Coffee is good for U

[JawgeFromJawja]

I really doubt that you think any of us are 'insecure' in our beliefs. We are not proclaiming you are wrong in your beliefs or using words to suggest that you are condenming yourself by disbelieving a certain way. It has been said several times by several individuals, you can believe your way, it's okay! Can you allow others to believe their way? What has emphasized many times is the differences in belief systems, one says I will choose the science and you have choosen to not believe the science, but rather EGW and your interpretation. Don't get hung up on being right!

No one and I repeat, no one has the knowledge of any other persons relationship with God as to make judgement on that individuals understanding. If any of us are not making our selves completely understood, PM us!

I fully endorse this quotation.

This post will largely concern Ellen G. White's teachings on salvation. Please read the whole post before going off in a huff. Particularly read the next paragraph in its entirety.

Ellen G. White apparently espoused the cardinal doctrine of Christianity regarding salvation, that is, we are saved by the sacrificial death of Jesus. Mrs. White was a good woman, highly respected by her church community. But frankly, when trying to understand whether she considers "works" a necessary component of salvation, I always leave her writings confused. Which is not surprising, because I think Mrs. White is confused. Which is not surprizing, because many Christians of various creeds are confused. Which is not surprising, because The Bible is confusing on the issue:

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

This is such an explicit statement.

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

This passage directly contradicts Romans 3: 27 – 28.

A careful reading of Jas 2: 21 – 26 suggests that James misinterpreted Abraham’s intent to sacrifice – that intent to sacrifice was an act of faith.

God is not a vile tempered patriarchial era ogre who demands sacrifice of children. God’s position on this is shown over and over in His commandments to Israel NOT to pass their children through the fire to Molech. God in no way intended Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. God would not break His own commandment. I believe Abraham knew this, so Abraham’s gesture, aborted by an angel of God, was an act of faith.

A particularly vile and hypocritical straw man argument is frequently asserted by the more sanctimonious proponents of salvation by works: they accuse those who believe on faith alone of wanting an excuse to continue sinning. Certainly there are hypocrites in every religious persuasion who have no intention of practicing God’s law of love towards their neighbors. But the vast majority of practitioners of most religions are decent people who are no more and no less sinful than those who believe that only faith in God saves. The various translations of my Bible all state that we all sin, in the present tense. Painful, but another reason not to boast.

JawgeFromJawja

[Overaged]

quote=Overaged]Smart-aleck???? OK Thankyou

[Overaged]

There's a bit of a twist that happens. It becomes not about the specific issue, but about EGW. So then it's 'if you disagree with EGW you are disagreeing with God' - which of course is a salvation issue. (It's also cultic thinking, but leave that aside.)

LOL; the only thing is is you didn't leave it aside...."science" can be very cultic too. But I will leave that aside. Whats that have to do with coffee anyway.

[Overaged]

A particularly vile and hypocritical straw man argument is frequently asserted by the more sanctimonious proponents of salvation by works: they accuse those who believe on faith alone of wanting an excuse to continue sinning. Certainly there are hypocrites in every religious persuasion who have no intention of practicing God’s law of love towards their neighbors. But the vast majority of practitioners of most religions are decent people who are no more and no less sinful than those who believe that only faith in God saves. The various translations of my Bible all state that we all sin, in the present tense. Painful, but another reason not to boast.

JawgeFromJawja

It would be impossible to not be confused after reading your post here. A particularly vile and hypocritical straw man argument is frequently asserted by the more sanctimonious proponents of anti-Ellen White web sites and dogmas is that there is confusion on what Ellen White wrote about salvation. All the cherry-picking of quotes in the world won't help you here.

[JawgeFromJawja]

Your "spiritual ecstasy" sounds like someone slipped some mescaline into your food.

You have the nerve to allege I had to make some effort to be respectful; when you yourself are very rude and disrespectful to forum members here, you just showed who really has the problem here.. You should clean your own house first before you try cleaning someone else's.

Now who is being disrespectful? Neither I or anybody else in my family does mind altering drugs other than caffeine as a morning mood booster and my daily Martini to unwind. Mescaline? Illicit drugs are readily available in this part of Appalachia, but probably not mescaline.

When I experienced religious ecstasy last December 25, I had not finished brewing our morning coffee. And certainly no alcohol was involved. I had simply started reviewing my prayer list, which is one of my scheduled weekend activities. It had been many years since I had read about or reviewed the phenomenon of ecstasy. The event was totally unexpected. Only some two months ago did it occur to me that my experience fit into the category of ecstasy.

Ecstasy is an interesting phenomenon. There is a widespread belief that only saints and holy people experience it. Not so. It is fairly common with any and all committed religious practitioners, even be they such a gross sinner as I. From what I can gather, it does not occur with one who is deliberately evil.

From my exposure to the history of Mrs. White since age 10, it seems very likely that she had multiple episodes of ecstasy. You can bet your bottom dollar she was not "slipped mescaline" or any other drug, and she was definitely not lying about her experiences. And definitely not insane.

St. Paul describes what is almost certainly ecstasy in 2 Cor 12: 1 - 5.

Ecstasy is a gift of God. After an ecstatic event, one feels strengthened, refreshed,full of love, and confident. Reviewing what happened to me, I think one can prepare for and experience it by constantly striving to live in accordance with one's highest spiritual values. This is not a boast, fellow forum members - I realize my sins and shortcomings, which are great. (All right, Overaged - don't agree so vigorously. Yer gonna nod yer head off.)

A basic review of "religious ecstasy" can be found in Wikipedia, which despite its shortcomings is often a good springboard for information. But you should look further after reading that article. The Wikipedia article discusses the subject as it relates to multiple religions.

I would like to encourage all of you to seek such experiences. You can, and if you entreat God, you will.

Agape (Uh gappy)

JawgeFromJawja

[ClubV12]

The thing about faith is that it leads to "works", as you drawn to Christ and experience the freedom from guilt and the pure love that comes with accepting His righteouness by faith. Works must flow from a heart of love, as a pleasing incense to our Heavenly Father.

I agree both the bible and the Spirit of Prophecy are hard to understand. But is it, really? I don't think so. There are aspects of the bible that will challenge the deepest thinker, the most intense study, there will always remain some aspect, some truth that is just out of reach. Difficult, nay, impossible to understand it all.

And yet, the bible, and the Spirit of Prophecy, are not difficult to understand, for those who come to them with a sincere heart, open to the Spirit, searching as for hidden treasure.

I thank God for the great wisdom and counsel to be found in the Testimonies. Like the bible, the Spirit of Prophecy continually points to the cross and brings you to a deeper understanding of Christs sacrafice. No earthly sacrafice is to great when compared to the reward found at the end of the road, compared to the sacrafice Christ made on our behalf. It is a high calling, and it is possible to lead this life, laid out in detail for our time, within the Spirit of Prophecy writings. The counsel is plain enough, like the bible, it's not complicated and hard to understand, when you simply accept it as a revelation of the character of God.

I to have experienced a kind of spiritual ectasy. Recently it was on a Friday night, when God revealed to me a deeper meaning of righteousness by faith. I got right up and started praising His name for that wonderful revelation, the peace, the love.

[Overaged]

I guess we keep forgetting that whenever we point a finger at someone - there are three fingers pointing back at us! LOL; I liked what you said re "agreeing too vigorously." My first laugh of the day! Thanks! You have a great sense of humor.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I WAS WRONG....THIS **IS** A TOPIC ON LEGALISM.

my bad..

have your semantic fun..

outta here...

gone...

[Overaged]

Im likely wrong about a few things here too. I don't profess to know it all.

[ClubV12]

Sorry, I don't see the legalism on this thread. I see faith that leads to love that leads to a christian lifestyle in harmony with the character of God.

It's not complicated...

Keeping the Sabbath isn't legalism, it's the direction and will of God, in a spirit of love for His children. Following the directions of God, doing that which is for our benefit is no different.

[JawgeFromJawja]

I to have experienced a kind of spiritual ectasy. Recently it was on a Friday night, when God revealed to me a deeper meaning of righteousness by faith. I got right up and started praising His name for that wonderful revelation, the peace, the love.

My sincerest congratulations. The feeling is beyond words. The experience is available to all Christians. I didn't even ask, and would not have considered myself even worthy of such a wonder.

I now know that all can experience ecstasy by unselfish attention and devotion to God and His love. Not a characteristic behavior of mine, but I am determined to have an encore, God willing.

Jawge

[phkrause]

To JawgeFromJawja: if you don't begin following my instructions, you won't be able to post in theology threads or in Townhall. The "quote" thingy is easy to use and it's there for a very good reason.

John what bothers me more than Jawge not using the "quote" thingy, which I have no problem figuring out at all. What I do see as a problem is when replying people do not say who there replies are to. Sometimes it can be figured out but many times its hard to know who the replies are too. I think that's a worse infraction than Jawges' not using qoutes, even though for some its a problem. Just a thought or observation, not a critizism of anyone.

[John317]

Yes, I agree. Thank you.

The use of the "quote" button would help people know who is being answered and what exactly the response is to.

Everyone can use the "quote" buttons the way they want, but I have found the best way is to click on "quick quote" and then delete everything that you don't want to use. Sometimes that means deleting everything except a few words, but when "quick quote" is used, you can be sure that people will know what post is being responded to. Clicking on the name in [] at the top of the post will take you to the original post that the poster is replying to.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

I to have experienced a kind of spiritual ectasy. Recently it was on a Friday night, when God revealed to me a deeper meaning of righteousness by faith. I got right up and started praising His name for that wonderful revelation, the peace, the love.

My sincerest congratulations. The feeling is beyond words. The experience is available to all Christians. I didn't even ask, and would not have considered myself even worthy of such a wonder.

I now know that all can experience ecstasy by unselfish attention and devotion to God and His love. Not a characteristic behavior of mine, but I am determined to have an encore, God willing.

Jawge

Thank you, very much, Jawge. I do appreciate your use of the "quotes". :-)

[John317]

There's a bit of a twist that happens. It becomes not about the specific issue, but about EGW. So then it's 'if you disagree with EGW you are disagreeing with God' - which of course is a salvation issue. (It's also cultic thinking, but leave that aside.)

It's really important to understand and keep in mind that Ellen White's ministry was to the SDA Church. Her writings are not to be used as authority when talking with non-SDAs or with those who don't believe in her prophetic gift. Unless people bring her up, I never discuss her writings or quote them. The Bible is the standard of all doctrine.

What do you think of the following quote?

Quote:

You who have been educating yourselves and others in a spirit of criticism and accusing, remember that you are imitating the example of Satan. When it suits your purpose, you treat the Testimonies as if you believed them, quoting from them to strengthen any statement you wish to have prevail. But how is it when light is given to correct your errors? Do you then accept the light? When the Testimonies speak contrary to your ideas, you treat them very lightly. {1SM 42.4}

It does not become anyone to drop a word of doubt here and there that shall work like poison in other minds, shaking their confidence in the messages which God has given, which have aided in laying the foundation of this work, and have attended it to the present day, in reproofs, warnings, corrections, and encouragements. To all who have stood in the way of the Testimonies, I would say, God has given a message to His people, and His voice will be heard, whether you hear or forbear. Your opposition has not injured me; but you must give an account to the God of heaven, who has sent these warnings and instructions to keep His people in the right way. You will have to answer to Him for your blindness, for being a stumbling block in the way of sinners. {1SM 43.1}

Soon every possible effort will be made to discount and pervert the truth of the testimonies of God's Spirit. We must have in readiness the clear, straight messages that since 1846 have been coming to God's people. {1SM 41.2}

There will be those once united with us in the faith who will search for new, strange doctrines, for something odd and sensational to present to the people. They will bring in all conceivable fallacies, and will present them as coming from Mrs. White, that they may beguile souls.... {1SM 41.3}

Those who have treated the light that the Lord has given as a common thing will not be benefited by the instruction presented. {1SM 41.4}

There are those who will misinterpret the messages that God has given, in accordance with their spiritual blindness. {1SM 41.5}

Some will yield their faith, and will deny the truth of the messages, pointing to them as falsehoods. {1SM 41.6}

My Saviour declared me to be His messenger. "Your work," He instructed me, "is to bear My word. Strange things will arise, and in your youth I set you apart to bear the message to the erring ones, to carry the word before unbelievers, and with pen and voice to reprove from the Word actions that are not right. Exhort from the Word. I will make My Word open to you. It shall not be as a strange language. In the true eloquence of simplicity, with voice and pen, the messages that I give shall be heard from one who has never learned in the schools. My Spirit and My power shall be with you. {1SM 32.2}

"Be not afraid of man, for My shield shall protect you. It is not you that speaketh: it is the Lord that giveth the messages of warning and reproof. Never deviate from the truth under any circumstances. Give the light I shall give you. The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil." {1SM 32.3}

[JawgeFromJawja]

Originally Posted By: John317

To JawgeFromJawja: if you don't begin following my instructions, you won't be able to post in theology threads or in Townhall. The "quote" thingy is easy to use and it's there for a very good reason.

John what bothers me more than Jawge not using the "quote" thingy, which I have no problem figuring out at all. What I do see as a problem is when replying people do not say who there replies are to. Sometimes it can be figured out but many times its hard to know who the replies are too. I think that's a worse infraction than Jawges' not using qoutes, even though for some its a problem. Just a thought or observation, not a critizism of anyone.

Replication of a single quote is easy enough for a well-trained orangutan. My problem is with the nested, stacked, or multiple quotes. How is that done? Instructions, if available, are hard to find.

Best regards,

Jawge

[John317]

Replication of a single quote is easy enough for a well-trained orangutan. My problem is with the nested, stacked, or multiple quotes. How is that done? Instructions, if available, are hard to find.

OK, the beginning of a quote is: quote=name in [] and the quote ends with /quote in []. So you can delete everything that you don't want in the quote. No need to quote the entire post if you don't want to or if you are only responding to one particular sentence or section of the post.

As long as you are quoting the person's writing accurately, there is no problem in editing or deleting parts of it.

Let me know if I answered your question or if you have others.

[Bravus]

George, like so, but replace the curly brackets with square ones:

{quote=Bravus}

{quote=George}What George said is here{/quote}

What Bravus said about what George said is here {/quote}

Hope that's helpful.

Maybe someone can help explain my brain to me: whenever I go to type 'George' - and this has happened to me for years - my fingers go with Gearoge. No idea why.

[Overaged]

Maybe someone can help explain my brain to me: whenever I go to type 'George' - and this has happened to me for years - my fingers go with Gearoge. No idea why.

Ha ha; I guess I better not say it in trucker's language, but it is also called a "mental block;" in scientific language.

[Overaged]

Replication of a single quote is easy enough for a well-trained orangutan.

Jawge

You need to talk with this guy

[phkrause]

Here's an interesting post I just came across in one of the Health threads:

More on Prostate Problems

Men can significantly reduce their risk for urinary and prostate problems by avoiding coffee and caffeine. Milton Krisiloff, MD, a urologist from Santa Monica, California, found that dietary modification, including the elimination of all sources of caffeine, actually resolved prostatitis (prostate infection and inflammation) in the great majority of his patients. --Let's Live, October 1997;100.

Comment: It never ceases to amaze me that science is finding that the health message presented by Ellen White is right on target. We can thank the Lord that we as SDAs have had a head start in becoming knowledgeable in ways to maintain, regain and promote healthful living!

Suzanne

[Bravus]

Here's the Krisiloff study: http://journals.lww.com/infectdis/Abstra...Urethral.2.aspx

It's published, but it's not an experiment:

1. There was no control group: there is nothing to show how many of these infections/inflammations would have cleared up naturally in the same amount of time.

2. There was no one-factor design: it could have been the caffeine, it could have been the spicy food, it could have been the alcohol.

Contrast that study with the one that started this thread... and was roundly condemned, mostly on grounds that were shown to be false.

[CoAspen]

(Are you trying to mess with my beliefs, again?)

I yam what I yam! Popeye.

[Overaged]

(Are you trying to mess with my beliefs, again?)

I yam what I yam! Popeye.

He is messing with your coffee beliefs

[JawgeFromJawja]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

(Are you trying to mess with my beliefs, again?)

I yam what I yam! Popeye.

He is messing with your coffee beliefs

Only a few minutes uh go Ah tole thuh lil' Seb'umth Day Adventist wife o' mah youth Ah'm leavin' thet thar forum you strong armed me to join.

She still won't write on thuh forum, but she sed to me, "Keep ya buns on that forum. Y'all need each othah.

Y'all deserve each othah."

She hales from the Hill Section in Augusta. Those folk have the most laughably slow drawl of any from Augusta. Her accent was in high demand when we had our 3 year vacation in Germany compliments of Uncle Sam.

This is the truth: She is a medical office assistant. She worked right by my side for the first 15 years of my practice. We never came to blows, but Ah quickly larned if I don' listen to her, Ah git into trouble. Even about medical stuff. So until you'uns kick me off the forum for lack of technical skills, by her orders yer stuck with me.

After fifteen years, she went to work for a buncha plumbers in Augusta, where she incidentally started college at Augusta State University. In medical practice, a plumber is a urologist. That group really appreciated her work. Either she or I commuted between Clayton and Augusta on weekends for 12 years. Grandchildren had started coming by then, so she moved back to Clayton. Funny thing - she wouldn't work for me anymore. So she quit work altogether for full time grand mothering.

Jawge, sleepless at 2:03AM, and determined not to use sleeping pills.

Thank goodness for Netflix, HULU plus, and other 24/7 web based movie and TV show providers. My preference are usually documentaries,sci-fy, drama, and the really good old TV shows. Then there is always Club Adventist.

Agape,

Jawge