Should GC Legal Stop those who impersonate the Church? Yes or No?

[skyblue888]

We've heard this muscic before on other sites.

"he can do as he likes"

No he cannot do as he likes. True, he can make sure everybody is acting civilly but in matters of faith and conscience the soul must be left untrammeled.

sky

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]in matters of faith and conscience the soul must be left untrammeled.

sky

sky,

We are on the same page here. I like those words! Thank you.

[miz3]

pastorchick and sky,

Stan was not trampling on your conscience or your faith. You are still free to believe what you want.

However, you do not have the right to express that belief just anywhere you please. That includes this website.

I think Stan has given us quite a wide birth of expression. He does not have to do this. He can cut any of us off anytime he please for any reason he pleases.

Again, we may not like it but since he owns the website he can do that!

You have no complaint!

Your freedom is not unlimited. Your arrogance in that you believe to have unlimited freedom to do as you please reveals a lot about your character. Such a character cannot be from God because such arrogance is not Biblical!

I know pastorchick by his statements on this website believes that he can do as he pleases without any possible restraint. These are characteristics of a spoiled child, NOT a child of God.

[Brother Peter]

Brother Peter,

I believe (I could be wrong about this) Stan OWNS this website. As the owner he can do as he likes. We are his guests. We may not like his judgment but he can do as he pleases.

If you want to start your own website you are free to do so and then you can run it as you like.

Calling Stan a "dictator" is meant to put him in a bad light. Such a judgment is NOT your call. Stan can do what he wants with what is his.

I believe the Bible states that what someone owns they can do what they want with it. You cannot cry foul. Hint: see the parable of the workers who were hired at different hours of the day.

Hmmm!

I believe (I could be wrong about this) Stan OWNS this website.

I believe that God is the owner. And Stan is the care tacker

As the owner he can do as he likes. We are his guests.

As the care taker he should follow the steps in the bible as to how he must treat others as Christ did.

We may not like his judgment but he can do as he pleases.

If he accepts the role as a caretaker he will not do the things that pleases himself. He would instead emulate the will of his Lord and maker.

If you want to start your own website you are free to do so and then you can run it as you like.

I for one am not called to run a web site and if I am called to run one, then I must do the things that pleases God and not do the things that pleases the flesh.

Calling Stan a "dictator" is meant to put him in a bad light.

I DID NOT CALL HIM A "DICTATOR" Who am I to do so? Miz3 Please take the time to make sure that you are quoting me correctly when you are replying. I guess for you stating a sentence and asking a question is the same.With all due respect. Are you a Dictator? If NOT then do NOT tell me what to place as a title for the tread. It was "IS IT OK FOR A CHURCH TO SUE.YES OR NO"? I sense fear in you Stan. How interesting.

Such a judgment is NOT your call. Stan can do what he wants with what is his.

Now doing Gods will is very dear to my heart and I must use his words to judge my action likewise yours. If Stan Miz3 which to please God, then he will only do the things that pleases and honor God and not him self.

I believe the Bible states that what someone owns they can do what they want with it.

Miz3 I would like you to think to the logical conclusion of what you just state, please do so.

You cannot cry foul. Hint: see the parable of the workers who were hired at different hours of the day.

You know miz3 you have just open a can of worms with this one. It would take a next tread to talk about it in detail. Do you know whom these workers represent? Do you know who is the householder that went out to hire the workers? Do you know whom the first hour worker represent? Do you know whom the last hour workers represent?

Are you using Mat:20:15 to justify your worldly thoughts and motives?

Let me share this with you:

The householder's dealing with the workers in his

vineyard represents God's dealing with the human family. It is contrary to the customs that prevail among men. In worldly business, compensation is given according to the work accomplished.

[color:#3333FF]The laborer expects to be paid only that which he earns. But in the parable, Christ was illustrating the principles of His kingdom--a kingdom not of this world. He is not controlled by any human standard. The Lord says, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways. . . . For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8, 9. {COL 396.5} !

________________

Bro Peter

[miz3]

Brother Peter,

You are a very presumptuous individual! You a guest presume to tell Stan how God wants him to run this website.

Even if we accept your view that Stan is a caretaker, you are still wrong.

God is Stan's judge! You are trying to take the position of judge by stating that Stan is not running the website correctly.

Who are you that you should presume to take the place of God as Stan's judge?

Stan is caretaking this website and regardless of how you feel about it you are still a guest and you do not set the rules. Stan as caretaker sets the rules. If God the owner does not like it then He will take care of Stan in His own way and time.

In the meantime behave like a Christian guest and except Stan's judgment. Either that or leave and never come back. The choice is yours.

As to Matthew 20:15, I am using it to put you in your proper position as a guest and not as a judge of things you do not know.

You are the one who is acting unBiblical by trying to be Stan's judge. Need I quote the text?

Next you assert that Christ did not please Himself. That also is not Biblical. God always does what pleases Himself. God never ever does something that does not please Him. You do not know God or you would not make such a foolish statement.

Next you did call Stan a dictator! Now you twist the truth and deny that you did. I guess its clear once again, you people at CSDA have really NOT overcome all known sin.

[Sheila7]

Miz3, were YOU there when God gave the name Seventh-day Adventist to whom he chose? If YOU were not there, how do YOU know it was God given?

Were you there when the Bible was written? "Were you there when they crucified my Lord? It causes me to tremble..." May be the words to this song were written for someone much like you and me.

If this were the inquisition, and I answered, no, what would you do then? This is a life and death matter.

I do answer, No, I was not there. I was not an eye-witness, as you were not. It is simple faith that I believe what happened-happened. Just as I believe every part of what was written in the Bible happened. I've tested the water's. The pastor and his members speak and write ONLY according to the Word of God and the SOP.

I've never, in the history of being born and raised SDA, experienced a pastor and his members to be so transparent ( will advise here that I am a senior citizen-probably older than anyone on the forum). Every bit of information you could possibly think of concerning the CSDA church; its doctrine, its history, etc., is answered on the CSDA websites and links.

Again, I invite you to investigate for yourself.

Yours in Christ's love and grace.

Sheila7

[Brother Peter]

Brother Peter,

You are a very presumptuous individual! You a guest presume to tell Stan how God wants him to run this website.

Even if we accept your view that Stan is a caretaker, you are still wrong.

God is Stan's judge! You are trying to take the position of judge by stating that Stan is not running the website correctly.

Who are you that you should presume to take the place of God as Stan's judge?

Stan is caretaking this website and regardless of how you feel about it you are still a guest and you do not set the rules. Stan as caretaker sets the rules. If God the owner does not like it then He will take care of Stan in His own way and time.

In the meantime behave like a Christian guest and except Stan's judgment. Either that or leave and never come back. The choice is yours.

As to Matthew 20:15, I am using it to put you in your proper position as a guest and not as a judge of things you do not know.

You are the one who is acting unBiblical by trying to be Stan's judge. Need I quote the text?

Next you assert that Christ did not please Himself. That also is not Biblical. God always does what pleases Himself. God never ever does something that does not please Him. You do not know God or you would not make such a foolish statement.

Next you did call Stan a dictator! Now you twist the truth and deny that you did. I guess its clear once again, you people at CSDA have really NOT overcome all known sin.

Hi Miz3 I believe that Stan is of age and can speak for himself concerning the statement I have made."Conscience is like a sun-dial; IF you let TRUTH shine upon it, it will put you right" —Hamilton Bower I really like this quote.

That being said If I cannot see the way then I must get help. When help and instruction comes then I can chose to accept or reject it. God give us that power to do so. But in the end we must face the judgment.Now I was given a message I cannot change it or try to polish it up or hide it so that no one can see, hear or find the truth. Having the love God within I will speak the truth as it is given without ANY modification. I believe that you enjoy twisting ones statement in order to cause confusion. Obviously I miss the part of scripture where Christ pleased himself when he came to die to save us from our sins. I thought he did everything to please his father in heaven.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

________________

Bro.Peter.

[Light Fox]

I think what Peter is taking issue with is that just because someone can do something, does not mean they should do something. For example, adultery is perfectly legal. A person is within their rights to consume alcohol. And finally, to get us somewhat back on topic, a religious establishment can sue people for how they conduct a religious observances and get the full support of the second beast. None of these things are acceptable before God.

"Can do this by the law" doesn't touch morality or righteousness, and never has.

It seems to me that this whole issue of thread moving / renaming has become something of a diversion, however. Obviously the thread title was changed to something reflecting a strong bias ("impersonate the church"), but I don't think the underlying meaning was done too much violence.

Perhaps returning to that original meaning of the thread would be beneficial. As much as I've begun ignoring miz's posts, Sheila did post some interesting questions a couple posts up.

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]Jesus supported and loved the "church" of His time, while He walked the earth. In spite of their serious flaws. But there was a "line in the sand" for the Jewish faith. A line the GC has not yet crossed, [...].

[Pastor_Chick]

Should GC Legal Stop others from using their name via trademark lawsuits funded by tithe?

That there will always be a temptation to divert the tithe money to other channels, we know; but the Lord has guarded this, His own portion, to be sacredly used for the support of the gospel ministers. There may be such measures taken as shall reduce the working force that bears the message of truth, as is being done, and in America has been done to meet the measurement of the tithe in the treasury; but this is not the Lord's plan, and if entered upon and continued, will reduce God's blessing to the churches that work upon such a plan. There may be a great dearth of means if there is a departing from the Lord's plan. The Lord regards the tithe as His own, to be used for a certain purpose, and it is an easy matter, in the place of practicing the self-denial that we should, to help in educating students, or in the temporal matters, as providing conveniences for the church, which is necessary, to dip into the Lord's consecrated portion which should be used only to sustain the ministers in new fields as well as in other places. (Manuscript Releases Volume One, page 193)

This matter of giving is not left to impulse. God has given us definite instruction in regard to it. He has specified tithes and offerings as the measure of our obligation. And He desires us to give regularly and systematically. . . . Let each regularly examine his income, which is all a blessing from God, and set apart the tithe as a separate fund, to be sacredly the Lord's. This fund should not in any case be devoted to any other use; it is to be devoted solely to support the ministry of the gospel. (Counsels on Stewardship, pp 80, 81)

Misappropriation of the tithe is reason enough to condemn the trademark lawsuits.

[Brother Peter]

Should GC Legal Stop others from using their name via trademark lawsuits funded by tithe?

Originally Posted By: EGW

That there will always be a temptation to divert the tithe money to other channels, we know; but the Lord has guarded this, His own portion, to be sacredly used for the support of the gospel ministers. There may be such measures taken as shall reduce the working force that bears the message of truth, as is being done, and in America has been done to meet the measurement of the tithe in the treasury; but this is not the Lord's plan, and if entered upon and continued, will reduce God's blessing to the churches that work upon such a plan. There may be a great dearth of means if there is a departing from the Lord's plan. The Lord regards the tithe as His own, to be used for a certain purpose, and it is an easy matter, in the place of practicing the self-denial that we should, to help in educating students, or in the temporal matters, as providing conveniences for the church, which is necessary, to dip into the Lord's consecrated portion which should be used only to sustain the ministers in new fields as well as in other places. (Manuscript Releases Volume One, page 193)

This matter of giving is not left to impulse. God has given us definite instruction in regard to it. He has specified tithes and offerings as the measure of our obligation. And He desires us to give regularly and systematically. . . . Let each regularly examine his income, which is all a blessing from God, and set apart the tithe as a separate fund, to be sacredly the Lord's. This fund should not in any case be devoted to any other use; it is to be devoted solely to support the ministry of the gospel. (Counsels on Stewardship, pp 80, 81)

Misappropriation of the tithe is reason enough to condemn the trademark lawsuits.

I agree that it is reason enough to condemn the trademark lawsuits.

_____________

Bro. Peter

[skyblue888]

miz3, I am sorry to have to say this but I find you to be very judgmental toward those who disagree with your ideas, especially toward CSDA.

When I disagreed with you that Stan cannot do as he pleases with this forum, I did not mean to imply that he was. Not too long ago, I have stated on one of the threads that this adventist forum was the best that I had ever been on since there was one. I have not found the freedom of expression and of beliefs that I have found here anywhere else. And for that reason alone I have said, "Long live clubadventist."

As far as I can see, Stan has not overreached his prerogatives. I am thankful for this site and I pray that it will continue the way it has for as long as there shall be the internet.

The statement I quoted, "In matters of conscience the soul must be left untrammeled," was not a reflection on the way Stan has been administering this forum. On the contrary. However I quoted it as a reminder that if he ever was tempted to overreach his prerogatives that the Holy Spirit will bring these words to his remembrance as a check whenever tempted to act contrary.

Here is the full statement:

"In matters of conscience the soul must be left untrammeled. No one is to control another's mind, to judge for another, or to prescribe his duty. God gives to every soul freedom to think, and to follow his own convictions. 'Every one of us shall give account of himself to God.' No one has a right to merge his own individuality in that of another. In matters where principle is involved, 'let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.' Rom.14:12,5. In Christ's kindgom there is no lordly oppression, no compulsion of manner. The angels of Heaven do not come to the earth to rule, and to exact homage, but as messengers of mercy, to co-operate with men in uplifting humanity." D.A.550.

Now I believe that clubadventist has been acting very much in harmony with the above and I thank God for it.

My understanding is that by trademarking the SDA name the church has, by the same token, violated every principle of truth found in that beautiful statement.

sky

[Pastor_Chick]

miz3, I am sorry to have to say this but I find you to be very judgmental toward those who disagree with your ideas, especially toward CSDA.

[...]

The statement I quoted, "In matters of conscience the soul must be left untrammeled," was not a reflection on the way Stan has been administering this forum. On the contrary. However I quoted it as a reminder that if he ever was tempted to overreach his prerogatives that the Holy Spirit will bring these words to his remembrance as a check whenever tempted to act contrary.

Here is the full statement:

"In matters of conscience the soul must be left untrammeled. No one is to control another's mind, to judge for another, or to prescribe his duty. God gives to every soul freedom to think, and to follow his own convictions. 'Every one of us shall give account of himself to God.' No one has a right to merge his own individuality in that of another. In matters where principle is involved, 'let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.' Rom.14:12,5. In Christ's kindgom there is no lordly oppression, no compulsion of manner. The angels of Heaven do not come to the earth to rule, and to exact homage, but as messengers of mercy, to co-operate with men in uplifting humanity." D.A.550.

[...]

My understanding is that by trademarking the SDA name the church has, by the same token, violated every principle of truth found in that beautiful statement.

sky

I really do like it when we find agreement, sky.

[skyblue888]

Brother Chick, I agree with you more than you think. I just wish you could see the light on the timing of the judgment of the living. That would help a lot. Also, I wish we could see eye to eye as to the time when the sins of Babylon the Great will have reached unto heaven, when Sunday shall be enforced through the union of church and state.

And that we are never to say, "I am without sin" anymore than we should ever dare to say "I am saved" but that we are always to acknowledge ourselves as the chiefs of sinners because this is the true spirit of the Gospel just as we are to cherish faith and hope.

sky

[Pastor_Chick]

Brother Chick, I agree with you more than you think. I just wish you could see the light on the timing of the judgment of the living. That would help a lot. Also, I wish we could see eye to eye as to the time when the sins of Babylon the Great will have reached unto heaven, when Sunday shall be enforced through the union of church and state.

And that we are never to say, "I am without sin" anymore than we should ever dare to say "I am saved" but that we are always to acknowledge ourselves as the chiefs of sinners because this is the true spirit of the Gospel just as we are to cherish faith and hope.

sky

[skyblue888]

sky Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Brother Chick, I agree with you more than you think. I just wish you could see the light on the timing of the judgment of the living. That would help a lot. Also, I wish we could see eye to eye as to the time when the sins of Babylon the Great will have reached unto heaven, when Sunday shall be enforced through the union of church and state.

And that we are never to say, "I am without sin" anymore than we should ever dare to say "I am saved" but that we are always to acknowledge ourselves as the chiefs of sinners because this is the true spirit of the Gospel just as we are to cherish faith and hope.

sky

_______________________

Exaggeration is a terrible sin. (YI 06-27-95)

I exhort you to quote me accurately.

Originally Posted By: EGW

There were many who came from all parts of the world to see Jesus. They had heard of his fame, and desired to hear his words and see his works. Many who came to him bore the knowledge they had obtained from the wonderful Teacher, to distant nations, and rehearsed to wondering ears the miracles he had wrought. As his sojourn on earth came near its close, he urged upon those who listened to his teaching, the necessity of appreciating the light, and walking in it while they had it. He said to his disciples, "Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you." This admonition is practical to us to-day. It is not safe for us to turn away from the light that Heaven sends to us, although walking in the light sometimes involves a cross. If we make a fire, and walk in the sparks of our own kindling, our darkness will be in proportion to the light so graciously given us. (YI 08-17-93)

_____________________________

Not sure how these statements (esp the one about exageration) apply to what I have said to you in my last post.

The light regarding the timing of the judgment of the living and the light concerning the timing of when the sins of Babylon the Great will have reached unto heaven have clearly been presented to you and to your followers and what did you do with that light?

So far you have shown that the light has been disregarded. Am I right or wrong brother Chick?

sky

[Pastor_Chick]

sky Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Brother Chick, I agree with you more than you think. I just wish you could see the light on the timing of the judgment of the living. That would help a lot. Also, I wish we could see eye to eye as to the time when the sins of Babylon the Great will have reached unto heaven, when Sunday shall be enforced through the union of church and state.

And that we are never to say, "I am without sin" anymore than we should ever dare to say "I am saved" but that we are always to acknowledge ourselves as the chiefs of sinners because this is the true spirit of the Gospel just as we are to cherish faith and hope.

sky

_______________________

Exaggeration is a terrible sin. (YI 06-27-95)

I exhort you to quote me accurately.

Originally Posted By: EGW

There were many who came from all parts of the world to see Jesus. They had heard of his fame, and desired to hear his words and see his works. Many who came to him bore the knowledge they had obtained from the wonderful Teacher, to distant nations, and rehearsed to wondering ears the miracles he had wrought. As his sojourn on earth came near its close, he urged upon those who listened to his teaching, the necessity of appreciating the light, and walking in it while they had it. He said to his disciples, "Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you." This admonition is practical to us to-day. It is not safe for us to turn away from the light that Heaven sends to us, although walking in the light sometimes involves a cross. If we make a fire, and walk in the sparks of our own kindling, our darkness will be in proportion to the light so graciously given us. (YI 08-17-93)

_____________________________

[..]

So far you have shown that the light has been disregarded. Am I right or wrong brother Chick?

sky

sky,

I can unequivocally say this.

I find NO LIGHT in your theories. I see only darkness. I know of which I speak, for the revelation has been given to me from my Father.

You are correct about the evils of trademarking the name and persecuting believers who use the name. Frankly, I am surprised that you take this position, but for the truth of it, I am pleased.

[skyblue888]

Brother Chick, When the SoP clearly tells us that the message contained in Revelation 18 that Babylon the Great has fallen will not be present truth until her sins have reached unto heaven is not my personal theory but the truth and I have provided evidence for that.

And the teaching that the judgment of the living cannot take place until the great final test at the end of the loud cry is not a personal theory but the truth and I have provided the evidence for that.

And to teach that we should never dare to say "I am without sin" anymore than we should never dare to say "I am saved," is not a mere personal theory but the truth and I have also provided the evidence for that.

sky

[Truth#1]

Brothers and sisters of the Seventh Day Adventist Church,

I am one too. Is anybody aware of the Creation Seventh Day

Adventist church, Tennessee Pastor McGill was arrested, and

put in jail on July 17th. Red lands Loma Linda. He fasted in

jail rather than removing the name of "Creation Seventh Day

Adventist church". Fellow believers please Google this church

and the related websites. My Question: Does the church

corporate body, of the General Conference have the right to

sue any entity that carries the Seventh Day Adventist name?

Can any group or individual who believes in the Adventist

belief system as a criteria,have the right to post the SDA

name on building site or one's home. Pastor McGill was

released on 08/11/12, on the Sabbath. How sad. A little

group of worshipers,in an old gas station was torn down on

the orders of the court filed by the General Conference Of

Seventh Day Adventists. Before anyone comes to an

"unreasonable" conclusion, please do your research on the

history of the Seventh Day Adventist name, Spirit of Prophecy

and the trade mark registered with the United States

government. Is the persecution of anyone labelled a

Seventh Day Adventist, from the General Conference Of

Seventh Day Adventists, happen or is it the papal system.

This is very, very serious so please express your views and

concerns to our leaders. How does the world perceive us

Seventh Day Adventists as taking each other to court? What

happened to our Mission to the world?

Please, join the Forum.

John H

[Nic Samojluk]

I see this issue not as a legal question but rather as a moral one. It reminds me of the parable of the two debtors. The man who was forgiven a huge debt failed to show mercy towards another man who owed him a small amount of money.

He had all the legal right to have his debtor incarcerated, but he was condemned because he failed to show mercy. This is probably where we Adventists have failed!

[Jody]

Hello John, This was on youtube, thought it might interest you.