cheddar Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Originally Posted By: cheddar I like how you referred to the 4th beast as Satan's kingdom. If we read in Isa. 14, Lucifer is referred to as the 'king of Babylon'. Ancient Babylon is a type of the kingdom of Babylon spoken of in Revelation. -Nebuchadnezzar was king of Babylon -> Satan is king of the final Babylon -Nebuchadnezzar set up a golden image and commanded everyone to worship it -> Satan will set up an image to the beast and command the world to worship it -Nebuchadnezzar tried to kill anyone who didn't worship the image -> Satan will also kill all who don't worship the image and receive the mark -Nebuchadnezzar's image had 2 sixes (height 60, width 6) -> Satan's number of the beast will have 3 sixes And despite all of that, Nebuchadnezzar is saved and will be in the Kingdom....NICE Antitypes do not always meet every detail of their 'type'. Please show where John the Baptist met every detail of Elijah's life. At least in this scenario (great image) all 4 metals would be destroyed at the 2nd coming. Where as this cannot be said with Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome (all 4 are already destroyed). But this is OK, historical adherents just symbolize away clear biblical details that don't fit with their beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thanks for sharing/posting that article I wrote on "The Whore of Babylon = Papal Rome but not the Antichrist??" John317! I didn't see that you posted it till just now! Yeah, that article was the fruit after a lot of scratching my head with dispensationalists who kept stating that the Papal System is the Harlot, but not the Antichrist. After a year of research on that matter, I'm fully convinced they are 2 aspects of the same entity, including all the political forces which are intimately connected with her. One thing that hits home is that the Harlot Woman represents "Babylon" in Revelation 17. Yet in Revelation 13, the beast has a "mouth of a lion". That's practically the mouth of "Babylon", since the Lion in Daniel 7 represents Babylon. John is simply depicting the same entity from different angles and different controversies containing varying issues over time. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 24, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 24, 2011 ... the conclusion, which is in error. ... OK, why do you think the conclusion is in error? You're saying that you don't believe "the Papacy is the Antichrist/Little Horn/Beast of Daniel and Revelation"? Who then do you believe those powers to be? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 24, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 24, 2011 ... I am only interested in why you believe something not why someone you agree with believes something. I read everything you say when you say it. ...Don't be lazy and let someone else do your work for you. You are smart, well read and well spoken; do it yourself. I've written on this topic dozens of time on the Forum already, so I thought I would let someone else talk about it for a while. The article was written by Lysimachus. I think it's very well done. Where do you disagree and why? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 24, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thanks for sharing/posting that article I wrote on "The Whore of Babylon = Papal Rome but not the Antichrist??" John317! I didn't see that you posted it till just now! You're certainly welcome. I liked it so well, I thought it would be good to share it with our members on CA. It is definitely on topic in this discussion. :-) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Originally Posted By: Musicman1228 ... the conclusion, which is in error. ... OK, why do you think the conclusion is in error? You're saying that you don't believe "the Papacy is the Antichrist/Little Horn/Beast of Daniel and Revelation"? Who then do you believe those powers to be? Satan himself is the original and only true Antichrist. He is the second beast of Rev. 13. Roman power which included civil law along with the political clout of the Universal Church at that time (Catholic) has long since ceased to be and will never be in power again no matter how one slices or dices it. Sure, the Catholic religion is the 'mother church' to which ALL other christian type of denominations received their 'birth', but NONE of them have any civil authority or power which force their dictates to anyone, not even to their own members. It was this Roman Power that killed those who refused to bow down to their way that has long been destroyed. While Martin Luther and many others thought this power was the Antichrist and taught that this was or had to be the little horn (which it was in Daniel, but not in Revelation), this same belief has been preached as only a tradition, but not the real truth. And yes, the Catholic Church as well as ALL of the Protestant Christian denominations, are evil and have received their power from the ONE true AntiChrist, Satan. How did they do this? They did it by becoming the 'tares' Jesus prophecied about in Rev. 13. In fact, the real truth became lost during the 'dark ages' but was restored as prophesied in Dan. 8:14 when the SDA church got it's start in 1844. The first beast of Rev. 13 has been given it's authority to control the people by the second beast who is Satan. The first beast is one set up by the people who receive their power to control by helenistic (the leopard) ways of accepting everyone's religion (the 7 heads who speak blaspemy) as long as the people agree with the rules and regulation set up by this beast. Interestingly, it will be the beast with the fatal wound (the Zionest Jews) that assumes great power by their control of the money, that forces all of the rest of the heads to follow after the whole beast, that being the ONE World Order. And that is the way I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 24, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 24, 2011 Satan himself is the original and only true Antichrist. He is the second beast of Rev. 13. The beasts are not Satan himself but powers that Satan uses and control. It's impossible for the second beast of REv. 13 to be Satan himself. If the first beast is papal Rome, which I believe it is, then the second beast has to be the USA. Based on the belief that the USA was the second beast, it was predicted clear back in the 1860s that the USA would become a great world power and would support the papacy. At that time the papacy was almost nothing, and because of Rev. 13, it was predicted that Papal Rome would re-emerge as a great world power. All this is happening just as prophecy predicted. How can you be so blind as not to see this? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich Satan himself is the original and only true Antichrist. He is the second beast of Rev. 13. The beasts are not Satan himself but powers that Satan uses and control. It's impossible for the second beast of REv. 13 to be Satan himself. If the first beast is papal Rome, which I believe it is, then the second beast has to be the USA. Based on the belief that the USA was the second beast, it was predicted clear back in the 1860s that the USA would become a great world power and would support the papacy. At that time the papacy was almost nothing, and because of Rev. 13, it was predicted that Papal Rome would re-emerge as a great world power. All this is happening just as prophecy predicted. How can you be so blind as not to see this? Dan. 12:10 says that only those with insight will see and undertand end time events so I already know why you don't understand Rev. 9 and about Satan who is released from the EARTH to rule the last five months of this earth's history. If you keep following after the words of those who are now long dead, you clearly are thumbing your nose at what God said in Dan. 12:10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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