End of Time - another Surprise Ending??

[John317]

Why would the demons even remotely think that Jesus was going to send them to hell at that moment if demons knew the time line?

The Devil is a great Bible student-- meaning that he devotes much time and effort to knowing the Bible.

However, the Devil and his demons are also liars. Therefore, just because they say something in the Bible seemingly indicating that they think Jesus was going to send them to hell at that moment doesn't mean they can be trusted to be telling the truth. In Mark 1: 24, the purpose of the demons' screaming the way they did was in order to make Jesus look bad. Imagine the demons telling everyone that they know who you are. They were out to cause confusion and cause Jesus to be associated in people's minds with demonic activity. But Jesus shut them up immediately and did not allow them to control the situation. Don't you hear sarcasim and hate in their tone when they said, "Have you come to destroy us?" Of course they knew he wasn't there to destoy them at that moment. Satan was telling them that he was going to destroy Christ. They knew that Jesus was there to undergo testing as a human being.

Yet it is also true that Satan did not realize that when he killed Chrsit, he would be raised from the dead and this would eventually lead to Satan's complete destruction. So we know that God is able to keep the evil angels ignorant of the full truth of the gospel and of the prophecies.

[John317]

There are only two resurrections. The first resurrection is of those who sleep in the dust of the earth, the righteous. The second resurrection is of the dead, the wicked, who are resurrected to receive their judgment/sentence.

It is true that there are fundamentally only two resurrections, but that doesn't mean that there won't be some speical people raised at that time. Rev. 1: 7 clearly states that those who pierced (killed) Christ will be there to see Him return in glory from heaven with this millions of angels.

Rev. 1:7

Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

[ClubV12]

Dr. Rich, in building my foundation I have laid a few corner stones. EGW, as a divine messenger of God is one of them. It's a "absolute", it won't go away. All though, at times, the counsel is difficult to understand and apply, as is the bible! I do see the harmony between the two, EGW counsel and biblical counsel.

Therefore, counsel, theories and speculation that is not harmonius with God's messenger cannot be harmonius with the cannon record. This is good news, it saves me from spending a lot of time digging into theories which on their face, cannot be true. Thus, the mind is freed, the confusion lifted, I simply move on.

Those theories that are carefully cloaked in "mostly truth", mixed with some error, are more difficult to discern. Sometimes I come up muddy from digging around to deeply into those. :)

[miz3]

Yet it is also true that Satan did not realize that when he killed Chrsit, he would be raised from the dead and this would eventually lead to Satan's complete destruction. So we know that God is able to keep the evil angels ignorant of the full truth of the gospel and of the prophecies.

John317,

You might be right about this, however it seems unreal that Satan would miss Christ's repeated and very clear words concerning His death and resurrection.

Whether Satan and his demons are intelligent or not is not something I am cogent on (nor do I want to be). The only reason for my questions is because I have heard all my life how smart they are and how much of God's Words (the Bible and other utterances from God) they are more expert at than all of the human knowledge put together. Yet when I read the Bible it seems that Satan and his demons are always looking so dumb. God seems to out fox them every single time!

I would like to be more knowledgeable about God and Jesus Christ than any other "thing".

[Christopher]

Originally Posted By: John317

Yet it is also true that Satan did not realize that when he killed Chrsit, he would be raised from the dead and this would eventually lead to Satan's complete destruction. So we know that God is able to keep the evil angels ignorant of the full truth of the gospel and of the prophecies.

John317,

You might be right about this, however it seems unreal that Satan would miss Christ's repeated and very clear words concerning His death and resurrection.

Whether Satan and his demons are intelligent or not is not something I am cogent on (nor do I want to be). The only reason for my questions is because I have heard all my life how smart they are and how much of God's Words (the Bible and other utterances from God) they are more expert at than all of the human knowledge put together. Yet when I read the Bible it seems that Satan and his demons are always looking so dumb. God seems to out fox them every single time!

I would like to be more knowledgeable about God and Jesus Christ than any other "thing".

Satan knew Jesus would be resurrected as with knowing the prophecies or at least had the idea.As to intelligence,just have to look were we are today and how everyone is deceived since Jesus resurrection and how this Good News has been so distorted.

Satan was and is self-delusional denying the truth even though he more than anyone really knows the truth. the example of that will be when he shows up as the fake Jesus and will deceive the whole world into believing he is except for those who know the truth about God through the Real Jesus.

[BobRyan]

Of course he can deceive us, look at all the religions of the world.

The plan of Salvation as we know it now was not laid out in detail in the Garden of Eden, just a hint was given. And ever since the devil has been having to guess who the Messiah was. He thought maybe Moses was the Messiah and had all the babies killed. He missed over and over again. He has always been a step behind God. Even now satan doesn't know when the tribulation will start but he knows that once the rapture happens (I know...SDA's don't believe in a pre-trib rapture, but I do) he has a limited time to setup his men-in-waiting because he knows his days are numbered.

When Elijah issued the Challenge "the one that answers by fire - he is God" and all the people agreed -- God prevented Satan from causing fire to come down from heaven in the sight of men. But in Rev 13 the prediction is made that he will be able to do that.

Ellen White states that heathen deities will reveal themselves before the cities of the world.

Just exactly what fashion or form all of the "high up on the shelf" statements God gave Ellen White about the end of time, will be fulfilled - we do not know. We do know that those "high on the shalf" statements are almost never referenced (because we tend to focus more on the Sunday-laws and the Gospel going to all the world as our preferred signs.

And we do know that historically every major salvation event is accompanied by the fact that the chosen people of God were utterly surprised by the way things turned out.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Wouldn't Satan and his demons know the 2300 day prophecy and have already figured out that they had at least until 1844?

Is there some reason to think that Satan did not know that the earth would be here in 1844 by the time Daniel wrote his prophecy?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Dr. Rich, in building my foundation I have laid a few corner stones. EGW, as a divine messenger of God is one of them. It's a "absolute", it won't go away. All though, at times, the counsel is difficult to understand and apply, as is the bible! I do see the harmony between the two, EGW counsel and biblical counsel.

Therefore, counsel, theories and speculation that is not harmonius with God's messenger cannot be harmonius with the cannon record. This is good news, it saves me from spending a lot of time digging into theories which on their face, cannot be true. Thus, the mind is freed, the confusion lifted, I simply move on.

Those theories that are carefully cloaked in "mostly truth", mixed with some error, are more difficult to discern. Sometimes I come up muddy from digging around to deeply into those.

Which may not have helped you predict the rise of communism, the role of Germany in WWII, the role of nuclear reactors in 2011, the role of atomic weapons in WWII, mankind traveling to the moon, mankind sending probes out beyond our solar system, decoding DNA and the human genome, the internet.

Many dominant aspects of life today can not be mapped back to a specific prediction. "Knowledge shall be increased" accounts for electricity and the steam engine -- but it also accounts for everything else you can imagine including faster-than-light star ships (fiction) and cars that run on water. There is no limit to an "explains-all" model.

in Christ,

bob

[ClubV12]

I'm not sure I understand your point Bob? What doe the bible or EGW have to do with predicting nuclear reactors, or any number of other things, in 2011?

As to the prediction "knowledge shall increase", everyone I've talked to lately ties that directly to various mechanical or electronic type revolutions. Personally, I don't! I think it's a referrence to knowledge of the Lord increasing.

Without nailing down a specific date, the "christian knowledge increase revolution" could have begun with such folks as Luther. Moving away from the Catholic oppression, printing the bible in English, taking the good news world wide. It continued with such folks as William Miller and the "unlocking" of the meaning of 1844. It gathered substantially more steam with Ellen Whites arrival on the scene. Mechanical and electronic revolutions have been a tremendous boost in getting the message out to the world!

Spiritual knowledge would increase, that's what that prophecy is all about!

[Christopher]

I'm not sure I understand your point Bob? What doe the bible or EGW have to do with predicting nuclear reactors, or any number of other things, in 2011?

As to the prediction "knowledge shall increase", everyone I've talked to lately ties that directly to various mechanical or electronic type revolutions. Personally, I don't! I think it's a referrence to knowledge of the Lord increasing.

Without nailing down a specific date, the "christian knowledge increase revolution" could have begun with such folks as Luther. Moving away from the Catholic oppression, printing the bible in English, taking the good news world wide. It continued with such folks as William Miller and the "unlocking" of the meaning of 1844. It gathered substantially more steam with Ellen Whites arrival on the scene. Mechanical and electronic revolutions have been a tremendous boost in getting the message out to the world!

Spiritual knowledge would increase, that's what that prophecy is all about!

Amen and it will increase till Jesus comes again and then forever on, thankfully straight from the Source.

[BobRyan]

I'm not sure I understand your point Bob? What doe the bible or EGW have to do with predicting nuclear reactors, or any number of other things, in 2011?

[Dr. Rich]

God does NOT predict anything. God KNOWS what is going to happen and this is called prophecy. However, there are some prophesies that are conditional and if the condition does not happen (Dan. 9:24), the the prophecy will also not happen.

EGW and Joseph Smith (as many others) gave prophecy on things that NEVER did happen and will never happen so these prophesies are false, as did others found in the bible who gave false prophesies.

[Dr. Rich]

Interestingly, the last chapter of John has Jesus telling Peter that when he gets old he will go where he does not want to go. It also says that Jesus told Peter that if John lives until the second coming what difference would it make to Peter.

After John died, his friends found out what they first believed about Peter's death and John living to the second coming was a missinterpertation of what John wrote. So they edited what John wrote somewhat.

People today do the same thing with many prophesies because they want the bible to say what they believe--only to find that they were wrong.

[ClubV12]

I was a Mormon before I recently became an Adventist. Joseph Smith can't pass the biblical test's for a prophet, EGW can. This was a primary factor in my decision.

The two have nothing in common. J.S. says he has GREATER light than the bible, EGW points to the bible alone as the ultimate authority.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

general interest comment: Joseph Smith was shot and killed by one of my ancestors..

back to topic....

[Dr. Rich]

My ancestors helped out the Mormons back in Nebraska...to the third and fourth generation..... Ok, back it shall be.

[BobRyan]

I was a Mormon before I recently became an Adventist. Joseph Smith can't pass the biblical test's for a prophet, EGW can. This was a primary factor in my decision.

The two have nothing in common. J.S. says he has GREATER light than the bible, EGW points to the bible alone as the ultimate authority.

Amen!

in Christ,

Bob

[Johnnboy]

1 Thessalonians 5:1, 2, 5, 6 “But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.”

Paul tells us that, as children of light, that day should not overtake us as a surprise, as a thief. Christ counsels the Laodiceans to buy the eyesalve, as they are blind. If they stay in that condition, they will be surprized.

I have recently read a statement from the Seventh-day Adventist Church's Biblical Research Institute, regarding the fulfillment of prophecy. According to this statement, prophecies in Daniel and Revelation that have been fulfilled, will not have a repeat fulfillment.

But I find several statements in the Spirit of Prophecy, one regarding the two cleansings of the temple, (Daniel 8:14), Daniel 7: 10-the judgment was set and the books were opened, Daniel 11, Revelation 14-the three angels' messages, and Matthew 25- “Behold the Bridegroom cometh, go ye out to meet Him”, Revelation 13—“the entire chapter”-includes the deadly wound, the 42 months, etc., Matthew 24-the destruction of Jerusalem, along with others, that show that these prophecies have another application and will be fulfilled again.

If we choose to believe a man's interpretation through the Church, rather than believing the Word of God interpreted by His Holy Spirit, we are definitely in for a very big surprise ending.

[Gerr]

The good guys win and the bad guys lose. No surprise ending to me.

[Woody]

The good guys win and the bad guys lose. No surprise ending to me.

No YES -

[Dr. Rich]

Johnnboy, your point is well taken and one that the SDA leaders have ignored. I will tell you flat out that NO---the time of trouble has NOT yet begun and NONE of what EGW said and wrote about it is true. They have refused to use the eye salve because they honestly believe they are in need of nothing.

They have become deceived because of their refusal to ignore everyone's words other than the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses as is the test for truth. (John 14:26 and 17:17-20) (Rev. 2:2 and 2:18-25)

[ClubV12]

Dr. Rich says, "...NONE of what EGW said and wrote about it is true."

All of what EGW had to say and write about the subject is true.

[Dr. Rich]

ClubV12, Answer these questions: Can Jesus come at any time? Can anyone do anything to change this time? Has the time of trouble started already? Has the 144,000 been sealed by God already? Have the "Two Witnesses" testified already and did they get killed and lie in the streets of "the Great City"? Did the people of the nations of the world look at their dead bodies lying in the street for 3 and a half days?

Has a third of the earth, trees and grass ever been burned up? And has a third of the sea becomes blood yet? And did a third of the sea creatures die and a third of the ships become destroyed yet? And has the key been given to Satan to open up the bottomless pit yet?

And the big question: Has a third of the human population ever die with plagues and fire and smoke and brimstone? If so can you please provide the evidence for this and show us where an army of 200,000,000 can be found?

If you can do this, then you MIGHT be able to claim that EGW did not lie.

[ClubV12]

For me, the question is not specifically about when Jesus will come. The question is when is my personal "time up"? Recently a fellow in our church was killed in a motorcycle accident, for him, "times up". While I study to prepare for what's ahead, I recognize my need for a closer connection with Christ TODAY. Because, stuff happens and you know not the time or the hour when it may.

[BobRyan]

Dr. Rich says, "...NONE of what EGW said and wrote about it is true."

Those who think that Rich is inspired by God to make that claim (as well as a host of other "Bible is wrong" claims) are free to "follow him" if they choose.

God has created a free will system and we may each one choose to follow God or follow the fables of man.

According to Matt 24 - we are only going to see more and more of that kind of thing as we near the end of time.

in Christ,

Bob