Members phkrause Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 You are not really using EGWs writings in a way that she would approve; however, your three main points are worth looking at. 1/ Sunday laws do not have to include that mandate until the very end. We are actually told that it will be an incremental occurence which will steal upon the world gradually, almost imperceptively at first. But certainly, any Sunday law, regardless of it's imposition on the seventh-day Sabbath & those who wish to keep that day; shows us that so far, everything we were taught is true. 2/ Neither is keeping Sunday proof of anything; except that some are open to what God says, and some are not. 3/ The real test you speak about will be revealed by those who obey God, and those who do not. Excellent post OA. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 Pastor C, not bad, but what r people going to do when they are caught with their pants down when the NSL never happens? Why would they be caught with there pants down?? If no NSL I guess there's nothing to worry about than is there? I'd say its those that think that there will be no NSL that will be caught with there pants down!!!!! Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Rich - time to get a clue... R.C Sproul - well known Presbyterian scholar, author and theolgian. R.C Sproul's "Renewing your Mind" - Radio program took a call from a listener asking about Sunday Laws in America today. Renewing your Mind” – Radio program Sproul said Sabbath was instituted at Creation – applies to all mankind. Is not limited to the Jews. Sproul said that Sunday Sabbath Should be “protected” by the State. Hear the program at 15:35 minutes at this link: http://www.wniv.com/player/player.aspx?ShowId=201 (Press "Play" arrow on the Real Player icon and slide the progress bar forward to 15:35) 5. This is it 15:35 -- ends on 19:34 a. Sabbath was instituted at Creation b. – applies to all mankind. Is not limited to the Jews. c. Should be “protected” by the State. Thoughts? Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 BR, The truth can only set one free from sin when they practice it. Believing there will be a NSL is believing a lie. Isn't it time to study the words of Jesus to find this real truth? When and ONLY when you do this then a lie is simple to find, even from those who called themselves apostles, the ones who never met Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Fox Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Originally Posted By: Qinael So... when it's a Sunday law advanced for "family-values and patriotism" that may or may not come to pass, it's rallying time. When it's a Trademark law implemented for "property holding and protecting our good name" ... it's just the way the laws work. You got it. No Bible commandment saying that it is evil for that State to try and protect the property of its citizens. As you note - pretty simple. But when it comes to the State trying to enforce a day of worship of its own making and abolish the Bible Sabbath -- well that is another matter entirely. Just stating the obvious on that point. in Christ, Bob Hi Bob, A couple of questions for you, then. Firstly, why did you see fit to remove the part about Adventists being placed in jail as the result of your trademark litigation? That seems a rather convenient omission of the relevant facts at hand. "No Bible commandment saying that it is evil for that State to try and protect the property of its citizens." True enough. Is there one saying it is evil to take Christians before the civil courts? Is there one saying that if someone teaches in your name falsely, you are to let them be? Is there one saying that it is evil to use the civil power to protect the Church? Turns out there are several. Secondly, you're really not talking about "the State trying to enforce a day of worship of its own making and abolish the Bible Sabbath." What you're talking about is some people discussing someday asking the State to make a law that requires people to stop working, that may or may not be a foothold to another law later. Either way, what I am seeing is you doing the same thing as the people you claim to be protesting. Where you say "enforcing a day of worship and abolishing the Bible Sabbath," they say "Enacting a day for the Family and honoring patriotism." Where I say "Enforcing religious observances and putting Christians behind bars," you say "Protecting citizens property." The only real difference is that the one you protest is somewhere over the rainbow, while the one I am protesting is here and now placing people in jail - with your support. Now, I mentioned a question upcoming in this. A couple of pages back, you said that the mark of the beast would be similar to the trial Daniel went through, in which the King ordered him not to pray. My question: Can you show me where Daniel would have read that he was instructed to pray multiple times a day? Where was his basis for disregarding that order from "the civil authorities," meant to "honor the king?" Quote www.Adventistry.to/Answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 No Bible commandment saying that it is evil for that State to try and protect the property of its citizens. As you note - pretty simple. But when it comes to the State trying to enforce a day of worship of its own making and abolish the Bible Sabbath -- well that is another matter entirely. Just stating the obvious on that point. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 in any case the state is not allowed to regulate worship to the extent of telling you if or when you can pray... or if and when you can attend church etc. in Christ, Bob I think we need also to recall in the book of Daniel where the state did have the legislation in place to say when or if people could pray. Actually, in Daniel's case, it went so far as to include legislation about what/who the people were allowed to pray to. Could this kind of thing happen again? Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I agree that ultimately it gets to "who" you should be worshipping not just when. But before it gets too far down that road there is some kind of "when you should worship" or at the very least "a loyalty oath" of some kind that includes verbage about the Lord's Day being Sunday. The minimalist forms that we have today as "state blue laws" would not violate any of the commandments since it does not require that SDAs call Sunday a day of worship or that we not worship on Sabbath. Passing the "initial level" of the NSL that is merely the state blue laws applied at the national level - sets up the image and creates "the final sign" to leave the large cities, but it does no force SDAs to "choose" and is not a "test" for SDAs other than the test to leave the cities. And that brings us to the question of just what it is that would even lead the US to think in terms of an NSL to begin with - given our much more secular society today as compared to the Blair bill days. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I think it's worth to not something no one yet has. The original BLOG post was posted by a guy who is Obama suporter. Calling this "Pope urges Obama to enact Sunday laws" based on this blog post alone is more than misleading. Here's the guy who posted it: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/Tritium If you read the article, you will likewise see why he thinks that Sunday laws would not have worked out very well in US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I think it's worth to not something no one yet has. The original BLOG post was posted by a guy who is Obama suporter. Calling this "Pope urges Obama to enact Sunday laws" based on this blog post alone is more than misleading. Here's the guy who posted it: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/Tritium If you read the article, you will likewise see why he thinks that Sunday laws would not have worked out very well in US. This is a very confusing wordy article; hard to make out the dude's real point. Can't see what it has to do with anything in this subject. You make a good point though - not a good idea to call anything something it's not. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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