Woody Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 "And don't you give a rap any more what 'Sister White Said' —'Sister White said this,' and 'Sister White said that,' and 'Sister White said the other thing'. But say, 'Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.'" Ellen White in the Spalding and Magan Collection May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 "Do not quote my words again as long as you live UNTIL you can obey the Bible." Seems pretty clear to me, I don't see the issue here. If you aren't in harmony and living up to the biblical standards I would say you have no business quoting either source. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Ellen White affirmed "the peccability of Christ", which is irreconcilable with Scripture... ...As well as the ancient Christian Creed which systematizes Scripture. ...A theological affirmation of a Peccable Christ is irreconcilable with the Doctrine of the Trinity. In the other thread about the Nicene Creed it was demonstrated Ellen also promulgated the alien concept... ...That God ( as in The Father )has always had a body of "FLESH". ...And that preIncarnate Christ and Lucifer also had a body of "FLESH". Therefore; the reason "why SDAs Reject the Historic Creeds" is simply that a denomination can't have it's members... ...Recite publically theological affirmations - which paradox the Denominations own theological rubrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 As a church, ought we to be better acquainted with the Bible? Yes, of course. But does that mean that we ought to set Ellen White aside and and read only the Bible? No. In fact, we ought to be more diligent studends of both, and put both into practice Agreed! I am intentionally using my language because I believe our Church is in grave danger. I want to prod us to higher ground. I see SDA who only want a "sweet smelling" gospel that makes everyone "feel good". The Bible is certainly a "sweet smell" when "RIGHTLY" studied. I however find a Church that does not want to confront its sins and but only wants to paper over its problems of both a corporate nature and an individual nature. How can God bless us as long as we only play being "CHRISTIAN" instead of studying and being on our knees. The same goes for Ellen White, we want only the sweet smell. Most SDA don't really know what they believe and are not able to hold up under the withering fire of those who seek to destroy us. That is why I push so hard and so harshly. I want to know that what I believe is able to stand. We have to be reasonable because nobody can prove absolutely everything but we at least ought to give a credible effort and not be sloppy, slipshod, or make unreal and unreasonable explanations for our beliefs. I think too many SDA are just weak sheep waiting to picked off. They may be stubborn but they must also be credible. Jesus Christ was! His disciples were too (after the resurrection)! I think the SDA Church has become too fat and lazy in my opinion. They think the "scholars" and the "leaders" will do it. My friends if that were true God would not chosen 12 uneducated fisherman. He would not have chosen Ellen White either. With some exceptions God chose the weak in which to make His glory shine bright. That means all of us, not just a few "super flies". I am not just pushing SDA but I push myself as well. No I am not perfect. No I don't know everything. No I don't have everything down pat. But I am seeking God in His Word all the time so as to know Him and His Kingdom better and better. I want other SDA to do the same. I'm venting and need to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 Quote: Please explain. That statement of your's needs balance. She DID state that people would quote her to much. "Do not repeat what I have said, saying, "Sister White said this," and "Sister White said that." Find out what the Lord God of Israel says, and then do what He commands. Christ said, "I must work the works of him that sent Me." The Father and the Son are united. Will you [during this] morning address consecrate yourselves to God? {13MR 248.1} Sure. She said not to quote her unless we are studying the Bible and doing what it says, but she doesn't say not to study her or quote her. It seems to me that her words are more about what some people were already doing rather than what they will do. She makes no prediction that this will happen a lot just before Christ returns. She does predict, however, that there will be a Satantic hatred against her writings before Christ returns. Elsewhere she calls it a move to make of none effect the Testimonies of the Spirit of God. We have definitely seen that taking place. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 Ellen White affirmed "the peccability of Christ", which is irreconcilable with Scripture... Give the quote here please. Where does she say this? She certainly does not use those words. So what words does she use to "affirm" what you claim? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 OK, so what you evidently want to see is the SDA church-- your church, I presume-- obeying the Bible more and also studying and following Ellen White a lot more than we are now. You want to see us climbing high and higher spiritually, showing greater love for one another as Christ taught us to, being more of one mind. I can certainly agree with you on this. We're on the same page. Good to have you aboard. :-) John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 ...In the other thread about the Nicene Creed it was demonstrated Ellen also promulgated the alien concept......That God ( as in The Father )has always had a body of "FLESH". ...And that preIncarnate Christ and Lucifer also had a body of "FLESH". Please quote where she says that the Father has a body of "FLESH" and also where she says that the pre-incarnate Christ had a body of "FLESH." You are right that she did write in EW that she was shown in vision Lucifer's "FLESH." John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Speaking for miz3 I associate with Woody's comments and the Ellen White quotes he quoted. That however does not mean we are to go out and burn all her communications. That would be stupid! Ellen White is absolutely spot on: Know the Bible intimately first then you will understand Ellen White the way God intends for us to understand and respect the communications of His Prophet, Ellen White. Unfortunately, my experience in the SDA Church shows me that we are way too dependent on what Ellen White said (and in my view they get this wrong too), and know too little what the Bible says. They are doing things exactly backward. SDA in general put the cart before the horse. This creates a weak Christian. Thank you Woody! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Quote: No I am not perfect. Yes. But some SDAs feel that those of us now in the end times ... MUST be perfect. So in their thinking - if you were to die today and not be perfect - you would not have the assurance of salvation. Sad theology. I agree. But some SDAs teach this. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Let me get this right - You say: "She said not to quote her ... but she doesn't say not to study her or quote her." I may be dense - but my head is swimming. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 ... understand and respect the communications of His Prophet, Ellen White. I assume then that you do believe firmly that Ellen White was a genuine prophet of God. That's good to know. I must say that I wasn't sure there for a while. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 OK, so what you evidently want to see is the SDA church-- your church, I presume-- obeying the Bible more and also studying and following Ellen White a lot more than we are now. You want to see us climbing high and higher spiritually, showing greater love for one another as Christ taught us to, being more of one mind. I can certainly agree with you on this. We're on the same page. Good to have you aboard. :-) Spot on! View my questions and my pressing words in that light. I do intend the lessons learned by my questions and pressings not only to be learned by others as if I am a teacher with nothing to learn. Oh, No! The lessons are for me too, to learn! I am in the same boat as you all are. I am just pushing the envelop. I hope others push me too. That way pushing together we both get stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Speaking for miz3 I associate with Woody's comments and the Ellen White quotes he quoted. That however does not mean we are to go out and burn all her communications. That would be stupid! Ellen White is absolutely spot on: Know the Bible intimately first then you will understand Ellen White the way God intends for us to understand and respect the communications of His Prophet, Ellen White. Unfortunately, my experience in the SDA Church shows me that we are way too dependent on what Ellen White said (and in my view they get this wrong too), and know too little what the Bible says. They are doing things exactly backward. SDA in general put the cart before the horse. This creates a weak Christian. Thank you Woody! Amen. You are spot on. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 Let me get this right - You say: "She said not to quote her ... but she doesn't say not to study her or quote her." I may be dense - but my head is swimming. I.E., she said not to quote under certain circumstances, but she doesn't say not to study her or quote her period. In other words, her statement should not be understood to mean that no one should quote her. That's often the way it seems to be used, and, ironically, by people who cherry pick both the Bible and the SOP. I'm sure she would have said the same about the Bible. We shouldn't be quoting the Bible to people just ot make a favorite point while we are living in direct violation of its most common teachings. It would be like someone regularly paying a prostitute for sex but quoting verses to her to prove that fornication is a sin. Does this ever happen? Uh-huh. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 fabrication avoidance These are just two words that come to my mind. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 I do intend the lessons learned by my questions and pressings not only to be learned by others as if I am a teacher with nothing to learn. Oh, No! The lessons are for me too, to learn! I am in the same boat as you all are. I am just pushing the envelop. I hope others push me too. That way pushing together we both get stronger. Here is what Gustave wrote: Originally Posted By: Gustave ...In the other thread about the Nicene Creed it was demonstrated Ellen also promulgated the alien concept......That God ( as in The Father )has always had a body of "FLESH". ...And that preIncarnate Christ and Lucifer also had a body of "FLESH". Do you agree with him? Is this what you understand Ellen White to have written-- that the Father has a body of flesh and that the pre-incarnate Christ had a body of flesh? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 Here's the point: Did Ellen White prohibit people from quoting her? Or does her statement have to to do with conditions under which people ought not to be quoting her? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 I may be dense - but my head is swimming. No, you are not dense. Be sure to follow your head into the water. You don't want it to swim alone. :-) John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Here's the point: Did Ellen White prohibit people from quoting her? Or does her statement have to to do with conditions under which people ought not to be quoting her? Here's the bottom line: Did EGW prohibit people from quoting her? Yes Did she have conditions for it? Yes but the conditions mean that the ban or prohibition applies to ALL. "Don’t . . . ever quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible” (SpM 167). I don't obey the Bible and neither do you. So, the ban applies to ALL. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Woody I may be dense - but my head is swimming. No, you are not dense. Be sure to follow your head into the water. You don't want it to swim alone. :-) Good one john317. I have a fine appreciation for wit. Keep up the good work. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 Did she have conditions for it? Yes but the conditions mean that the ban or prohibition applies to ALL. "Don’t . . . ever quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible” (SpM 167). I don't obey the Bible and neither do you. So, the ban applies to ALL. This is a good example of not understanding language. She doesn't say that people must be absolutely perfect before they can quote her. If you really believe this, you are under obligation to do it. So if that is the case, we shouldn't see you quoting her any more, right? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted May 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2011 I kind of had this vision in my head of someone's head heading out into the water by itself. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I kind of had this vision in my head of someone's head heading out into the water by itself. A little wit goes a long ways even under water. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Quote: If you really believe this, you are under obligation to do it. So if that is the case, we shouldn't see you quoting her any more, right? In case you haven't noticed by now - I don't believe in every thing our prophet has to say. It's you who has the job of defending her. I don't. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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