on the Supreme Court rulings regarding State laws if it were challenged.

As Pastor_Chick pointed out, however, simply a Sunday law was never the actual issue. A Sunday law is simply a law prohibiting work on Sunday. That of itself is not a problem. Mrs. White saw Sunday laws, and advised believers against going out and violating them; instead using the day to reach out in evangelism or other forms of ministry.

The issue was that Sunday legislation was pressed to the point of passage by religious organizations. Once this was accomplished on a nation-wide level, it would then serve as a vehicle for further legislation, demanding not only abstinence from work on Sunday, but for it to be actively regarded as the day of worship. That would be when Sunday would be the test.

Of course, there are several very real issues with expecting this to occur presently.

In Mrs. White's day, the Sunday lobby was powerful and influential.

In our day, it is literally non-existent.

In Mrs. White's day, Sunday legislation was being considered before Congress in the Blair National Sunday Rest Bill.

In our day, Adventists are prone to jump on it as a sign of the end times when the Pope happens to mention honoring Sunday to any given crowd somewhere in the world.

While some have said that times will change to bring this about, that is... not quite what Mrs. White spoke of. Yes, the leap from not working on Sunday to enforcing Sunday worship was to be a strange one, an outlandish one - one that she said would require rapid movements, and the U.S. repudiating every principle of it's constitution.

Sunday laws simply preventing work, however, were present and being enforced right before her eyes. Essentially, if Sunday is still expected to be the mark of the beast, we must not only expect a bizarre leap to enforcing Sunday worship, but first another bizarre leap to enforcing a day of rest upon a secular and atheistic society, passed by a secular and amoral congress, at the behest of no lobby whatsoever, against the certain voices of protest from now very powerful lobbies such as homosexuals, atheists, Jews, and yes, Seventh-day Adventists.

It seems to me that this tenacious clinging to Sunday as the only possible fulfillment of the Mark of the Beast is, in large part, why Seventh-day Adventists have lost virtually every last modicum of urgency regarding the coming of Christ. The very name "Adventist" was meant to indicate a people who believed it was nigh, even at the doors.

Yet for it to happen now, there must not only be an image formed, but major and unmistakably large events make it possible to even set it up, if it is indeed only Sunday we are to look for.

What was in Mrs. White's day a warning about events transpiring before their very eyes and a shout to prepare yourself has become a message of "Peace and Safety" in our generation, teaching that Christ can't be about to come, because we have no Sunday law yet, and look how unlikely one looks to begin with.

[John317]

Given your previous post, what power is represented by the sea beast of Revelation 13 and what is the mark of its authority? Finally, what power is represented by the beast that rises out of the the earth and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast?

[Pastor_Chick]

“We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed.” [Review & Herald, July 26, 1892]

“Let all prove their positions from the Scriptures and substantiate every point they claim as truth from the revealed word of God.” [Evangelism, page 256]

“There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed and that all our expositions of Scripture are without error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not proof that our ideas are infallible.” [Review & Herald, Dec. 20, 1892]

“The truth of God is progressive; it is always onward, going from strength to greater strength, from light to greater light.” [Signs, May 26, 1890]

As pointed out by Luis Munilla in his Jan. 28, 1995 newsletter, “…Mexico, Canada, Italy, France, Germany and other countries around the world [including England], have already designated Sunday as their day of rest.” (Brackets supplied.) In the past we have understood that the United States would be the first to enforce a National Sunday Law. “Foreign nations will follow the example of the United States, though she leads out, yet the same crisis will come upon our people in all parts of the world.” [6T, p. 395] In context, Ellen White was referring to the restriction of religious liberty when writing of “the same crisis.” On the same page she continues, “… when they [the authorities] command us not to proclaim the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, then it will be necessary for us to say as did the apostles: ‘whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heart.’ Acts 4:19,20.” [Ibid.] Clearly the principle to be understood regarding a crisis arising in our land is the restriction of religious liberty to the degree that Seventh-day Adventist believers “cannot proclaim the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” without being forbidden by law. While this state of things could have been brought about by the National Sunday Law, any “oppressive law” abridging the free exercise of the Seventh-day Adventist faith would fulfill the prophecy.

In 1888 the Blair Sunday Rest Bill was before Congress, and the final test of the image of the beast was soon to be enforced upon the people of God. “…the image of the beast…is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided…” [SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7, page 976] Much of Ellen White’s writing on the subject of the National Sunday Law was pertaining to this event and the efforts by the National Reform Movement/Associaton of that era. In 1889 Ellen wrote, “Events which for more than forty years we have upon the authority of the prophetic word declared to be impending are now taking place before our eyes. Already the question of an amendment to the Constitution restricting liberty of conscience has been urged upon the legislators of the nation. The question of enforcing Sunday observance has become one of national interest and importance. We well know what the result of this movement will be.” [5T, p. 711] By providence, the National Reform Movement failed in their attempts to bring about a national law enforcing Sunday observance. The proposed amendment to the Constitution restricting liberty of conscience was also foiled. But “Foreign nations [have] follow[ed] the example of the United States,” and religious liberty has been restricted for Seventh-day Adventists in various “parts of the world.” However, the image of the beast has never been given life “that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast [might] be killed.” (Rev 13:15) This “oppressive law” has not yet been fully enforced upon God’s Remnant in the United States. Very little effort is required to research the Sunday question around the world. Library databases are replete with this information. As we research the subject, we discover that many countries have passed national Sunday legislation, and in the recent past many of those laws have been repealed. Even in Rome, Italy, where one might think Sunday would be a popular day of rest, controversy over Sunday closing laws has been keen. The difficulty in obtaining support for Sunday closing laws might be demonstrated in a recent statement by Lord’s Day Alliance president Paul J. Craven, Jr., in 1988:

"We have found we live in a day very different from yesteryear. Most legislation supporting Sunday closing has been struck down. Fewer and fewer enterprises are interested in closing on Sundays, and still fewer are sensitive to the desires of individuals who would choose to keep Sunday as a day of worship and rest.

"So where do we go from here? We who comprise the Board of Managers must pool our creative energies constantly to look for and produce new approaches to our mission. What no longer has the support of legislation may now need the support of persuasion." [Liberty Sentinel, vol. 13, 1989-90, Number 5]

In Liberty Alert, vol. 2 no. 1, Jan/Feb 1993, Roland R. Hegstad writes:

"Through the years I’ve seen Sunday laws disappear from the books of 21 states – most recently from Virginia, which in its colonial phase had a law containing the death penalty. An additional 18 states have so liberalized their laws that it would take a psychopath to search out an illegal act. In the remaining states, county by county, municipality by municipality, Sunday laws are being removed from the books. Over the 30 years the growing secularization of society has been a greater threat to our church than have Sunday Laws."

And much more can be written and stated on this subject. It is high time Seventh-day Adventists again become "the people of the Book."

"God has a people who will preserve their fidelity to his truth, who will make the Bible, and the Bible alone, their rule of faith and doctrine, who will elevate the standard, and hold aloft the banner on which is inscribed, "The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." They will value a pure gospel, and make the Bible the foundation of their faith and doctrine." (Signs, Feb. 19, 1894)

“In every age there is a new development of truth, a message of God to the people of that generation. The old truths are essential; new truth is not independent of the old, but an unfolding of it… it is the light which shines in the fresh unfolding of the New that glorifies the Old. He who rejects the New, does not really possess, the Old. For him it loses vital power, and becomes but a lifeless form.” [Signs, June 20, 1902]

Let us grasp the "new" and apply it aright so that we may "possess" and "glorify" the "old."

[hch]

If there's a Sunday Law by the end of this year I will literally eat my hat.

I'll take a cap, chop it finely and saute it with some onions, sesame oil, garlic and ginger, and eat the lot.

Anyone want to mirror that bet?

[hch]

Joining Sunday keeping churches now in their worship on the false day will only make it easier to worship with them when we are faced with the death penalty if we refuse to keep Sunday. Ellen White says, in this very context: "It is better to die than to sin." LDE 142. If we have the attitude that sin is no big deal and that we can maintain sin in our lives and yet be saved, will we choose to die and be loyal to God rather than commit sin against God? The answer is self-evident.

[hch]

The "Sunday Law", if there ever is one, will not be a test for Seventh-day Adventists. They will already have been sealed before the great tribulation starts.

Do you have a quote to back that up?

[Pastor_Chick]

Originally Posted By: wayfinder

The "Sunday Law", if there ever is one, will not be a test for Seventh-day Adventists. They will already have been sealed before the great tribulation starts.

Do you have a quote to back that up?

Henry,

What we need is the "eyesalve" offered in Rev. 3:18, remembering that spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Cor. 2:13, 14)

There are some groups that will cite "a quote" that, if taken just as it reads, will cause Christians a serious problem.

NOTE: "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" (Jer. 31:31)

It is the Apostle Paul that "saves the day" with his new testament theology. But, his gospel is radical in the minds of any taking a strictly literal interpretation of the Old Testament. Was Jeremiah a false prophet? Of course not, but one must have spiritual eyes to understand what happened and how his prophecy is to be rightly applied.

This subject of the Sunday Law and Ellen G. White's treatment of it is one that needs to be sorted out according to the leading and inspiration of the Spirit of God and of Christ.

I, for one, have been studying this subject of the mark of the beast, image of the beast, Sunday laws, etc. for the past 22 years, and that, with great intensity. I traveled the United States widely, visiting every university library I could locate, including Adventist institutions, seeking clues to the "Sunday law dilemma."

I will soon be publishing my findings online where all of my other works are stored (Key words: pastor PCwritings).

Let us labor tenaciously to discover "truth as it is in Jesus" so that deception will never overtake us.

[Pastor_Chick]

In the latter 19th century, Ellen White and the SDA constituency were faced with the imminent dangers of the National Reform Association (NRA) agenda. Surprisingly, the NRA still exists today, tough the wind has been taken out of its sails.

This movement was the agency of Satan trying to bring about a "man-made theocracy." Take a look at the NRA objectives within its constitution.

"The object of this Society shall be to maintain existing Christian features in the American Government, to promote needed reforms in the action of the government touching the Sabbath, the institution of the Family, the religious element in Education, the Oath, and Public Morality as affected by the liquor traffic and other kindred evils; and to secure such an amendment to the Constitution of the United States as will declare the nation's allegiance to Jesus Christ and its acceptance of the moral laws of the Christian religion, and so indicate that this is a Christian nation, and place all the Christian laws, institutions and usages of our government on an undeniable legal basis in the fundamental law of the land."

The 1888 Blair Sunday Rest Bill, which prompted most of Ellen White's writings relating to what is called "the national Sunday law," was one significant attempt at bringing about the agenda of the NRA within the federal government.

[kimberlykindhear]

There is a test for the church in every age. The test of yesterday is not the test of today. A Sunday law test would be about as effective today as a test over who worships Baal in their local grove.

When the Jews were tested by a king wearing a crown of thorns they quoted the prophets to support their actions. Sadly, many people idolize their church founders and prophets. Rather than try to find the meaning behind Ellen White's application of the Sunday law, they accept the traditional views of their Pastors. The Jews didn't want to accept Christ's teachings if it meant they would have to disassociate from their religious leaders or risk being different from their family and friends. The same is a test for Seventh-day Adventists.

Religious tolerance is the core issue of the Sabbath test. If we do not protect the religious freedom of other non-conference Seventh Day Adventist's then we are in violation of the Sabbath and have received the mark of the beast in our spirits. The spirit of the beast (like people that devised Sunday laws) is intolerance.

When our pioneers thought a Sunday law would be the fulfillment of the mark of the beast they were trying to understand how prophesy and current day events related at that time. The pioneers believed that the church would be perfected and Christ would come during their time. Sadly, in 1888, the church rejected the message of perfection by faith and the church wasn't ready for a test when the Sunday law would have been a relevant one.

A lot has changed since the states began making Sunday Blue Laws. Our society has become secularized where as before it was religious. Today, the whole world is consumed with money, trade and trade marks. A lot has also changed in the Seventh-day Adventist church.

Ellen White's prophetic application of the Sunday law was dependant upon the church's acceptance of the 1888 message (the spiritual Sabbath--rest from sin through faith in Christ). The Sabbath test is meant to divide those who keep the commandments from those who don't. Of course, commandment keeping is like circumcision, it must begin in the heart. A Sunday test would not reveal our characters and separate true Sabbath keepers from those who keep the Sabbath in letter only.

[Pastor_Chick]

Pastor_Chick,

Your post stimulate my thinking. Thanks

Unfortunately, not many SDAs are interested with such detail especially for female. To many I know, they just want some practicle daily applicable truth. Some men do have this problem too.

Keep up the good work

GBU

Maria,

Thank you for the kind words and honest heart. Your perception of the professed believers is also true.

Let us pray that a revival and reformation will take place among God's people. May we understand the hour in which we live and care enough to win the hearts of others via the love of YAHSHUA our LORD.

[Pastor_Chick]

A lot has changed since the states began making Sunday Blue Laws. Our society has become secularized where as before it was religious. Today, the whole world is consumed with money, trade and trade marks. A lot has also changed in the Seventh-day Adventist church.

[...]

A Sunday test would not reveal our characters and separate true Sabbath keepers from those who keep the Sabbath in letter only.

Kimberly,

I think you are on to something. We need to try and "wrap our minds" around these ideas. It is true that every precept of God's law has "letter" and "spirit."

Even if a person gives their body to be burned (for their faith) and has no LOVE, it proves nothing. Yes, this is worth our time.

[doug yowell]

Essentially, the Supreme Court ruled when the issue was appealed to them of state Sunday laws that such laws had a "legitimate secular purpose" and were thus constitutional despite their religious origins. It's actually somewhat similar to rulings from Appeals courts favoring applying "secular trademark law" to religious disputes.

In any event, while the Supreme Court decision validates those laws nation-wide, it does not impose them nationwide. An actual new law would still need to be introduced and passed to apply to the entire nation. It could, of course, fall back on the Supreme Court rulings regarding State laws if it were challenged.

As Pastor_Chick pointed out, however, simply a Sunday law was never the actual issue. A Sunday law is simply a law prohibiting work on Sunday. That of itself is not a problem. Mrs. White saw Sunday laws, and advised believers against going out and violating them; instead using the day to reach out in evangelism or other forms of ministry.

The issue was that Sunday legislation was pressed to the point of passage by religious organizations. Once this was accomplished on a nation-wide level, it would then serve as a vehicle for further legislation, demanding not only abstinence from work on Sunday, but for it to be actively regarded as the day of worship. That would be when Sunday would be the test.

Of course, there are several very real issues with expecting this to occur presently.

In Mrs. White's day, the Sunday lobby was powerful and influential.

In our day, it is literally non-existent.

In Mrs. White's day, Sunday legislation was being considered before Congress in the Blair National Sunday Rest Bill.

In our day, Adventists are prone to jump on it as a sign of the end times when the Pope happens to mention honoring Sunday to any given crowd somewhere in the world.

While some have said that times will change to bring this about, that is... not quite what Mrs. White spoke of. Yes, the leap from not working on Sunday to enforcing Sunday worship was to be a strange one, an outlandish one - one that she said would require rapid movements, and the U.S. repudiating every principle of it's constitution.

Sunday laws simply preventing work, however, were present and being enforced right before her eyes. Essentially, if Sunday is still expected to be the mark of the beast, we must not only expect a bizarre leap to enforcing Sunday worship, but first another bizarre leap to enforcing a day of rest upon a secular and atheistic society, passed by a secular and amoral congress, at the behest of no lobby whatsoever, against the certain voices of protest from now very powerful lobbies such as homosexuals, atheists, Jews, and yes, Seventh-day Adventists.

It seems to me that this tenacious clinging to Sunday as the only possible fulfillment of the Mark of the Beast is, in large part, why Seventh-day Adventists have lost virtually every last modicum of urgency regarding the coming of Christ. The very name "Adventist" was meant to indicate a people who believed it was nigh, even at the doors.

Yet for it to happen now, there must not only be an image formed, but major and unmistakably large events make it possible to even set it up, if it is indeed only Sunday we are to look for.

What was in Mrs. White's day a warning about events transpiring before their very eyes and a shout to prepare yourself has become a message of "Peace and Safety" in our generation, teaching that Christ can't be about to come, because we have no Sunday law yet, and look how unlikely one looks to begin with.

I find your analysis of this issue is very well reasoned,Q. It mirrors much of what I've tried to convey (alas,to no avail)over the past 20 years. I don't agree with the "adjustment" of EGW's identification of the final issues in the spiritual controversy. If she got the Sunday Law wrong,she also misdiagnosed a bunch of other events and principles too.If she got the Sunday test correct then suggesting that it was merely a conditional prediction annuls the entire prophesy itself.Thus,although I'm open to other possibilities, I'm left to conclude that the Sunday substitution scenerio is a sure bet.Given the major social/economic/religious/ect... obstacles that need to be scaled,I have to assume that it's fulfillment is no time soon.(But personally,I don't see how Christ can come back until He's been clearly heard on the Sabbath imperative)This in no way excuses anyone from extolling a lax Christian committment. If anything it puts more urgency on the SDA to accurately represent the character of Christ to this dying world.How we live today sets the stage for what God can bring about tomorrow.

[Pastor_Chick]

I find your analysis of this issue is very well reasoned,Q. It mirrors much of what I've tried to convey (alas,to no avail)over the past 20 years. [...] If she got the Sunday test correct then suggesting that it was merely a conditional prediction annuls the entire prophesy itself. Thus,although I'm open to other possibilities, I'm left to conclude that the Sunday substitution scenerio is a sure bet. Given the major social/economic/religious/ect... obstacles that need to be scaled,I have to assume that it's fulfillment is no time soon.(But personally,I don't see how Christ can come back until He's been clearly heard on the Sabbath imperative)This in no way excuses anyone from extolling a lax Christian committment. If anything it puts more urgency on the SDA to accurately represent the character of Christ to this dying world.How we live today sets the stage for what God can bring about tomorrow.

Thank you, Doug,

Yes,"Q" kind of "hit the nail on the head."

So, I think you are saying you can opt for another fulfillment of Rev. 13:11-17. Have you thought much about the depth and width of "Sabbath?" I mean, Sabbath is not just a day, a 24-hour period that we must observe "according to the commandment."

The "spirit of Sabbath" is what demonstrates and proves our character. If we do ill to our neighbor (whether "friend" or "foe"), we violate the Sabbath. The Sabbath is the "seal of the living God," and "God is LOVE." The consistent "perfect reflection of the character of Christ," becomes the "seal of the living God" in the practical sense, and thus, we "keep the Sabbath day holy."

I think it is worth getting "back to the Bible," and defining the terms of the prophecy as to what each one is in principle. This is really not too complicated once "tunnel vision" is removed and "eyesalve" is applied.