Jody Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 With all the criticism of Ellen White and questions about modern-day prophets, how are we to know the true from the false? Quote Christ in you...Col 1:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 1, 2011 Members Share Posted June 1, 2011 With all the criticism of Ellen White and questions about modern-day prophets, how are we to know the true from the false? Just because someone is criticized doesn't do away with the fact they are a prophet. Don't forget quite a number of the Bible prophets were criticized! Yet no one is taking that away from them! There are 7 rules I believe on how to know if one is a prophet, in the Bible. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Just because someone is criticized doesn't do away with the fact they are a prophet. Don't forget quite a number of the Bible prophets were criticized! Yet no one is taking that away from them! There are 7 rules I believe on how to know if one is a prophet, in the Bible. pk, I agree with you. I think all the prophets of the Bible were. It would be good to list those characteristics from the bible. Jody :) Quote Christ in you...Col 1:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Just please don't place EGW on the same level as the Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddar Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I think Ellen White was a great prophet but not the best gospel preacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I think Ellen White was a great prophet but not the best gospel preacher. That's because most of her writings concentrate on Christian living so much so it gets legalistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 "Just please don't place EGW on the same level as the Bible." Yeah, sure, Ok... I wonder what parts of Ellen Whites writings would be considered for entry into the bible record? Someone had to aske that question of Pauls writings! Not everything Paul wrote is included! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 There are 7 rules I believe on how to know if one is a prophet, in the Bible. Could you post those seven rules for us please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 In brief, without biblical referrence: True prophet's sayings are totally consistent with all that the Holy Spirit has already revealed in Scripture. True prophets will reprove other prophet's sins, rather than conspire to support one-another's claims. True prophet's predictions must come to pass, ALL of them. True prophets lead people to repentance and humility before God, and to love their fellow humans. They never lead people to become competitive, prideful or self-exalting. True prophets confess that Jesus came in our "fallen" human flesh, yet He got the victory over every sin and all sin, just as we can, through connection with His Father and our Father. True prophets have no strength or breath of their own while in vision, but supernatural strength from God. True prophets exalt Christ alone, but never their own abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 I agree with that statement. The Bible must be the final authority. Even James White, her husband had this to say. "What has the Review[an Adventist publication] to do with Ellen White's views? The sentiments published in its columns are all drawn from the Holy Scriptures. No writer of the Reviewhas ever referred to them as an authority on any point...It's motto has been, 'The Bible and the Bible alone, the only rule of faith and duty... James White article "A Test", Review and Herald, October 16, 1855, as reprinted in The Pioneers And The Spirit of Prophecy But we have to be careful, because that same word tells us, "And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper". - 2Ch 20:20 KJV Jody :) Quote Christ in you...Col 1:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Ellen White in the bible (just to stir the pot): I'd vote for a few selected quotes from Steps to Christ on the justification by faith, placed in the New Testament, next to Galations. If space allowed, some clairity with a few words from our prophet on the moral vs ceremonial law Paul talked about. A hot issue THEN and it REMAINS a stumbling block to this day (especially so in 1888)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 In brief, without biblical referrence: True prophet's sayings are totally consistent with all that the Holy Spirit has already revealed in Scripture. True prophets will reprove other prophet's sins, rather than conspire to support one-another's claims. True prophet's predictions must come to pass, ALL of them. True prophets lead people to repentance and humility before God, and to love their fellow humans. They never lead people to become competitive, prideful or self-exalting. True prophets confess that Jesus came in our "fallen" human flesh, yet He got the victory over every sin and all sin, just as we can, through connection with His Father and our Father. True prophets have no strength or breath of their own while in vision, but supernatural strength from God. True prophets exalt Christ alone, but never their own abilities. pkrause, Do your seven items agree with ClubV12's items cited above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 In another thread it was mentioned one could prophecie and still not be a "prophet". We have many such examples in the bible, men who are not called prophets and yet, they prophecied. Could one have a dream, perhaps even a vision, or some kind of revelation, without the full blown manifestations Ellen White exhibited while in vision? No breath, superior strength, etc. Some "prophets" only prophecie once. In modern times, Hiram Edson comes to mind. Some say he had a "vision", others say it was a "revelation", perhaps other suggest it was an ephiany after studying the scriptures and the thought just "came to him". I think he had a vision, myself, some kind of divine revelation was given him from God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 The Bible says King Saul prophesied even while he pursued David to kill him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Still would like know pkrause's seven items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Then there was those 70 men Moses picked to be leaders, that prophecied, so the people would have confidence in them as appointed by God. ...pk's taking a nap, we'll have to wait. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I can wait till pkrause gets up. He needs to rest. We can be patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddar Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Balaam prohesied the truth about Israel and he loved money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 2, 2011 Members Share Posted June 2, 2011 pkrause, Do your seven items agree with ClubV12's items cited above? Thanks all, I appreciate giving me time. I am working on it. And Club has a good understanding of them. But I'm trying to locate the verse's from the Bible. Just have some patience and I will get back with them. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Hi All, As I said before, it would be good to support what we say with the bible. So for the first item in Club's list I would think Isaiah 8:20 would apply True prophet's sayings are totally consistent with all that the Holy Spirit has already revealed in Scripture. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. - Isa 8:20 KJV Blessings Quote Christ in you...Col 1:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor_Chick Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 [...]To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. - Isa 8:20 KJV Blessings Quote Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 The laws and opinions of men are exalted above the law of the Infinite, just as in Eden the deceptive wiles of Satan were credited in preference to the word of God. (ST 07-21-87) Does this quote apply to you and the CSDA Church? In my opinion it seems to me that you are setting yourself above the Word of God by claiming to be the Interpreter of truth when you say that you are current edition of Ellen G. White. This is no personal attack, just taking what you have already admitted on this website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman1228 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Whether a prophet is true or false depends on your bias going into the decision. If you already believe that a person is a true prophet it will be impossible for you to be unbiased as you look for evidence that might be to the contrary. This is how it is with LDS and Joseph Smith. This is how it is with Christian Science and Mary Baker Eddie. It is also the same with SDA and EGW. If you are a dyed in the wool card carrying SDA it will be impossible for you to look at evidence proving that she was a false prophet without applying your personal bias which overrides the evidence that proves it. Secondary to this is the fact that whoever brings evidence counter to the personal bias toward EGW being a true prophet that person become the target of the most vicious attacks of a most personal nature, even to the extent that they are told that they are a servant of Satan. So knowing that they cannot attack the problem and deal with the evidence and facts as they are presented the true SDA believe resorts to the only other option they have, and that is to redirect the discussion away from their belief in EGW and on to the person that had the audacity to suggest that EGW may not be who they think she is. The tragedy is that the free exchange of ideas and opinions between SDA colleagues is laid waste by preconceptions and prejudice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I don't believe that's true. I think your prejudice is getting in the way of using logic and reason as applied to those who make the claim. The "tests" are fairly straight forward. Applying the seven principles to Joseph Smith, he clearly comes up short. The big reason is his writings specifically REPLACE the bible in many important areas. Unlike Ellen White, his writings are given priority as a "greater light" than the bible. Ellen White always consider her writings as a "lesser light" in that regard. An important test. There were some 200 people that claimed to be "prophets" in Ellen Whites time. One or two were taken seriously and some of our leaders thought they were indeed inspired. Because SO many claimed the title "prophet" this is primarily the reason Ellen White never claimed to be one! Applying the tests of a prophet revealed the truth, in time. The principle and the person do need time to come to fruition and prove themselves. Understandably many people within the church, during Ellen Whites time and today, have less than full confidence in her inspiration. It is not a "test of fellowship" for the general membership to accept or deny her gift. However, it IS a test for those who "fight against" it and either hold an office within the church or have had sufficient time to understand the issues. For instance, if you, Musicman, were an ordained minister in the SDA church and preached a sermon denouncing Ellen Whites prophetic gift you may well be "fired" from your job. I would certainly vote to remove you from office! It is one thing to have your doubts, it is another thing to "fight against" a core belief of Seventh-day Adventist doctrine. By doing so, you make it clear you don't want to be part of the church, you dont support the church and therefore should be removed from membership of the church. The supposed evidence and documentation as it concerns Ellen Whites gift has been hashed and rehased for decades. The matter is settled, it is not open to debate from the pulpit, nor should it be. You got your doubts? Fine, take it outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman1228 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Ah, blind faith at work. It is true that facts don't matter to someone of great faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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