breathing a sigh of relief over the un-sealing of "the book"

[wicklunds]

I am thinking now that there are people who want to keep the Bible a "mystical" book and thereby deny that the book referred to in Daniel 12:4 has been un-sealed. The experience of the early Advent movement during William Miller days and the subsequent forming of the Adventist Church were more than a fuzzy coincidence. The unsealing of the book and the fulfilling of prophecy are characterizations I am willing to commit to. Do you believe the book has been unsealed? If so what makes you so sure? Here is the verse for ease of use:

Dan 12:4 "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."

Don't forget to look at the surrounding context and draw from you own thoughts and experience here.

Enjoy,

Dennis

[Guest]

Dennis my "sigh of relief" was short lived, I thought that someone had the foritude to start a thread on the Revelation 5 & 6 sealed book, but you are talking about Daniel 12. If you are also refering to Revelations sealed book with 7 seals, the following may be of help to tell you exactly what is contained in this book that Jesus takes from the Fathers hand.

On an Adventist forum recently, I was asked these words: "Okay, Ed, I just stopped by for the day, haven't read the whole thread. Since you like to make the points quickly, give me the short version. What's your point with the 24 elders?"

The 24 Elders are "redeemed" [Rev.5:9] ex-sinners from this earth. They are alive and well, setting on 24 seats in the presence of the Father, who is also sitting down, on "His Throne" [5:2]. The "Lamb", [5:6] is Jesus; He is standing. The same number of angels that are present in this assembly [5:11] is the same number that Daniel spoke of in Daniel 7:10, "thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the Judgment was set, and the books were opened."

Now this "him" above is God the Father. The "books were opened" above, is the book that the "Lamb" takes from the Father's hand, and unseals one generation of names at a time. Only the names of those that professed faith in God are considered [GC 480] in this Investigative Judgement now in process.

This book contains the deeds of those people who were dead, as this necessary judgement begins. The angels present are the record keepers of those deeds. The 24 ELDERS [the jurors] want to look them right in the eye as each piece of the evidence is presented. These 24 ELDERS have the same roots as the people's names being judged, [our peers] as the life and death issues proceeds. Each name is searched as with "lighted candles", one at a time.

The name of Samson finally is called out. The record of him crawling back to that harlot's bed even after he knew God's power was running unlimited in his body when duty was on the throne, must be examined. The 24 ELDERS wanted to know, did he REALLY DO THAT! Yes, he did, according to the books! But there is someone standing as the 24 ELDERS and the Father are seated, He has something to add to this judgement scene. He holds up His hands, He is saying something about blood to this Judge and pleading in Samson's defense. He is acquainted with blood being shed, Him being the innocent Lamb that was slain.[Rev.5:6]

Jesus tells the angels to keep turning the pages, He wanted the 24 ELDERS to SEE the evidence of Samson coming to his senses after years of foolish living. Samson DID repent, the blood of the Lamb covers every hook and cranny of a selfish, up and down life. Jesus can now plead with even a greater plea, the 24 ELDERS are satisfied and nod.

Now the Father can announce that justice has been met.

"Just write Samson's name in the book of life" is the order given, as the 24 ELDERS ponder whose name will be next.

After all the dead are judged the same exact way, with individual names going either in the Book of Life or in the Book of Death.

Then the cases of the living are considered next with their cases remaining open until the cut off date when Jesus must speak!

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which Is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be" Rev.22:11,12.

After Jesus says those words, the 24 ELDER get up and start packing for at least a 14 day trip, back to where their roots are on this earth. Not to touch down, but to greet their former friends of years gone by in the air.

Does anyone remember that song that goes like this:

"I dreamed I searched heaven for you...oh friend want you prepare to me up there, lest I search heaven for you"? Well I plan on doing a little "searching" on my journey up. Someone may even point out to me one of the 24 ELDERS immediately, but if not, there will be an another opportunity-My search surely will include Sarnson, knowing that "Physically, Samson was the strongest man upon the earth; but in self-control, integrity, and firmness, he was one of the weakest of men. Many mistake strong passions for a strong character, but the truth is that he who is mastered by his passions is a weak man. The real greatness of the man is measured by the power of the feelings that he controls, not by those that control him."

Reading such words encourages me that there is hope for a sinner like me. I read where Samson's name is mentioned in Hebrews 11:31-32, "By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. And what shall I more say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and [of] Barak, and [of] Samson, and [of] Jephthae; [of] David also, and Samuel, and [of] the prophets:"

PS - I purposely did not quote from Ellen White in the above "short version" just this one time to those that are offended by the "other books". The longer version? It's on an auto tape where the SOP inspired quotes is freely used. For the tape send me your address.

[DaveM1936]

The phrase, "the time of the end", refers to 1798 and the close of the 1260 rule of the papacy. Less than 35 years later, William Miller came to the prophecy of Daniel 8:14 and the 2300 years. When this time period ran out, the time of the end began in earnest. It was the last of the time prophecies to be fulfilled.

Your friend,

Dave M

[wicklunds]

Thanks Ed,

I will send you my address when I can figure out how to do it in a PM. Your knowledge is valuable to the likes of me. I was mainly referring to the unsealing of the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. Maybe my interpretation is too simplistic and disingenuous but I feel like the ones in the faith holding PhD's are trampling on former interpretation and experience in a bombasitic fashion, not willing to commit to SOP from self-exaltation. I am not implicating anyone here. Maybe I am not the type for questioning and exploring as much as the PhD's. The temptation for someone like me to sit back and put my faith on cruise control can be overwhelming at times, but I feel self-threatened if I dabble too long in doubt. Do you see my point?

[Guest]

Dennis I see your point clearly, when in doubt make no doctrinal moves without asking for Divine help holding Gods word in your own hand. Established teaching means NOTHING at all when they depart from "a thus sayeth the Lord".

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If you ever need a babysitter, don't look in the Yellow Pages, I will be right over.

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Dave, NO, the prophecies of the Bible that truly apply to the future, you and others, have applied to the PAST!! How very shallow to instruct the last generation of God's professed people with this DECEPTION like this. The memory work of the seminary trained ministers to receive a passing grade in order to receive their preaching credentials was absent of plain Bible & SOP instruction. Your understanding of end time events allows you to not go beyond the year of 1844, but serious Bible students will search from inspiration in search of "the very eve of the great consummation." [THE SECOND COMING]

"In the Scriptures are presented truths that relate especially to our own time. To the period just prior to the appearing of the Son of man, the prophecies of Scripture point, and here their warnings and threatenings preeminently apply. The prophetic periods of Daniel, extending to the very eve of the great consummation, throw a flood of light upon events then to transpire. The book of Revelation is also replete with warning and instruction for the last generation. The beloved John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, portrays the fearful and thrilling scenes connected with the close of earth's history, and presents the duties and dangers of God's people. None need remain in ignorance, none need be unprepared for the coming of the day of God." [cf: RH 09-25-83, para. 6] p. 204, para. 2, [188 3SM].

[wicklunds]

Quote:

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If you ever need a babysitter, don't look in the Yellow Pages, I will be right over.

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Hehe, he really is the most handsome and best behaved child you will ever meet. We are truly blessed by the Lord. The only thing is the kid has an appetite that won't stop. I am sure many parents have this problem. And I know it will get worse during the teen years. eat, sleep, potty, play, eat, sleep, potty, play, etc... I will need a good job if I am going to be able to feed the child. Know anyone who is hiring. I am graduating in ten weeks.

[Guest]

Quote:

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The phrase, "the time of the end", refers to 1798 and the close of the 1260 rule of the papacy. Less than 35 years later, William Miller came to the prophecy of Daniel 8:14 and the 2300 years. When this time period ran out, the time of the end began in earnest. It was the last of the time prophecies to be fulfilled.

Your friend,

Dave M

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Dave you mentioned that "less than 35 years" AFTER the 1798 that the "time of the end" begin in earnest. Are you aware in 1903 Ellen white places the "time of the end off in THE FUTURE?? See LDE 15

However are you aware of the difference between the "time of the end" & "end of time" [TM 115]??? The prophet makes a direct distinction allowing serious bible students an opporunity to throw away all their leaning on man studies and return to heavens instruction. But no, the cry is heard ..."Why sir, don't you know my grand daddy built the church I attend and I watched him install a stained glass window, I could NEVER go against his bible studies he gave to me before dieing".

How very sad! Most all the instruction on endtime events has fallen in the street in Adventism as the teachers

"clothed themselves of robes of s self righteous, teaching falsehood as truth". See 9T 268 Somewhere on that page are words like this "And by them [the false teachers/professors/authors] many souls were led astray."

[Guest]

Dave at one time I was against competive sports in SDA school [which is dead wrong} but now I can see by cause and effect that Adventist boys that never played football are handicapped.The ones that studied Theology and don't remember what to do on the fourth down when you are 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage. You PUNT and then try again later boys!!! Just because you have taken a position & have spent hours & hours with another generation study guides in your lay as you build & type together a website doesn't mean the game is over. When you now see evidence that your data base is tanted, throw it out and do it again! This time use bible facts...

[DaveM1936]

Here is the one sentence excerpt.

"Let us read and study the twelfth chapter of Daniel. It is a warning that we shall all need to understand before the time of the end."--15 MR 228 (1903). {LDE 15.4}

Here is another ocassion when she used "the time of the end".

In the Revelation all the books of the Bible meet and end. Here is the complement of the book of Daniel. One is a prophecy; the other a revelation. The book that was sealed is not the Revelation, but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel relating to the last days. The angel commanded, "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end." Daniel 12:4. {AA 585.1}

It was Christ who bade the apostle record that which was to be opened before him. "What thou seest, write in a book," He commanded, "and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea." "I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore. . . . Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in My right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." Revelation 1:11, 18-20. {AA 585.2}

The names of the seven churches are symbolic of the church in different periods of the Christian Era. The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time, while the symbols used reveal the condition of the church at different periods in the history of the word. AA 586

In fact, she used the term 35 times in her writings. One has to put the quote into context to know exactly what she was referring to.

Your friend,

Dave M

[Guest]

Quote:

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Quote:

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The phrase, "the time of the end", refers to 1798 and the close of the 1260 rule of the papacy. Less than 35 years later, William Miller came to the prophecy of Daniel 8:14 and the 2300 years. When this time period ran out, the time of the end began in earnest. It was the last of the time prophecies to be fulfilled.

Your friend,

Dave M

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Dave you mentioned that "less than 35 years" AFTER the 1798 that the "time of the end" begin in earnest. Are you aware in 1903 Ellen white places the "time of the end off in THE FUTURE?? See LDE 15

However are you aware of the difference between the "time of the end" & "end of time" [TM 115]??? The prophet makes a direct distinction allowing serious bible students an opporunity to throw away all their leaning on man studies and return to heavens instruction. But no, the cry is heard ..."Why sir, don't you know my grand daddy built the church I attend and I watched him install a stained glass window, I could NEVER go against his bible studies he gave to me before dieing".

How very sad! Most all the instruction on endtime events has fallen in the street in Adventism as the teachers

"clothed themselves of robes of s self righteous, teaching falsehood as truth". See 9T 268 Somewhere on that page are words like this "And by them [the false teachers/professors/authors] many souls were led astray."

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I think it safe to say that anyone on this forum "breathing a sigh of relief" over the correct understanding of the unsealed book is a very unlikely occurance. Now a dieing gasp is more likely to be heard someday by those still clinging to their over the hill study guides. Do they see bible truth that exposes their training? Yes they do, but are powerless to act.

[Ron Lambert]

There seems to be two ways the expression "the time of the end" is referred to in the Bible. One would be a general sense, which is the one in Daniel 8:17 in regard to the prophecies of Daniel chapter eight, and its time prophecy of 2300 days which ends in 1844. The other would be the more restrictive sense, having to do with the final, "last days" at the very end.

This restrictive sense is the one used in Daniel 11:40. We know this is true because Daniel 12:1 refers back to this same statement in 11:40 when it says "At that time...." then we are told that what takes place at this time of the end is Michael standing up, and the time of trouble transpiring on earth, immediately followed by the special resurrection immediately prior to Christ's Second Coming. Thus the "time of the end" spoken of in 11:40 can only be applied to the final "last days" time of the end. No other interpretation of this would be exegetically sound.

So we have established that the expression "time of the end" can have two meanings, one a general sense, and one a more strict or restrictive sense.

It is interesting to note that it is mainly only the KJV that uses the word "at" in Daniel 8:17. Modern translations variously translate this: "pertains to the time of the end," or "regards the time of the end," or "involves the time of the end." By way of contrast, every translation I know of, including the KJV and all modern translations, render Daniel 11:40: "At the time of the end...." So it appears that the translators of most versions recognized that despite the fact that the same phrase in the original (eth qets) is used in both cases, the expression in 8:17 was meant more loosely, in a general sense, while the expression in 11:40 was more definite and strictly speaking of the very end time.

Since this is what we find in the Bible, we have to be aware that the expression "time of the end" can be meant in one of two different ways.

[wicklunds]

I found an interesting quote on a website:

here is the link:

http://69.10.163.110/edwhite/revbook/revelation10.htm

Here is the quote:

"And he had in his hand a little book open." Revelation 10:2. This little book that Jesus is holding in His hand is the book of Daniel. Many believe that the whole book of Daniel was sealed, until the "time of the end" in 1798. No, that is not true, much instruction was used in that book by the wise men bringing gifts to the young child Jesus. "The book that was sealed is not Revelation, but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel relating to the last days." Acts of the Apostles 585. Inspiration is telling us to look at Daniel 12 for instruction that is needed to be proclaimed during the "Loud Cry" period. "The unsealing of the little book was the message in relation to time." 7A Bible Commentary 971.

Thanks for the much needed clarification Mr. White.

Dennis

[wicklunds]

One question though Ed,

Why is it that those 1290 days and 1335-day prophecies are interpreted as literal years? I read on your website (Ed) that the daily is interpreted as the Sabbath and that from that point those two day prophecies are literal days. I am wondering why the day-year principle is discarded at that particular point and where in the SOP it says that the daily is the Sabbath. Thanks for a great study on this topic.

Dennis

[Ron Lambert]

In Daniel 12, the first of the three time prophecies presented is the "time, times, and half a time" (1260 days). Most SDAs have long made the assumption that this is the same as the "time, times, and half a time" of Daniel 7:25, which signified the 1260 literal years of the Dark Ages, 538 A.D. to 1798 A.D.

But if we look closely, with proper regard for sound exegesis, the text says in verse 6: "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" In other words, what will be the duration of "these wonders." The expression "these wonders" can only refer to the wonders of verses 1-3, where Michael stands up, the time of trouble comes, nad ultimately the special resurrection takes place and the righteous shine as the stars. The expression "these wonders" cannot by any stretch of logic refer to the entirely of the vision by the Tigris River, from Daniel 11:2 onward, because most of Daniel 11 merely records the usual pageant of human strife and stiving, plotting and warring as empire supplants empire, that has been going on for virtually all of recorded human history. Anyone who would characterize these things as "wonders" must not have been paying attention in history class.

Exegetically, the 1260 days of Daniel 12:6 can only refer to the true wonders of Daniel 12:1-3, therefore this 1260 day prophetic period can only refer to the duration of the Judgment of the living and final conflict, from the beginning of the final test coming to all the world, to its termination at the deliverance of the saints. No other interpretation is exegetically sound.

In this context, the 1290 days and 1335 days must also refer to the time of the end. The 1335 days begins with an event that sounds very much like the time when the "woman" of Revelation 17 begins riding the beast, since that is when the system is set up that Revelation 17:5 says results in abominations (compare Daniel 12:11). Since no other starting point is mentioned, this must also serve as the starting point for the 1290 days.

Since the 1260 days end when "all these things shall be finished" and the 1335 days ends with a great blessing for those who live to see it, this indicates that the 1260 days and 1335 days end at the same point.

In other words, the 1335 days and 1290 days begins 75 days before the start of the Judgment of the Living and the setting up of the Image to the Beast by which the world is to be judged. Or stated most simply, the corrupt church in Europe comes to dominate the European "beast" power first, then 75 days later the Sunday Law will be enacted in the United States.

At the end of the 1290 days the "heads" of the European best will turn on the church and consume it, in accord with Revelation 17:16, 17. Persecution of the saints will not cease with the fall of the corrupt church (spiritual Babylon), but will be continued by the nations that comprise the beast for another 45 days, until the saints are delivered at the end of the 1335 days.

[DaveM1936]

I have studied these time periods of Dan 12 several times. I also have concluded that they refer to the very last events of earth's history. I appreciate your insights. I have never thought of these ideas before. I had already concluded that they were not literal years but rather actual days.

Most future prophecies are not understood until the time approaches for them to be fulfilled. So I decided to wait. I figured someone would be given the correct interpretation. With events occuring right now in the world and our country, I realized that the end time was very close.

This makes me search my own heart. I want to be connected with Jesus constantly as the wise virgins were. For me, the real question is: Am I ready to face these events? I am grateful for what God has already done in me. But more work needs to be done. I trust that He has not brought me this far to abandon me now.

Dan 12:11-12: "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. (NIV)

Historically, the abolished of the daily sacrifice was the church placing priests, saints, Mary, etc between the sinner and Jesus. A repentent sinner no longer had direct access to Christ. In Matthew 24, the desolating abomination was the entering into the temple of Roman troops.

In the end, the same application applies. It will be 1290 days between the forbidding of anyone by law to worship God as he sees fit until the time that the government's troops close down the churches.

I never understood how the 1290 days and 1335 days related to each other.

I think this passage applies here:

Matt 24:12-13: Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. (NIV)

While this has a historical application, it has a special application to the last days. The ones who make it through the 1290 days are encouraged to hold on to their faith and beleifs. They are to have patience in waiting for their deliverence.

Rev 14:9-12

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand,

10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus. (NIV)

This message is to be repeated (see Rev 18). The giving of this message will create a time of peril for the believers. As God's law is abolished by law, they will continue to be loyal to God and His Word. They will need to endure during this time with patience. Here the word patience means cheerful or hopeful endurance.

I also see that you have come to the same conclusions on Rev 17 as I did years ago.

Again, thanks for you insights.

Your friend,

Dave M

[Guest]

Quote:

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One question though Ed,

Why is it that those 1290 days and 1335-day prophecies are interpreted as literal years? I read on your website (Ed) that the daily is interpreted as the Sabbath and that from that point those two day prophecies are literal days. I am wondering why the day-year principle is discarded at that particular point and where in the SOP it says that the daily is the Sabbath. Thanks for a great study on this topic.

Dennis

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Dennis any time you are reading in the bible with a time element and you know it is AFTER 1844, then that TIME ELEMENT is literal time!!! Ask those that twist the plain word of God why they refuse to place the "Day for a Year" principle on the 1000 years of Revelation 20.

Don't be side tracked from your study of bible by those clinging to old error. The Judgement of the living was introduce here that is a wonderful subject, but read it on the "End Time Events Thread" where documentation is given, not from what is suggested above. This is a rabbit trail diversion introduced by Robert Brindsmead years ago. The frim grasp that error has on people is that if a lie is believed and put into print & practiced, to THEM it become a truth. NO WAY, Error never becomes truth by repetious telling. Claim the promise in James 5:16 every time you want to know what the bible is saying to you.

[Ron Lambert]

Ed, to my best remembrance, Robert Brinsmead never taught what I do about the time prophecies in Daniel 12. What relevance does that have, anyway? But regardless, I gave conclusive proof based on sound exegesis of the text itself that the time, times, and half a time of Daniel 12 is answering the question "how long shall it be until the end of these wonders?" (in other words, what is their duration?), and "these wonders" can only refer to the true wonders presented in Daniel 12:1-3, which closely precedes the question and answer.

As for whether Michael standing up in Daniel 12:1 is the start of the Judgment of the Living (rather than the end of it, as some teach) consider that the same verse also says that at the same time "there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time." (NKJV) This time of trouble comes when the test over the image to the beast comes to all the world. That Michael standing up does indeed speak of the Judgment is confirmed by this statement at the end of the same verse: "And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book." (NKJV) A judgment is clearly signified by the words "found written in the book."

Now, it is important is to pay attention to the question and answer in verses 6 and 7. "How long will it be until the end of these wonders?" (NASB) The answer to this is given: "a time, times, and half a time...." This works out as 1260 days, using the sacred Calendar that all Bible prophecy employs, which has 360 days in a year, and understanding that a "time" means a year. Thus we have the inescapable, definite conclusion that the 1260 day prophecy of Daniel 12:6, 7 can only refer to the duration of "these wonders" spoken of in verses 1-3, namely, the Judgment of the living and time of trouble." When this 1260 day period ends, that is when the saints are delivered and the special resurrection takes place. That is "the end" of "these wonders."

I must re-emphasize, because it is the most important consideration: this interpretation is the only one that is exegetically sound, giving proper attention to what the text actually says.

[Guest]

Ron said this. "Ed, to my best remembrance, Robert Brinsmead never taught what I do about the time prophecies in Daniel 12. What relevance does that have, anyway? But regardless, I gave conclusive proof based on sound exegesis of the text itself that the time, times, and half a time of Daniel 12 is answering the question "how long shall it be until the end of these wonders," (in other words, what is their duration), and "these wonders" can only refer to the true wonders presented in Daniel 12:1-3, which closely precedes the question and answer."

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No you are right Ron he didn't, but many publications that came to his desk contained the Daniel 12 subject taught corectly. What you say in the above paragraph is truth, keep clinging to this, but what you say in the paragraph below shows that you still need to dig deeper. Ron please look in the KJV margin of the verse 12:7 and you will plainy see that there is no 1260 days in Daniel 12. ONLY 1290 & 1335. The marginal reading of Daniel 12:7 shows that "a part" of a year is really 7 months instead of 6 months. 3 years & 7 months is 1290 days and that is when time ends by God the Father speaking [Rev. 16:17 7th trumpet] & raising the dead.