Members phkrause Posted June 25, 2011 Members Share Posted June 25, 2011 There is definitely a chill wind blowing. Obviously some will say its a good thing. The result, I say, is that we will inevitably become more inward focused. We will focus more on our internal disagreements rather than the mission at hand. That is a good point lazarus. I was thinking the same thing OA. I can remember back a few decades, hearing that this will be what causing the shaking period that EGW speaks of. I think/believe that we've enter this faze of the churche. I see this all over the church and you can see it here also. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted June 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 25, 2011 It's interesting to see how the dysfunction in the US political system is being mirrored in our church. Let me make a prediction: The SDA tea party movement will go the way of the secular Tea Party movement. The end result will just be polarization and further paralysis. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 It's interesting to see how the dysfunction in the US political system is being mirrored in our church. Let me make a prediction: The SDA tea party movement will go the way of the secular Tea Party movement. The end result will just be polarization and further paralysis. I think that here; you stray a little off-base Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I guess I'm the odd man out here. I think it is a GOOD thing! Why should MY tithe be used to support a Seventh-day Adventist professor(s) plotting against a church institution? If you don't think they were "plotting" (and I do), then why should I support professors that question creation and instead promote evolution? And if you don't think they support evolution. Why should I support professors that "only drink a little bit", and only "curse" a little bit? I shouldn't, I won't. When I mentioned in an earlier post perhaps it's a "good thing" LSU SHOULD consider removing itself from the Adventist network, I meant it. IF the faculty and leadership are unable to deal with these issues then please, DO remove the school from being supported by MY tithe. OR, handle the problem, enforce, by resignation or firing or whatever it takes at least minimum standards. ....or count my support withdrawn. IS this the tip of the ice berg? Let the "inquistion" continue, time to clean house. Or sell the house and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I guess I'm the odd man out here. I think it is a GOOD thing! Why should MY tithe be used to support a Seventh-day Adventist professor(s) plotting against a church institution? If you don't think they were "plotting" (and I do), then why should I support professors that question creation and instead promote evolution? And if you don't think they support evolution. Why should I support professors that "only drink a little bit", and only "curse" a little bit? I shouldn't, I won't. When I mentioned in an earlier post perhaps it's a "good thing" LSU SHOULD consider removing itself from the Adventist network, I meant it. IF the faculty and leadership are unable to deal with these issues then please, DO remove the school from being supported by MY tithe. OR, handle the problem, enforce, by resignation or firing or whatever it takes at least minimum standards. ....or count my support withdrawn. IS this the tip of the ice berg? Let the "inquistion" continue, time to clean house. Or sell the house and be done with it. Hmmm; it's not really "your" tithe money. "Odd man out" might be quite fitting. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I wouldn't stop paying tithe regardless of what the organized church does with the money. My "gift" is to God, what "man" does with it is on his head. But the question is certainly valid, needs to be asked, needs to be shouted from the rooftops! It is "MY" tithe being used to suppport LSU. I, "we", do indeed have a say in the way an SDA tithe supported institution does business. In this case, "tithe" is just a word that also covers donations to any given work and offerings. Today the general offering was conference supported education. I placed my offering in an envelope and marked it for something else. For the time being, I'm not at all interested in making an offering to higher, so called, Adventist education. You can be sure I'm not the only member out there "voting with his wallet". Ad for being the odd man out, there is mercy and justice. Mercy was they were offered the opportunity to resign, which they wisely accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 People who "vote with their wallet" don't "vote." Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Is it the general consensus of this thread that the professors in this case were "abused" in some way? Is it the consensus that these "poor fellows" should be allowed to keep their jobs, "good men" that they are? OA you may have missed the point about members "voting with their wallet" but you can be rest assured LSU hasn't missed the point! Neither has the Conference or the General Conference! A management team of a company, private or public, has a moral, ethical and legal responsibility to listen to the "share holders". There is virtually no doubt, if you looked at the donations to LSU, it has taken a marked drop in the last year or so as a result of this on-going fiasco with it's leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Is it the general consensus of this thread that the professors in this case were "abused" in some way? Is it the consensus that these "poor fellows" should be allowed to keep their jobs, "good men" that they are? OA you may have missed the point about members "voting with their wallet" but you can be rest assured LSU hasn't missed the point! Neither has the Conference or the General Conference! A management team of a company, private or public, has a moral, ethical and legal responsibility to listen to the "share holders". There is virtually no doubt, if you looked at the donations to LSU, it has taken a marked drop in the last year or so as a result of this on-going fiasco with it's leadership. Well; I don't know 'bout you, but I AM NOT A 'SHAREHOLDER,' but I still think these impostors should be given the boot. We shouldn't be considering doing it "with our wallets" but rather, stop being so frightened of calling something sin, when it is clearly sin; and start to deal with it "redemptively" such as the disfellowshipping procedure is geared for. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I agree with the fundamentals of how to address "sin". In this case, I think the action was appropriate. I do hope the end result of that process is for these and other individuals with a like mind set to re-think their position. I'm sure there are folks who make donations or "offerings" to Seventh-day Adventist institutions that are not members of the church. I would consider all members of the SDA church "share holders" in the work of the church, with a voice in how that work is carried out, but thats just my opinion on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I guess I'm the odd man out here. I think it is a GOOD thing! Why should MY tithe be used to support a Seventh-day Adventist professor(s) plotting against a church institution? If you don't think they were "plotting" (and I do), then why should I support professors that question creation and instead promote evolution? And if you don't think they support evolution. Why should I support professors that "only drink a little bit", and only "curse" a little bit? I shouldn't, I won't. . Indeed - in that audio - Dan Jackson claims that they are like Pastors during the meeting with about 100 faculty and staff at LSU. What a tragedy then the horrible behavior that follows when these four guys think they are not recording themselves. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 26, 2011 Members Share Posted June 26, 2011 It is "MY" tithe being used to suppport [sic] LSU. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think "tithe" is used to support schools. Originally Posted By: OA start to deal with it "redemptively" such as the disfellowshipping procedure is geared for. And just what would disfellowshipping do? (Aside from making some people feel superior?) For the record, I think what the professors said (that was recorded) was stupid, crass, and inappropriate in any venue. I think LSU was right in giving them the option of resigning. But I don't think a continuing bake-off is necessary. Quote Pam      Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I think you meant white-wash, instead of bake-off Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 26, 2011 Members Share Posted June 26, 2011 Quote Pam      Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 The term 'illegal' was carefully chosen and accurate, and applies to the recording and dissemination of the conversation. The law in California requires *written* consent from all participants. Quote Pickle Pickle Publishing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 31, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2011 Well, it'll be tested in court now, so I guess we'll see... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 People who are disingenuous in teaching beliefs contrary to the beliefs of the institution that hired them ought to be fired, or have the integrity to step down. Court? Bah. We are near the breaking point when we care only for what is "legal" and nothing for what is lawful. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I have no liking for Spectrum Magazine. I think it is a tool of the devil. It is a gossip rag used to stir up strife and create a spirit of unhappiness. I have no time for it. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Well, it'll be tested in court now, so I guess we'll see... Do we have to wait until a judge decides before we look at the statute and see what it says? I think you should either back up your original statement that the recording was illegal, or retract your statement, especially given that someone has sued. I know of folks out there who have sued those who, supposedly, said that they did something illegal, claiming that it was defamation per se. Quote Pickle Pickle Publishing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 31, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2011 Perhaps if the organisation itself was willing to be a bit more open there'd be no need for it. As it is, crucial, major decisions effecting all SDAs are made behind closed doors and Spectrum is sometimes the only way for members to be informed. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 31, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2011 I am not a lawyer. My comment was that I believed the dissemination of the recording to be illegal. I could be wrong. But that's what the courts are *for* - testing and applying the law. With all due respect, Internet forum discussions are not the arbiter of what is legal. If the court decides that what happened was legal, I'll be delighted to recant my comments and apologise. Will you do the same if the court upholds the charge? Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 31, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2011 And olger, to some extent I agree with you, but the point is that they were - according to the university and the church - *not* fired for what they were teaching (only one of them was a lecturer anyway). They were fired for other things. While we're thinking about what's right, how about the truth? Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Perhaps if the organisation itself was willing to be a bit more open there'd be no need for it. As it is, crucial, major decisions effecting all SDAs are made behind closed doors and Spectrum is sometimes the only way for members to be informed. But why can't Spectrum keep members informed without attacking Adventist beliefs, such as a literal 6-day creation? Why do they have to promote apostasy as well as keep people informed? Quote Pickle Pickle Publishing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 31, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2011 Incidentally, I was offered a high profile position at an SDA university this week and reluctantly turned it down because I don't feel able to support doctrine in all respects. I have some sympathy for the view that those who work for the organisation ought to be able to. But underhanded enforcement tactics don't redound well... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: pkrause I have no liking for Spectrum Magazine. I think it is a tool of the devil. It is a gossip rag used to stir up strife and create a spirit of unhappiness. I have no time for it. Shane correct. Lord better. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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