Bin Laden is Dead....

[Sonny]

Yes , I would. Weren't there "approved" assassinations in the Bible or at least stories centering around them?

God and Human Rebellion

Where did Israel first obtain weapons? God had not so equipped them, according to the record. If they chose to be a military nation in spite of God's wish to protect them in His own way, would He not then have rejected them? Do we have a Biblical example showing what God might do under such circumstances?

It takes little thought to find such an example in the later history of the nation. Although God never intended Israel to have a visible king, He did not reject them when they claimed one. And their motive for this perfidy? "That we may be like all the nations" (1 Samuel 8:19). God warned them of the results of their choice, but He did not reject them for it. Did they, early on, desire to wage war "like" the Egyptians?

But in the case of their choosing a king, God expressed His disapproval. Do we have a Biblical example where humans defied God's ideal will without His expressing disapproval and also without rejecting them for it? Yes. In their practice of slavery and polygamy, which most Christians now agree were not in God's original plan.

Polygamy was so common among God's people in the Old Testament, examples need not be cited. Again, they thought to be "like" the surrounding nations, even though they knew God's perfect will for monogamous marriage had been beautifully expressed in the beginning (Genesis 2:20-24). But they chose to focus on their visible neighbors rather than on the invisible God, and beholding changed them into the same image (2 Corinthians 3:18). But nowhere do we find God railing against polygamy, although Christians today, with few exceptions, see the wrong of it.

The same could be said for slavery. The case against slavery rests upon God's commitment to the freedom and free will of His creatures. Both slavery and polygamy were God's permitted will for an antique age, never His ideal.

Could the Israelites themselves have chosen a military defense against God's ideal will, without His rejecting them for it, and also without Bible comment? The standard of Christ's character and three Biblical examples answer, Yes.

[Light On the Dark Side of God]

[Bravus]

A friend on another forum said this, which made sense to me:

Quote:

Thus far, I've heard the killing of Osama called an "execution" and an "assassination." It was neither. An execution is putting to death a person who has been condemned to that fate by a court. The person is not executed, it is the sentence of the court that is put into execution. Assassination is the targeted killing of a head of state, or an important state personage. Osama was the head of no state. He was not an official of any state. What happened was this: An enemy combatant was killed. Osama said openly that he was a jihadist at war with the West. Warriors die at their enemy's hands. Been that way since Homer, maybe longer. If you don't want to be killed, don't go declaring war on people and killing them.

[ClubV12]

"If you don't want to be killed, don't go declaring war on people and killing them."

Well there it is Bravus, thats what I've been saying. In Bin Ladens case, all he had to do was put down his weapon and surrender. He chose to engage in a fire fight and was killed in the exchange, hardly an execution or assasination, it was just "TCB" on both sides.

[Gordon1]

A blind assasination. How can this be justified? Shoot first, then check identity later? Bring down multiple civilians as collateral damage? Would this be ok on American soil?

No, President Obama made a mistake:This is not justice according to the rule of law, this is vigilante justice. It violates democratic principles.

Legally this story is full of holes. The invading SEALS are foreign soldiers in Pakistan, not sanctioned law officers. Osama required a proper trial. There is no proof of his guilt without evidence. Even the FBI did not consider him a wanted man. The law requires that a man be allowed to face his accusers and the evidence against him. We have no proof he was involved in 9/11 - only media hype. And the body should have been held for positive family identification and autopsy. Instead evidence was destroyed. And was he an active combattant or retired?

But since Osama may have died years ago, this may have been an opportunistic political stunt on the eve of the Canadian federal election, or for other reasons.

[Bravus]

Wrong on so many points, my friend.

Where's your evidence of any civilian casualties?

There was clear evidence dating back to last August that this was Osama and it was thoroughly checked out.

I agree that a trial would have been ideal: but sometimes catching someone alive in a firefight is a tough ask.

Islamic law requires the body to be buried within 24 hours. He's already got the potential to be a martyr: doing what would be seen as desecrating the body would only exacerbate that.

And, just quietly, I think you over-estimate the importance of Canada in American foreign policy.

Look, I'm not fan of America and its military, but the truth is important.

[tribeofjudah]

"If you don't want to be killed, don't go declaring war on people and killing them."

Well there it is Bravus, thats what I've been saying. In Bin Ladens case, all he had to do was put down his weapon and surrender. He chose to engage in a fire fight and was killed in the exchange, hardly an execution or assasination, it was just "TCB" on both sides.

As I read on Reuters per a US Official: If UBL would have held up a white flag, they would have had to follow the ROE (rules of engagement) and allowed his surrender.

But alas....he is gone, next: the Judgement of God Almighty.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-kill-idUSTRE74151S20110502

[CoAspen]

A trial? No, much better this way, one can imagine the never ending world wide hoopla that would have gone on and on...never ending.Time for the squeamish to get over it, it was done the best way for all. The stated purpose according to the talking heads on CNN, was to kill him, not capture.

Those into conspiracies will never give up, that is their lifes blood.

Live by the sword, die by the sword!

Next subject!!

[Dr. Shane]

There was clear evidence dating back to last August that this was Obama and it was thoroughly checked out.

Slip of the tongue.... uh... finger?

[Bravus]

D'oh! I FOX-NEWSed it!

Thanks, will fix it.

[Bravus]

I think my brain was thinking that it was Obama who was *given* the intel in August.

[fccool]

That picture that many US media outlets just run with is fake. Whether he's dead or not, what changes? The violence cycle goes on uninterrupted.

[skyblue888]

How can we be sure that it was Bin Laden who was killed in that raid? where is the evidence?

[Amelia]

WARNING:contains graphic images

Osama bin Laden corpse photo is fake

Image of bloodied man picked up by British newspapers has been circulating online for two years

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake

[ClubV12]

Sky, the most recent report I've seen says the DNA tests results are already in. 99% sure it was indeed Bin Laden.

The question that led me to was: Is it possible to get DNA test results back so quickly? It always seems to take weeks in even the most profoud cases, for some reason. If it's possible to get results so quickly they really burned the midnight oil in this case!

[Amelia]

US used 'multiple methods' to identify Osama's body

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/us-used-multiple-methods-to-identify-osamas-body-103013

Osama Bin Laden: Relatives' DNA Reliable Indication of Death of Public Enemy No. 1

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/os...ory?id=13510123

[John317]

It was him, and there will be plenty of proof in the coming days.

[tribeofjudah]

I had a previous "theory" that this compound was like a prison compound of sorts....a holding BIN for Bin Laden, if you will.

Interesting support for my "views"....

Retired Army Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters on tv (my paraphrase):

1. The Pakistanis knew UBL was in the compound. He was NOT free to leave. They housed him there and would "use" him at their convenience and if he stayed put, they would protect him. So much for protection.

2. the Seals destroyed the downed chopper NOT to keep it from the Taliban....but to keep the Pakistanis from sharing it with their BEST friends the Chinese, who would have used reverse engineering to copy USA technology

3. practice makes perfect: Navy Seals and other Spec. Ops were near flawless in their mission.

[John317]

You and Lt. Col. Peters may be right, in which case there will be even more certainty that it was bin Laden. I'm fairly certain, too, that eventually there will be pictures of his body released. It seems like they would have had bin Laden's fingerpirnts as well, and unquestionably they made fingerprints of the corpse before dropping it into the sea.

[tribeofjudah]

We the public are not privy to "classified" info.

Sorry I posted thread in the wrong section. Still getting the hang of this.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Even the FBI did not consider him a wanted man.

Best to check the facts before making statements such as the one above. Bin Laden was #1 on the FBI's Most Wanted list.

FBI website

So now...you can shake the hand that shook the hand of J. Edgar Hoover.

[John317]

No problem. :-)

[tribeofjudah]

Originally Posted By: Gordon1

Even the FBI did not consider him a wanted man.

Best to check the facts before making statements such as the one above. Bin Laden was #1 on the FBI's Most Wanted list.

FBI website

So now...you can shake the hand that shook the hand of J. Edgar Hoover.

Yeah, I also thought that was a strange comment by Gordon

[aldona]

We the public are not privy to "classified" info.

If we wait long enough, there is this really great organisation called Wikileaks...

AJ

[abelisle]

If any of you have read Tom Clancy's latest novel Dead or Alive, one can't help but noticing interesting parallels between Osama and the main character "the Emir", especially with the character living near an urban area in plain sight.

I've been told by a friend who was in military intelligence that it is commonplace for "favorited" authors(and in one case a cartoonist who portrayed a secret fighter plane in his comic strip)) to be given snippets of intelligence to see how they run with it.

Alex

[LifeHiscost]

A blind assasination. How can this be justified? Shoot first, then check identity later? Bring down multiple civilians as collateral damage? Would this be ok on American soil?

No, President Obama made a mistake:This is not justice according to the rule of law, this is vigilante justice. It violates democratic principles.

Legally this story is full of holes. The invading SEALS are foreign soldiers in Pakistan, not sanctioned law officers. Osama required a proper trial. There is no proof of his guilt without evidence. Even the FBI did not consider him a wanted man. The law requires that a man be allowed to face his accusers and the evidence against him. We have no proof he was involved in 9/11 - only media hype. And the body should have been held for positive family identification and autopsy. Instead evidence was destroyed. And was he an active combattant or retired?

But since Osama may have died years ago, this may have been an opportunistic political stunt on the eve of the Canadian federal election, or for other reasons.