Prophets: True/False, how can we tell?

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

But they didn't obey what Jesus told them to do...

Lesson? perhaps...

Innuendo? Why not make your point? We might glean some value.

[BarbaraLynn]

It seems the beam is in pastorchick's eye because he claims far more Godliness than I do.

1. He claims to have overcome all known sin. I have not. WHOSE BEAM IS LARGER?

2. He claims to be a prophet. I do not. WHOSE BEAM IS LARGER?

3. He claims to have Direct messages from God. I do not. WHOSE BEAM IS LARGER?

4. He claims to be the Elijah. I do not. WHOSE BEAM IS LARGER?

Miz,

I do not believe that claiming any of these four things means that there is a beam in the eye of the one claiming them. The Bible teaches us that we must overcome all known sin (if we are born again) and many scriptures have been quoted to show that. Prophets are Biblical, prophets (and others) receive direct messages from God, and the Bible says that Elijah will come again right before the second coming of Christ.

By the way, you say you do not claim to overcome all known sin (as though that puts you in a safer place than a person claiming to have done this). This causes me great concern for your soul.

1 John 5:4 "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

Revelation 2:8 "...To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

[Pastor_Chick]

...."How do you know if a prophet is true or false?" Let me ask you - if someone comes to you claiming to be a prophet, what is your reaction? I can tell you the reaction I have seen when various people come making the claim, or any vaguely similar one. It is skepticism and automatic suspicion. I have yet to see anyone ask if a prophet is true. Instead, they seek for ways to know if they are false.

[miz3]

By the way, you say you do not claim to overcome all known sin (as though that puts you in a safer place than a person claiming to have done this). This causes me great concern for your soul.

1 John 5:4 "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

Revelation 2:8 "...To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

The fact that I do not claim to have overcome "all known sin" does indeed put me in a safer position. There is a big difference between having overcome "all known sin" and making such a claim. Anyone who has indeed overcome "all known sin" would never, ever brag about it or go public with such a fact. Yet you, pastorchick, and all those with him brag and make a public spectacle of yourselves over the issue.

The Bible does not support your position. Where does the Bible say that we are to go public with the fact that we have overcome "all known sin"? That is not a Biblical concept or a Biblical fact.

Yet you and pastorchick parade yourselves around as if you have accomplished something we other human beings have not done. It is impossible for you to know whether or not I have overcome all known sin.

I just said I do not go around claiming to have overcome "all known sin" and you take that as proof that I am lost. How do you know such a thing is fact? You don't! This is just one of the many facts that label you and yours as a fanatical cult!

[miz3]

I unequivocally deny posting my claim to prophet-hood on this forum as any sort of self-exaltation. I have merely answered questions asked of me until God has forbidden me to continue.

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

Thus, you not only claim to be a prophet in the mold of Ellen White but you claim to be more than a prophet. You claim to be the last day Elijah! You claim to be greater than Ellen White. You hear that folks?

That to me is most assuredly self-exaltation in the clearest form. And in your own words no less!

[miz3]

Honest readers pastorchick will see you as the cultish leader that you are.

Any Biblical support showing in the clearest and unambiguous way that you are the Elijah?

Such an important figure in prophecy would not be ambiguous within the Biblical Record.

[BarbaraLynn]

Originally Posted By: BarbaraLynn

By the way, you say you do not claim to overcome all known sin (as though that puts you in a safer place than a person claiming to have done this). This causes me great concern for your soul.

1 John 5:4 "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

Revelation 2:8 "...To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

The fact that I do not claim to have overcome "all known sin" does indeed put me in a safer position. There is a big difference between having overcome "all known sin" and making such a claim. Anyone who has indeed overcome "all known sin" would never, ever brag about it or go public with such a fact. Yet you, pastorchick, and all those with him brag and make a public spectacle of yourselves over the issue.

The Bible does not support your position. Where does the Bible say that we are to go public with the fact that we have overcome "all known sin"? That is not a Biblical concept or a Biblical fact.

Yet you and pastorchick parade yourselves around as if you have accomplished something we other human beings have not done. It is impossible for you to know whether or not I have overcome all known sin.

I just said I do not go around claiming to have overcome "all known sin" and you take that as proof that I am lost. How do you know such a thing is fact? You don't! This is just one of the many facts that label you and yours as a fanatical cult!

Revelation 14:5 "And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

As I re-read my post to you, I do not read bragging about overcoming, but on the contrary, I read expressed concern for your soul.

If somehow this amounts to bragging on my part, let it be known that my bragging is in Christ, not myself.

Boasting in Christ is Biblical.

Read Psalms 44:8 'In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever."

1 Corinthians 1:31: "That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."

2 Corinthians 11:10 "As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia."

Choosing to have no guile in my mouth, can I deny that which is Truth? No, absolutely not! Does that constitute bragging? If it does, so be it! You can say what you will, but, I will not be ashamed of the victory that Christ has given to me - and not only to me, but to all who will accept it!

Should I be ashamed to proclaim what Christ has done for me? No! I am His witness so others can know what He can and will do for them, if they will allow Him to!

Amen!

[miz3]

BarbaraLynn,

By stating publicly you have overcome every known sin is indeed bragging about yourself and the exalted position you have attained.

I did not see you boasting in Jesus Christ. You never to the best of my knowledge ever said or anyone on the CSDA website ever says that the boasting is about Jesus Christ. It is all about what you the human entity have done and what you the human entity have accomplished.

It was only after you were pressed by me that you NOW SAY it is the Lord. God was an after thought.

As I said before anyone who actually has overcome all known sin (and there very well may be individuals who have indeed accomplished this level) would never, ever state that they have reached this state of existence.

They would in fact be talking only about what God has done for them. I don't see that in you, pastorchick, or any other CSDA. I see only that you claim to have overcome all known sin and that such a state is an absolute requirement for membership in your group.

Also, again, the Bible does not ever state that any group of God's People would ever make it a requirement to overcome all known sin in order to belong to that group.

Any such group that would ever attain to this "level" attained it not because it was a requirement but because God gave them such a victory.

Again, you can quote all the Bible texts you want that state overcoming all known sin is possible but that is not the issue. I never said that it was impossible to overcome all known sin.

I did say that those who attained such a state would never:

1. make it a requirement of membership in that group.

2. go public by stating they have overcome all known sin.

You, pastorchick, and all CSDA members fail on both counts.

[Light Fox]

Well, this certainly took off since the last time I checked the thread.

Here's what I find interesting - Miz's claim to validity is not being a prophet, not overcoming sin, and not receiving any messages from God.

Ironically, despite going through all this to show how little his own judgment is worth from the Divine standpoint, I almost never see him quoting Bible verses. Instead he points to, for example:

Again, you can quote all the Bible texts you want that state overcoming all known sin is possible but that is not the issue. I never said that it was impossible to overcome all known sin.

I did say that those who attained such a state would never: (...)

[miz3]

So... you're not a prophet, you don't receive anything from God, and you still commit known sin. But "what [Miz] said" is the standard you are applying, regardless of Bible passages or SoP quotes cited by others.

Trying for comedian of the year?

You also did not take my words correctly. Well, you already knew that.

1. I am not a prophet.

2. I DO receive God's kindness in Salvation and in the Holy Spirit as His guide to the Truth in the Bible.

3. I didn't say I committed known sin. What I did say was anyone that had overcome all known sin would not brag about it or make public statements that they had attained such a state.

You do not read so carefully or you intentionally distorted what I said. In doing that I guess you just demonstrated that:

YOU HAVE NOT OVERCOME ALL KNOWN SIN!

You just broke the command to NOT LIE! (make a false report).

Does that mean you have start over Qinael before becoming a member of the CSDA Church again.

Personal attacks do not become you especially when they are false.

[miz3]

So the players in this game seem to be:

So you think this a game in which we keep score?

How shameful!

It is evident that you are not really interested in Biblical Truth you are only interested in keeping score and making sure that score favors your side.

It is clear that the Truth is not in you.

You quote a lot of Bible and Ellen White and claim to have overcome all known sin but yet you reveal your true nature in that you don't care about Truth, you care only about "winning" and about "keeping score".

I was right about you Qinael and also about pastorchick and your whole organization. That's why you pick a fight with the SDA Church.

You are about winning not really about changing wrong into right.

You have revealed thyself!

[Light Fox]

Not even going to toss in a token bible verse? Alright...

Accusatory spirit aside, "players in this game" was admittedly a poor, if metaphorical, choice of words. Editing it to "participants" as it maintains the same meaning without the questionable "folksy" rendering.

[miz3]

Not even going to toss in a token bible verse? Alright...

Accusatory spirit aside, "players in this game" was admittedly a poor, if metaphorical, choice of words. Editing it to "participants" as it maintains the same meaning without the questionable "folksy" rendering.

Doesn't change anything! Its the same irreverent message only in a different dress.

Putting new lipstick on a pig doesn't change a thing, it is still a dirty filthy pagan pig.

You are still what I said you were even though you changed dresses or changed lipstick.

[Light Fox]

Doesn't change anything! Its the same irreverent message only in a different dress.

Putting new lipstick on a pig doesn't change a thing, it is still a dirty filthy pagan pig.

You are still what I said you were even though you changed dresses or changed lipstick.

I just want to be sure that I'm understanding you here... Did you just refer to me as a "dirty filthy pagan pig?"

[BobRyan]

The righteousness of Christ is embodied in the ten commandments, they are one and the same.

That is true. The perfect obedience of Christ to the Law of God is what we see in the term "The Righteousness of Christ" for the Law of God is the transcript of His own Character. God has made the Law as immutable and sacred as Himself.

Thus to oppose the Law of God - is to oppose God Himself.

Hence the importance both Satan and God place on the debate over the 4th commandment.

And this is why I find it interesting that in Rev 14 there is an echo of "choose you this day whom you will serve" in the message "Fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of His judgment has come. Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth and the springs of water"

It is why under the New Covenant - the Law of God is "written on the heart".

It is why Paul can say in 1Cor 7:19 "What matters is keeping the Law of God"

It is whay Paul says in Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

It is why John says in 1John 2:4-9 that if anyone claims to know and love Christ - but is in rebellion against the Law of God - they are lying.

in Christ,

Bob

[miz3]

Qinael,

Changing the words of your vile post about this being a game does not change the filthiness of your words or your intent to reduce this discussion to a game in which we keep score.

Is it clear now?

[skyblue888]

"Righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God," and "the life of God in the soul is man's only hope." M.B.18; M.H.115.

"Righteousness is right doing." C.O.L.312.

"Righteousness is obedience to the law." F.W.101.

Speaking of the 1888 message, Mrs. White wrote:

"It invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." T.M.92.

She spoke of "the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousnes into the life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ and not your own righteousness, you will not depend upon what you can do or what you will do," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." F.W.65,66,27.

"We shall come in repentance and contrition, with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness, and learn that we must daily apply to the merits of the blood of Christ that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use." ibid, 86

Thank God for the simplicity of the 1888 message.

"The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." ibid, 64.

sky

[karl]

"Righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God," and "the life of God in the soul is man's only hope." M.B.18; M.H.115.

"Righteousness is right doing." C.O.L.312.

"Righteousness is obedience to the law." F.W.101.

Amen, Sky.

A lot of people in the Christian world talk and behave as if the whole purpose of the plan of salvation was to get God killed and to get the benefits of his death onto us.

The purpose of salvation is to get our lives transfused with Jesus' life. The purpose is to get God ALIVE into us, not dead onto us.

The life is in the blood. Jesus shed His blood, not just to shed blood, but to get it into us.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead : he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

[miz3]

The whole purpose of the plan of Salvation is so God can have His Glory. It is all about God getting glory and God doing what He wants to do.

"What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory"

Romans 9:23.

"Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come."

Revelation 14:7.

[ClubV12]

"...so God can have His Glory. It is all about God getting glory and God doing what He wants to do."

Sounds very selfish of God. Do you have any Ellen White counsel that would shed some light on this, miz3?

[miz3]

Read the Bible and it's all about God. He is the Center. Everything is centered on Him. Everything is about Him.

Look at the Ten Commandments. What is the FIRST COMMANDMENT?

It is not about anything but God. The same is true in regard to the first four Commandments.

Look at the THREE ANGELS in Revelation. They are all about God and His Glory and His Worship.

It may sound selfish for God to demand Worship and not only that to demand Worship of only Himself (see third temptation of Christ).

Yes ClubV12 God is all about Himself. Even when He is about others it is still about Himself and how great God is! God is extremely self-centered.

It works for God but such "selfishness" does not work for anyone or anything else.

[ClubV12]

I thought you might be able to offer some insight from one of the best bible students of our time, Ellen White. Maybe Cheddar could offer some insights from that great bible student , EGW, if you can't?

[cheddar]

I agree with Miz, God is very selfish. He wants to have complete control over every area of our lives but he can do it because there is no sin in him.

When we're selfish it's always bad because we still have sin in our characters.

[ClubV12]

Well that's to bad you guys are unable to off any insight beyond "you gotta read the bible." That didn't work out to well for the Ethiopian that Phillip met in the desert. Most people are like that Ethiopian, often the Holy Spirit sends us help through one of His chosen earthly workers. A friend, a Pastor, Ellen White, Phillip in the book of Acts, various methods are employed. I wonder how many times we have failed to see the help the Holy Spirit has sent because of our prejudice?