Salvation Lost?

[DblEspresso]

This is a grim first post, I know, but I'm hoping for some Biblical answers.

I accepted Jesus as my savior in June of last year. I was baptized and began faithfully attending church. I was reading my Bible and praying nearly every day. I felt that I was growing closer to God and was happy.

That all changed about two months ago. You see, I've had an addiction to pornography for years (the majority of my life, really). I gladly gave that to the Lord last year when I asked him to cleanse me and become my savior. I thought I was rid of that sin, but about two months ago, I gave in to the temptation and decided to look at just a "little bit". And then a little more. Then I quit attending church, reading my Bible, or praying. I felt terrible, but found myself doing it anyway.

Now I look at porn almost as much as I ever did before salvation. It gives me a temporary feeling of euphoria, but I always regret it afterward. In fact, I pretty much despise myself for it.

I miss going to church. I miss reading my Bible. I miss praying to God. I feel so distant now as though I am stuck further in the mire than I ever was. It's worse now because I know how good my life was the eight months following salvation last year. I feel as if I failed God and myself.

I feel torn and confused. There are two passages in Hebrews that make me feel as if I've completely blown my chance with God.

Quote:

Hebrews 6:4-6

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26-27

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 

I've willfully sinned. I know that looking at porn (adultery in my heart) is wrong, and yet I do it anyway. I tell myself I just don't care. I've tasted of the heavenly gift and the goodness of God, yet I've fallen away.

I don't want to stay in this state. Neither do I believe that God would want me to. However, I just can't get past "it is impossible...to renew them again unto repentance" or "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins".

My mind thinks the most horrible thoughts. I think, if I'm forever doomed now because I've blown it with God, then what's the point? I may as well continue sinning now and enjoy myself while I can.

Surely this can't be it. Have I now lost my salvation because I willfully, and knowingly sinned against God?

Bob

[Kevin H]

It's an addiction like other addictions. You need to find treatment for it. God works with the natural, he works with programs that help addictions. This is why the Seventh=day Adventist Church has hospitals instead of faith healers. Hold on to Jesus he understands, and look for a program that works with pornagraphic addiction

[Gerr]

Friend, there is nothing better that the devil would like for you to think than that you've lost your chance and are beyond help. The only willful sin that God will not and cannot forgive is the one you cling to or won't give up. Did David sin willfully? Manasseh? Samson? Solomon? "...where sin increased, grace abounded all the more," Ro 5:20 ESV. And Jesus assures us, ESV | Jn 6:37 ".... and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." So while the Holy Spirit is still speaking to you, do not delay. Claim His promises, the power, and His victory.

[Dr. Shane]

XXX.Chruch.com is a good place to start. They can help you.

You need to start going back to church. Attend prayer meetings and vespers. Get active with the church. Don't listen to Satan when he tells you that you are a hypocrite. You don't need to tell anyone else in your church about your addiction unless it is someone you are going to use as an accountability partner and you really, really trust them.

Click on that link above. They specialize in porn addiction and will help you.

As far as losing salvation goes... I wouldn't worry about it. Jesus can worry about our salvation for us. What I worry about is walking in the Spirit because I know that He has the best life for me. Porn, like all sin, offers temporary pleasure but in the long run, the Holy Spirit offers us so much more.

God bless.

[Sonny]

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth....

[Sonny]

..look for a program that works with pornagraphic addiction

Any program is only good if it directs one to Christ, period. We can't use our education or wills to overcome sin. Anyone who hints at this is deceived.

[miz3]

I like Shane's advice in this case.

[Parade Orange]

proverbs 16:24

a rightouse man falls seven times but he gets back up again!

its very very hard to get back up again and again and again

GOD calls the man rightouse anyway! GOD knows we fal n fall n fall

but the trick is to going back to GOD for the billionth time and accept HIS GRACE N FORGIVENESS

over and over again and to find a group of men who struggle with this in a 12 step group or a CELEBRATE RECOVERY or SEX ADDICT group

where u can find acceptance and be free to share as CHRIST as your foundation

BTW there are alot of sex addicts here who will never feel safe enough to share here

the church aint safe

cause they dont realize the depths GOD had to go to save em

hopefully u will see the AWSOME MAJESTY AND HUMILTY God reaches down to SAVE YOU every day!

[Israfel]

DBlExpresso, you are a brave and courageous person to come out open about this.

May I ask what church you got baptized into?

In the mean time, I must tell you that a lot of people in the churches today believe in salvation in sin, willful sin, not those things that we don't know about and that God reveals one at a time to the Christian, but this cicle that so many people up there have mentioned to you.

It is a sin-repent cycle. Who can be saved out of that? Therefore many advocate going to a specific group of people that are specialized in different addiction problem to help you (Not that they cannot offer temporary relief and seeming victory).

But Only Christ offers Salvation and He offers it all from Him alone as a package. Know therefore that Victory is IN YAH-SHUA (Yah saves) or Jesus, for "He shall save his people FROM their sins" Matthew 1:21

But what did you receive? Salvation from sin or in sin. The Bible says that " Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9

Do you know that it is a promise, therefore, claim it! And also know that "God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in time of need." Psalm 46:1 The pure and unvarnished truth of the Bible knows no failure. You need to be baptized of the Spirit and into the Church of God on earth.

Many claim to have the Truth, to be God's Church , but only one bride passes the test of Victory over all known sins, and you can join them every Saturday at 1 PM Central time zone on buzzen.com. We are under the name of Creation seventh day adventist church.

May God bless your efforts.

[miz3]

Recruiting Israfel?

Its one thing to give this poor soul advice and council. You did that and that's OK.

The part where you blew it and polluted your wise council was when you said:

You need to be baptized of the Spirit and into the Church of God on earth.

Many claim to have the Truth, to be God's Church , but only one bride passes the test of Victory over all known sins, and you can join them every Saturday at 1 PM Central time zone on buzzen.com. We are under the name of Creation seventh day adventist church.

You demonstrated your foolish fanaticism by your blatant recruiting. The person is in pain and your out there recruiting the poor person like they were a "draft pick". Have you no shame?

Again, this is typical of cult groups. Recruiting is more important than just giving a person some help.

Help the person and then let God lead them to you. No! You fanatics can't do that. Your fanaticism compels you to recruit!

[Parade Orange]

ISRAFEL!

THE RIGHT 12 step meeting is a place and tools that provide VICTORY over sin thru JESUS CHRIST and WHAT HE HAS done for us on the CROSS

and the step group are believers that either are struggling and/or sharing victory!!!!

a good safe CHRIST centered One is almost like CHURCH where worship and gratitude and fellowship is deepened!

GOD BLESS YOU

check it out!

u will heal n grow in JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Israfel]

You are totally lost and mistaken Miz3. I know that nothing will help yourself but "do not prevent those that would enter the Kingdom?"

In the name of Yahshua (Jesus).

[Israfel]

Thank you Parade Orange for explaning about the 12 steps, however my point remains that a group is not the appointed place of God. It may do good.

If you were badly injured and had the choice of going to a makeshift clinic as oppose to a hospital, where would you have more chance of survival? Or going to a source of water or the lake formed by this source, where would life be more abundant?

Again, the 12 step may be of a good support, but the members soon realize that the soul need more than 12 steps, they need an acquaintance with the Messiah Jesus Christ and that is what He offers: continual Victory anywhere, everywhere, at no cost, no charges except to be free from self- destructive sins in the life, like one of my famous authors puts it:

"Obedience is the test of discipleship. It is the keeping of the commandments that proves the sincerity of our professions of love. When the doctrine we accept kills sin in the heart, purifies the soul from defilement, bears fruit unto holiness, we may know that it is the truth of God." [Thoughts From the Mount of Blessing, page 146, paragraph 3]

[Dr. Shane]

Again, the 12 step may be of a good support, but the members soon realize that the soul need more than 12 steps...

You should probably not talk about things that you are not familiar with. Some people may actually follow your advice and die because of it.

12 Step groups are not religion. They do not compete with religion. Anyone suggesting that there is a choice between going to a 12 Step group and going to church doesn't understand a 12 Step group enough to be talking about it. 12 Step groups are a type of therapy. They are not designed nor intended to replace any type of religion.

One can argue all day long about the sinner's need for Christ and that does not take away from the need of some individuals to receive therapy. Many believe that God actually uses therapy to help individuals much like He uses pharmaceuticals or chemo therapy.

[Dr. Shane]

Again, this is typical of cult groups. Recruiting is more important than just giving a person some help.

Very true!

[DblEspresso]

I want to thank each of you for taking the time to respond to a stranger's plea for help.

No doubt some of you are wondering what brought me to this board. Let me start here:

DBlExpresso, you are a brave and courageous person to come out open about this.

May I ask what church you got baptized into?

[Gerr]

Baloney! You haven't fallen away. Your nature loves porn! My nature loves porn...Human nature is human nature. There's nothing good in human nature - not one ounce of good. The essence of sin is self-seeking....

The very fact you feel it's wrong proves God is in your life.

Someone is aware of where he is and wants to get out of the sewer and you are saying he hasn't fallen into the sewer? That that's just human nature, I can continue in this besetting sin and still claim to be in a state of salvation? If that is what you are saying, then that is sick!

[ClubV12]

I don't see it that way Gerry, I think Sonny makes a good point.

Our nature is sinful, we do love sin. The very fact that someone is reaching out for help does indeed show that the Spirit is working in them, that all is not lost.

So, we recognize we are drawn to sin, that doesn't mean were lost at all. It means we see ourselves as we are, sinful being's. Steps to Christ is the best book for the steps to take to get on the path, or get back on the path. Give our will to God is one of the first steps. Though our faith, our will, as tiny as a mustard seed, God will water and strengthen it.

Shane also makes an excellent point. God works His miracles through people helping people. It is the "work" we are given to do on this planet while we wait for His return. He could have given this work to the angels, He chose to give it to man.

Any addiction requires a decided effort to break away from. There are practical everyday steps that need to be taken. One possible step is this 12 Step thing Shane mentions, I don't know anything about it.

Another practical step is diet!! We have much counsel from Ellen White on the importance of diet, not just for physical health, but for mental health. Mental clairity. Avoiding stimulating foods and drinks is a good place to start. Get on a simple diet and your strength of will will increase, help that mustard seed grow.

Exercise, get outside more, fresh air. Get around people. Excellent advice to get back to church! Prayer meeting, vespars. Allow yourself no time to be idle. Fill every moment with something productive.

Strictly limit computer use as this is the primary inroad to temptation. The 12 Step program no doubt would address this. A preferred method over a "web based" method would be stop computer use entirely, but that would go hand in hand with a human being counselor to hold you accountable. Like the drunkard who must quit, totally quit, using drink, even a little bit of drink. Sometimes, you just gotta cut it off, stop it already (computer use). At the very least, clean the hard drive, clear out the history, clear out the cache, clear out any porn. Yes, I know you will go back and try to find that web site you like so much, or a new one. OK, clear out the cache AGAIN. Erase AGAIN. Don't stop, KEEP erasing, KEEP deleting, stay with it!

Ellen Whites counsel on diet and foods offers an abundance of help for all of us in regards to improving our will, our faith. To often we overlook it as opinion, or see it as "legalistic". Truly, it is neither. It is rock solid advice for a lifestyle designed to over come sin and draw closer to Jesus. It is one of many "steps" along the path to a stronger connection with the Lord.

[Igakusei]

Spank your (other) monkey.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted By: Sonny

Baloney! You haven't fallen away. Your nature loves porn! My nature loves porn...Human nature is human nature. There's nothing good in human nature - not one ounce of good. The essence of sin is self-seeking....

The very fact you feel it's wrong proves God is in your life.

Someone is aware of where he is and wants to get out of the sewer and you are saying he hasn't fallen into the sewer? That that's just human nature, I can continue in this besetting sin and still claim to be in a state of salvation? If that is what you are saying, then that is sick!

Here's what he said: "I've willfully sinned. I know that looking at porn (adultery in my heart) is wrong, and yet I do it anyway. I tell myself I just don't care. I've tasted of the heavenly gift and the goodness of God, yet I've fallen away.

Gerry he has fallen into a habit - besetting sin, but he hasn't fallen away as he stated. To fall away is to be lost. It is to harden your heart against Christ - it is to reject one's need of Christ both as our ticket to heaven (what He did 2000 years ago) and our helper with temptation.

The man isn't fallen away. He isn't cut off from Christ. That's all I said. Chill!

[skyblue888]

ISRAFEL!

THE RIGHT 12 step meeting is a place and tools that provide VICTORY over sin thru JESUS CHRIST and WHAT HE HAS done for us on the CROSS and the step group are believers that either are struggling and/or sharing victory!!!!

a good safe CHRIST centered One is almost like CHURCH where worship and gratitude and fellowship is deepened!

GOD BLESS YOU

_______________________________________

check it out!

u will heal n grow in JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

12 steps to victory in Christ!!!

There is only one way to forgiveness and victory.

"Faith is the condition upon which God has seen fit to promise pardon to sinners. Not that there is any virtue in faith whereby salvation is merited, but because faith can lay hold of the merits of Christ, the remedy provided for sin." F.W.100,101.

What is the remedy provided for sin? The 12 Step Program? No sir. Lay hold by faith of the merits of Jesus Christ. How does one lay hold of the merits of Jesus Christ? By claiming them. That is faith, even living faith! (F.W.64)

"Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept His merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved (from sin) than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93.

"The only way to attain to righteousness (forgiveness and victory over sin) is through faith. By faith he (the sinner) can bring to God the merits of Christ." F.W.101.

I suppose this is too simple a matter to be the best advise one could give to anyone who is struggling with sin but make no mistake, unless with the simple faith of a little child we come to God just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, believing that "the merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf" (S.C.36) in order to receive pardon and peace and joy and light in the Holy Spirit, we cannot be saved. In other words, we cannot experience true forgivness and go on from grace to grace, from strength to strength, and from victory to victory.

sky

[Gerr]

I don't see it that way Gerry, I think Sonny makes a good point.

Our nature is sinful, we do love sin. The very fact that someone is reaching out for help does indeed show that the Spirit is working in them, that all is not lost.

So, we recognize we are drawn to sin, that doesn't mean were lost at all.

If by lost, you mean permanently lost, as in no more hope? Then I would agree with you. NO ONE is is lost forever until they die having given up on God. But let me ask you this, am I, are you, in a state of salvation while knowingly clinging to and practising what we know to be sin?

[skyblue888]

Gerry he has fallen into a habit - besetting sin, but he hasn't fallen away as he stated. To fall away is to be lost. It is to harden your heart against Christ - it is to reject one's need of Christ both as our ticket to heaven (what He did 2000 years ago) and our helper with temptation.

The man isn't fallen away. He isn't cut off from Christ. That's all I said. Chill!

________________________________

The man is simply going through the Romans 7 experience. The man of Romans 7 is a church member, may have been for years and years. So please brother, read that chapter again with that in mind and hang your helpless soul upon the merits of your Redeemer and you will find peace and rest for your soul.

"The sinner must ever look toward Calvary: and with the simple faith of a little child, he must rest in the merits of Christ, accepting His righteousness and believing in His mercy." Evangelism, p.185.

For the simple reason that as we lay hold by faith of the all-sufficient merits of Christ's infinite sacrifice, His rghteousness is brought into the life and it accomplishes everything as it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. See T.M.92; F.W.65,66.

So no need for the 12 Step program or any other human devising if you believe from the heart that "the merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in your behalf." S.C.36. If you believe this from the heart, you are believing unto righteousness. (Rom.10:10)

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." 5 T 744

This is our lifebusiness.

sky

[Gerr]

Gerry:

Someone is aware of where he is and wants to get out of the sewer and you are saying he hasn't fallen into the sewer? That that's just human nature, I can continue in this besetting sin and still claim to be in a state of salvation? If that is what you are saying, then that is sick!

Sonny:

Here's what he said: "I've willfully sinned. I know that looking at porn (adultery in my heart) is wrong, and yet I do it anyway. I tell myself I just don't care. I've tasted of the heavenly gift and the goodness of God, yet I've fallen away.

Gerry he has fallen into a habit - besetting sin, but he hasn't fallen away as he stated. To fall away is to be lost. It is to harden your heart against Christ - it is to reject one's need of Christ both as our ticket to heaven (what He did 2000 years ago) and our helper with temptation.

The man isn't fallen away. He isn't cut off from Christ. That's all I said. Chill!

Thanks for the clarification. That's why I qualified my statement with - "If that is what you are saying...." I would agree that when we sin, we are NOT permanently cut off from Christ. No, no. "Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

[ClubV12]

Of course not Gerry. I thank God that even while I am in a position of known sin He still calls me. If He can't speak to me in blessings received, He will speak in blessings removed.

It will take time to overcome any addicition. During that battle I accept on faith that God loves me just as I am. I will hold onto Him like Jacob wrestling with the angel, I won't let Him go until I have a blessing of increased will and faith to overcome.

In this case, the blessing removed, are the recognition that you have separated yourself from God. You feel it, you know it, it is NOT a good feeling. You had a taste of blessing received and you want to and can get back on that path. While your getting there, know this, God loves you and He will work for you. He is still calling you, give Him your will and your faith. Make a decided real world effort to follow what He has layed out, His plan. When you've fallen and you can't get up and all seems to be lost, THAT is when righteouness by faith is what you hold onto. Do not give up!