Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 15, 2011 Members Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'm not going to say very much about the resignations at LSU. Suffice it to say that there are always two sides to every issue. And "transparency" isn't always a good thing. I don't like to see the LSU President and LSU Board members trashed on C/A or in Spectrum Magazine. Neither C/A members or Spectrum has access to the entire issue at hand. Just for the record, the LSU President and a number of the LSU Board members are personal friends of mine who I've known for 40 - 50 years. That's probably why I'm feeling a bit protective and would prefer for people not to speculate on the matter. "Righteous indignation" and being judgmental in an issue that does not immediately concern one, can turn around and bite one in the butt...or at the very least, insert a foot into one's oral orifice.. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 The recorded conversation included: "...foul language, references to alcohol consumption and unflattering comments being made about board members, administrators, and church leaders..." Four guys watching a ball game, drinking some wine and "trash talking" leadership, it happens every Sunday somewhere in America. They recorded it THEMSELVES. They turned in the tape THEMSELVES, to leadership. There is no one to blame for "entrapment" or "ease dropping", they said what they said. They were given an opportunity to go public and refute or explain the accusations, they chose to resign instead. Unless the Spectrum article and it's quotes on the subject are outright lies, this case is closed. There is no "other side" argument of the facts that have been presented. It is sad, there is no rejoicing, it could have happened to any number of us. It is SO easy to get "caught up" in the moment when among friends and "trash talk" all kinds of subjects, people, the Government, work, colleagues, etc. Especially when your already hyped up by watching a sports game on TV. It's the perfect setting for all kinds of gnarly "man talk" (and beer for the blue collar guys, wine for the white collar guys). Thats just reality. That whole trash talk, beer/wine drinking sports scene is why I sold my race car and got out of racing. I can't hang with that crowd anymore, I find myself quickly drawn right into that talk. It's a "guy thing", that, is the other side of this story, it aint pretty and they don't want to talk about it. I don't blame them for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 15, 2011 Members Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'm not going to say very much about the resignations at LSU. Suffice it to say that there are always two sides to every issue. And "transparency" isn't always a good thing. I don't like to see the LSU President and LSU Board members trashed on C/A or in Spectrum Magazine. Neither C/A members or Spectrum has access to the entire issue at hand. Just for the record, the LSU President and a number of the LSU Board members are personal friends of mine who I've known for 40 - 50 years. That's probably why I'm feeling a bit protective and would prefer for people not to speculate on the matter. "Righteous indignation" and being judgmental in an issue that does not immediately concern one, can turn around and bite one in the butt...or at the very least, insert a foot into one's oral orifice.. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 you mean we can watch sports shows now? where was I when the church said u can do that? Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'm not going to say very much about the resignations at LSU. Suffice it to say that there are always two sides to every issue. And "transparency" isn't always a good thing. I don't like to see the LSU President and LSU Board members trashed on C/A or in Spectrum Magazine. Neither C/A members or Spectrum has access to the entire issue at hand. Just for the record, the LSU President and a number of the LSU Board members are personal friends of mine who I've known for 40 - 50 years. That's probably why I'm feeling a bit protective and would prefer for people not to speculate on the matter. "Righteous indignation" and being judgmental in an issue that does not immediately concern one, can turn around and bite one in the butt...or at the very least, insert a foot into one's oral orifice.. I had also spoken to one of the board members less than 2 wks ago whom I had also known in college. I believe in his sterling character. With regards to the evolution issue, he was very much aware and concerned about the consequences of an outright firing to the careers of the professors involved, so he was very careful and adamant about DUE PROCESS. So I am quite certain that due process would have been followed unless there was something else involved that was quite serious. As for Spectrum, I cancelled my subscription something like 20 years ago. I had little respect for what I perceived then as a leftist and anti-EGW bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 [ As for Spectrum, I cancelled my subscription something like 20 years ago. I had little respect for what I perceived then as a leftist and anti-EGW bias. Indeed the "big left tent" only really works "for the left". in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 There is no question in my mind this is indirectly related to the biology issue. The accreditation was the primary focus of the first conversation in an authorized meeting. That is directly related to the original issue. The subsequent "bad blood" and negative opinion expressed in the second conversation were related to what to do about accreditation. Go secular perhaps? But more to the point, it sounds like the language and use of alcohol were in violation of fundamental rules of employment. Perhaps that in itself is sufficient grounds for termination, and rightly so. More than that, making that conversation public would be enormously embarrasing, I'd likely sign a resignation in that case myself. In effect, they done shot themselves in the foot. Recording themselves and then turning in the tape without realizing what they had done. A comedy of errors or "revelation" of some kind? Indeed an "Act of God" the way that all turned out - even Bradley admits it is a "3 stooges" blunder where they had no one to blame but themselves. That does not happen every day. God is not mocked according to Galatians 6. Hopefully the SDA upper Admin (above the LSU board for the sake of confidentiality) will be listening to that audio to get a full understanding of just how deep this rabbit hole goes. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 As to my comment about sports. I personally can't do that anymore, lots of people can. My experience has been, when watching sports with a group of men, is that the environment creates an atmosphere I no longer feel comfortable with. I don't care for all the "manly talk" and the combative spirit it seems to generate. I was into that scene for a long time, like an alcoholic, I need to withdraw from it entirely because I can't seem to find a balance. Perhaps in time that will change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 The recorded conversation included:"...foul language, references to alcohol consumption and unflattering comments being made about board members, administrators, and church leaders..." Four guys watching a ball game, drinking some wine and "trash talking" leadership, it happens every Sunday somewhere in America. It is true "four guys" in America might be inclined to share some beers, plot against the LSU board or the AAA directive, insult the denomination, as well as insult LSU board members while watching a sporting event. But would they be Christian? Would they be SDA Christian? Would they be SDA leaders in a Christian University? If so - then we need a drastic change of course if we expect to survive the 2nd Coming. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 <It is true "four guys" in America might be inclined to share some beers, plot against the LSU board or the AAA directive, insult the denomination, as well as insult LSU board members while watching a sporting event. But would they be Christian? Would they be SDA Christian? Would they be SDA leaders in a Christian University? If so - then we need a drastic change of course if we expect to survive the 2nd Coming.> Let us who is without sin, cast the first stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Bob's questions and the scenario presented are valid, let each "man" answer in his own heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 15, 2011 Members Share Posted June 15, 2011 Bob's questions and the scenario presented are valid, let each "man" answer in his own heart. I agree with most if not everything that Bob says. But I have to disagree about everything that is to the left is bad, maybe he didn't mean it that way, but that's the way I took it. I for one have always, by most of my friends, been considered to be on the left. But I have no liking for Spectrum Magazine. And also to say that people getting together to watch sports also puts them on the left, is also not right. That just tells me that those on the right don't like sports? Don't cus? Don't drink? I don't believe that for one minute. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The recorded conversation included:"...foul language, references to alcohol consumption and unflattering comments being made about board members, administrators, and church leaders..." Four guys watching a ball game, drinking some wine and "trash talking" leadership, it happens every Sunday somewhere in America. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo [ As for Spectrum, I cancelled my subscription something like 20 years ago. I had little respect for what I perceived then as a leftist and anti-EGW bias. Indeed the "big left tent" only really works "for the left". In that post I am simply pointing out that the claim to be the "big tent" turns out in real life to only be a claim about being the "big left tent". I do not claim that every idea that comes from the left is evil. I do insist however that the four that resigned are apparently not the kind of guys that SDA parents want teaching their students or managing their schools. Which leads us to question all the "high praise" that has been dished out for LSU recently given the high positions in compromise as suggested by these resignations. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 As for Spectrum, I cancelled my subscription something like 20 years ago. I had little respect for what I perceived then as a leftist and anti-EGW bias. So true. It's beyond me why anyone would even quote from this anti-Adventist cult magazine; and call it an "Adventist source." Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I'm not going to say very much about the resignations at LSU. Suffice it to say that there are always two sides to every issue. And "transparency" isn't always a good thing. I don't like to see the LSU President and LSU Board members trashed on C/A or in Spectrum Magazine. Neither C/A members or Spectrum has access to the entire issue at hand. Just for the record, the LSU President and a number of the LSU Board members are personal friends of mine who I've known for 40 - 50 years. That's probably why I'm feeling a bit protective and would prefer for people not to speculate on the matter. "Righteous indignation" and being judgmental in an issue that does not immediately concern one, can turn around and bite one in the butt...or at the very least, insert a foot into one's oral orifice.. Pam; this was well said. Best post so far in this topic! Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Originally Posted By: ClubV12 Bob's questions and the scenario presented are valid, let each "man" answer in his own heart. I agree with most if not everything that Bob says. But I have to disagree about everything that is to the left is bad, maybe he didn't mean it that way, but that's the way I took it. I for one have always, by most of my friends, been considered to be on the left. But I have no liking for Spectrum Magazine. And also to say that people getting together to watch sports also puts them on the left, is also not right. That just tells me that those on the right don't like sports? Don't cus? Don't drink? I don't believe that for one minute. What on earth is all this left and right business? What does it mean to be a left or right Adventist? Boy; people keep inventing new kinds of Adventists every day! Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 18, 2011 Members Share Posted June 18, 2011 What on earth is all this left and right business? What does it mean to be a left or right Adventist? Boy; people keep inventing new kinds of Adventists every day! Exactly OA, that's my point, what does it mean to be left or right? And left or right from what? And who's to say that left of center is wrong, or that right of center is correct. I base this on the saying that to be on the left makes you a liberal or to be on the right makes you a conservative? Why because someone said so many years ago. My point is that on any given situation people can be liberal or conservative, and than be the exact opposite on another point. Anyway as you can see I have a real problem with these labels. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo [ As for Spectrum, I cancelled my subscription something like 20 years ago. I had little respect for what I perceived then as a leftist and anti-EGW bias. Indeed the "big left tent" only really works "for the left". in Christ, Bob This ^^ Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I sympathize with rudywoofs, these fellows being friends and all. And I've given it some thought as to what the other side of "two sides to the story" could be. Some reasonable excuse for their behaviour, some extenuating circumstances, some reason to just chalk it up to "boys will be boys", some justification for this, something to offer them other than resignation? I'm drawing a blank.... I have no idea how the SDA right/left thing works, but I'll keep one eye peeled on that. I haven't got a clue which side I'm on yet. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted June 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 19, 2011 Curiouser and curiouser! Indeed. First the unfortunate events concerning Mr Koranteng-Pipim and now this! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 You don't maybe they all be human...like the rest of us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted June 20, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 20, 2011 It's just curious that both incidents happened so close together considering the relationship between Michigan conference and LSU. Can both sides in the great Adventist divide learn something? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I was referring to the fact that we all are human and make mistakes, not your remarks, twas just trying to 'lighten' the comments and put more into reality of life. Yes, the association you are making is curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 A lot of sports and men that are into them are not like you describe at all. You must live in a rough neigborhood Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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