End of Time - another Surprise Ending??

[BobRyan]

The good guys win and the bad guys lose. No surprise ending to me.

That is also true of the suprise ending that the disciples faced at the cross, and that the millerites faced on Oct 23, 1844 -- good won, bad guys lost -- yet the saints were somewhat surprised by the details.

in Christ,

Bob

[phkrause]

Those who think that Rich is inspired by God to make that claim (as well as a host of other "Bible is wrong" claims) are free to "follow him" if they choose.

God has created a free will system and we may each one choose to follow God or follow the fables of man.

According to Matt 24 - we are only going to see more and more of that kind of thing as we near the end of time.

in Christ,

Bob

[Dr. Rich]

Hey BobR, Dr. Rich does NOT need to be inspired by God to overcome sin and become righteous. That is a choice one can make on their own. Neither does it take being inspired by God to read page 433 of the Great Controversey and see that the god giving the writer her vision(s) was wrong. All it takes is to be honest with ones self. Jesus said blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an un-pardonable sin. (Matt.12:31-32) That my friend is serious stuff! Therefore, saying that the Holy Spirit inspired someone when the Holy Spirit did not in-fact do the inspiration, is saying that the Holy Spirit did something that the Holy Spirit did not do. This is saying that the Holy Spirit is lying. It is also a violation of the ten commandments.

And yes, Jesus did warn us that there would be less law abiding people (meaning not keeping all of the ten commandments) in the last days. Paul's words have caused, (not everyone of course), many to give up keeping the ten commandments as I would assume most here on this blog would agree with. He did teach lawlessness, so why would it be necessary to use Paul as any authority to build one's foundation of belief upon? Same goes for EGW because she said the Paul was the greatest of all apostles.

But more imporantly BobR., I don't give a hoot who wants to 'follow' me or not as I am not one to follow after. I want people to use their own brain and follow after the ONE teacher as Matthew 23:8-10 and Jn.10:16 states.

In fact, NO WHERE will you find anyplace where Jesus said anything about establishing teachers, leaders, pastors, evangelists or any other postition in a church. This comes from Paul's writings in 1Cor. 12:28, Eph. 4:11, 1Tim. 2:7 (Paul lied here when he said he was appointed these positions by Christ) and 2Tim. 1:11. I might note that it was because of this that even Uriah Smith was quoted of saying that when the 'Adventists' establish a church with leaders, pastors, teachers and evangelists, that they will have become just as evil as the Catholics. Hmmmmm? Is not this the truth? How can one person truthfully be apointed over anyone else? To my educated understanding, Paul's words are the number one enemy of the real truth.

Now read 1Cor. 15:3-8 and please try to find ANY evidence from the words of Jesus that any of this is true!???

[BobRyan]

The good guys win and the bad guys lose. No surprise ending to me.

[cheddar]

I don’t think that Dr. Rich is inspired but I agree with some of his prophetic ideas. Take Matt. 24 for example. The generally accepted belief is that this prophecy stretches out from 70 AD all the way into the end-time period. Matt. 24 is a short concise description of the end of the world. Jesus was answering the question ‘what shall be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world?’ He wasn’t mingling the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world. He said in all 3 accounts (Matt, Mark, Luke), that this generation shall not pass away until all these things be fulfilled. The all includes the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. How many generations have passed since 70 AD? A lot more than one! Jerusalem and the temple are going to be rebuilt in the last days. There are too many verses that talk about it and not just the ones in Matt. 24.

[skyblue888]

Can Jesus come at any time?

No, He cannot come at any time.

Can anyone do anything to change this time? 2 Peter 3:12 says that we can hasten His coming. We can hasten or delay it. In fact we have delayed it for more than 160 years, since 1844. See The Great Controversy, pp.457,458.

Has the time of trouble started already? No it has not. There is the little time of trouble before probation closes and there is the great time of trouble after probation has closed.

Has the 144,000 been sealed by God already? No they have not. That seal is the final seal and that final seal will be affixed only on those who successfully pass the great final test just before probation closes. Only those who pass this great final test can pass the scrutiny of the judgment of the living.

Have the "Two Witnesses" testified already and did they get killed and lie in the streets of "the Great City"? Did the people of the nations of the world look at their dead bodies lying in the street for 3 and a half days? Yes the "two witnesses," the Old and the New Testaments did prophesy clothed in sackcloth for 1260 years and were "killed" in the streets of France (spiritually called Sodom and Egypt) at the time of the French Revolution. For three and half years the people of France especially in Paris burned their Bibles in the streets and danced around the fire. These days were prophetic days, one day equals a year.

Has a third of the earth, trees and grass ever been burned up? And has a third of the sea becomes blood yet? Are you talking about the plagues here or the trumpets? And did a third of the sea creatures die and a third of the ships become destroyed yet? And has the key been given to Satan to open up the bottomless pit yet? Please give the Scripture references and then we can discuss this.

And the big question: Has a third of the human population ever die with plagues and fire and smoke and brimstone? If so can you please provide the evidence for this and show us where an army of 200,000,000 can be found?

This is the sixth trumpet. That trumpet refers to the judgments that fell upon papal Rome (the Catholic countries of Europe) at the hand of the Turks (Muslim) for having rejected the Reformation and for having persecuted the Reformers. It was fulfilled between 1449 and 1840, 391 years of wars which is equivalent to "an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, to slay the third part of men; and the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand; and I heard the number of them." Rev.9:15,16.

This is prophetic time. One prophetic hour equals 15 literal days + one prophetic day which equals one literal year + on prophetic month which equals 30 literal years + one prophetic year which equals 360 literal years. Adding these numbers 360 + 30 + 1 + 15 days equals 391 literal years and 15 days.

This trumpet ended on the 11th of August 1840 as predicted.

"In the year 1840 another remarkable fulfillment of prophecy excited widespread interest. Two years before, Josiah Litch, one of the leading ministers preaching the second advent, published an exposition of Revelation 9, predicting the fall of the Ottoman empire. According to his calculations, this power was to be overthrown 'in A.D.1840, sometime in the month of August;' and only a few days previous to its accomplishment he wrote: 'Allowing the first period, 150 years, to have been exactly fulfilled before Deacozes ascended the throne by permission of the Turks, and that the 391 years, fifteen days, commenced at the close of the first period, (fourth trumpet), it will end on the 11th of August, 1840, when the Ottoman power in Constantinople may be expected to be broken. And this, I believe, will be found to be the case.'

At the very time specified, Turkey, through her ambassadors, accepted the protection of the allied powers of Europe, and thus placed herself under the control of Christian nations. The event exactly fulfilled the prediction. When it became known, multitudes were convinced of the correctness of the principles of prophetic interpretation adopted by William Miller and his associates, and a wonderful impetus was given to the advent movement. Men of learning and position united with Miller, both in preaching and in publishing his views, and from 1840 to 1844 the work rapidly extended." The Great Controversy, p.334,335.

sky

[Dr. Rich]

Sky, come on man, don't make me laugh! Asking for verses about God giving Satan the key to the abyss clearly shows us that you have no clue to the prophesies found in Daniel and Revelation.

By using the words of others, including EGW, who are long dead is a violation of one of the rules God gave us in regards to understanding end time prophecy. (Dan. 12:10)

You, my friend, are in for a huge surprise!

[skyblue888]

Time will tell as to who is setting himself up for a huge surprise!

sky

I asked you for Scriptures because there are similar words describing the trumpets and the plagues and the words of Rev.11.

[cheddar]

Did you know what happened to Josiah Litch later on in his life? He renounced his historical beliefs and in particular his Ottoman Empire interpretation and soon after Ellen White and the brethren renounced him!

[Parade Orange]

perhaps this is a better thread to ask my question regarding end time surprises!

there are more muslim countries and peoples and other beliefs,cultures,dogma, and religions than christian in our world today

WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN IN ORDER FOR THE WORLD TO BOW OR YIELD TO A 'CHRISTIAN' GOD?

you know! THE WORLD WILL WONDER AFTER THE BEAST AND THE SUNDAY LAW THING

does anybody want to take a crack at that?

[ClubV12]

Sunday worship does not have to be based on christian beliefs. As far as I know the Muslims do not have a strictly defined day of worship right now. On Fridays the men are expected to show up at the local Mosque for prayers and such, but they are not commanded to do so. The women have no obligations to any particular day. So, in a "spirit of unity" with the rest of the world, or the Catholic church, they could declare Sunday as their official worship day without much inconvience. While "we" speak of Sunday worship as the supreme "test", for many in the world it will be nothing more than a reasonable and logical choice. Not so much a "test", but just the natural flow of things, another law. Like shopping or washing the car or going to the mall, oops, can't go to the mall on Sunday now! A minor inconvience at best for most of them, but they may not even connect the concept of Sunday to a "test".

Muslims would certainly be opposed to Saturday because of the Jewish connection. Sunday is a natural fit for most of the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Ok Sky, Check out Rev. 9. The fifth trumpet is when the keys to the abyss are given to Satan to let himself out along with all of the demons. Now they can appear physically as they did prior to the resurection of Jesus.

Notice that they can't touch those who have been sealed by God. This goes on for the last five months of this earth's history. All this time they try to kill the Holy People along with the two live human witnesses.

You can view our web site if you need more information in regards to the truth of Revelation's prophesies.

[Parade Orange]

thanku CLUBV12 for answering that question

but its not addressing the deep picture

i use muslem as an example

there are other sects,religions, and gods people worship with a small 'g'

what has to happen to jar people deep core belief system or non belief system for entire civilizations and peoples drom all walks of life to embrace a total parigm shift to even consider going outside their understandings and cultures to act on something so different

its sounds like a snap of the fingers in our minds cause we are of western mindset and judean/christian world

this is a very good thread for really thinking about A SURPRISE to us and the WORLD

thanku for sharing with me

anyone else want to go deeper?

[ClubV12]

I'd go deeper, but I get muddy... :)

[Parade Orange]

[Dr. Rich]

It's not about a surprise ending, its about what is going to happen when the shaking starts. This is ONLY for the SDA church--it is not for the rest of the world.

[Parade Orange]

hi DR RICH!

for the world to keep sunday it will be a surprise considering most dont keep sunday

what starts the shaking?

what do u know that we dont

or what do u see that we dont

or what do u believe that we dont

or what does the bible say that most SDA's dont hold to?

[cheddar]

We know that Satan is going to come and impersonate Jesus, so it wouldn't be very hard for him to send one his angels to impersonate Mohammad. The muslims would definitely follow him.

[BobRyan]

i use muslem as an example

there are other sects,religions, and gods people worship with a small 'g'

what has to happen to jar people deep core belief system or non belief system for entire civilizations and peoples drom all walks of life to embrace a total parigm shift to even consider going outside their understandings and cultures to act on something so different

its sounds like a snap of the fingers in our minds cause we are of western mindset and judean/christian world

this is a very good thread for really thinking about A SURPRISE to us and the WORLD

thanku for sharing with me

anyone else want to go deeper?

Take a look at this thread -

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post447086

It provides an interesting possibility for just how all mankind, all religions, secular, atheist etc could be swept into a single coordinated agenda -- in a very short time.

in Christ,

Bob

[Dr. Rich]

hi DR RICH!

for the world to keep sunday it will be a surprise considering most dont keep sunday

what starts the shaking?

what do u know that we dont

or what do u see that we dont

or what do u believe that we dont

or what does the bible say that most SDA's dont hold to?

The shaking will be over truth verses lies. You are getting a jump on that right now from my postings. The ONE found in Matt. 24:45 will be presenting the real truth which is the words of Jesus Christ. The truth will come from the words of Jesus by the 144k and you can guess where all of the lies come from. People will have to cut off the wick of lies (what EGW and Paul said that are not truth) in order to become righteous. It is that simple!

One of the lies that will have to be given up is the NSL. There will NEVER be any national sunday law. But there will be martial law and the constitution for the US will be destroyed.

The group found in Rev. 12:17 fight a battle between lies and truth. It is just that simple!

[Parade Orange]

DR RICH ty for answering my question

and BobRyan ty for the thread

[BobRyan]

People will have to cut off the wick of lies (what EGW and Paul said that are not truth) in order to become righteous. It is that simple!

When you see someone claiming that the Bible is "lies" as you see in the post above - that is your clue that the sinful nature is indeed tuned to darkness when separated from the light of God's Word - that coming into the world "enlightens every one of mankind" John 1.

In this thread - I suggest we open our minds to the world around us and the fact that the signs and lying wonders of Satan may have an "updated" plan when it somes to implementing a form of spiritualism that takes all the world into its net.

Some see this as "yet another opportunity" to accuse the Bible of lying as we see in that comment above.

How sad.

in Christ,

Bob

[skyblue888]

parade, I would like to invite you to my website www.hidden-treasures.ca you will see two booklets titled The Order Of Last Day Events... these two booklets deal with the Sunday Law issue and shows in details how it will happen, how it will spread to all the world. Just click on the covers et le tour est joué.

Happy reading.

sky

[Parade Orange]

ty SKYBLUE

i will do

:)

[cheddar]

Prophecy is not a salvational issue. It has no power to cause anyone to be saved or lost. So there shouldn't be any problem with discussing different points of view. I mentioned that footnote about Josiah Litch because in the early days people used to get kicked out just because they didn't see some beast the exact same way as someone else.

That's stupid.