Moderators John317 Posted August 1, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2011 No matter what their beliefs are, as long as people are willing to play by the rules and try hard to be loving and thoughtful toward others, we want them to stick around here, don't we? I'm hoping that's how everyone feels. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Thats certainly true John! Gerry offers a good take on why some continue to come to church who don't believe: "Not every attender can endorse all the 28 fundamentals, but have enough commonality with SDAs and too much of a gulf with other denominations that they feel more kinship with SDAs than with others." For MEMBERS who openly admit they don't believe the 28, can they hold office? Be an Elder? A Deacon? A Sabbath School teacher? Be employed by one of our institutions? A Janitor? Does the church "draw the line" somewhere as an official position? I understand individual churches may have varying standards. I think this applies specifically to those who were let go at LSU, but the question is more general in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 The answer to those questions lies mostly with the local church. I am sure there are many teaching children's sabbath school classes or acting as Pathfinder leaders that may not believe in Ellen White or the sanctuary doctrine. As long as they are not trying to actively sow seeds of doubt with others, they are not likely to have any problems serving the church in elected positions. Ultimately it is up to the local church. One local church will probably allow something that another one will not. As far as working for the church, or one of our institutions, where a person is in an instructional position, I think they do need to agree with all our fundamental beliefs. If they are a janitor or a cook, I don't think they even need to be an Adventist. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 1, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2011 (It's possible CV12 addressed me as 'Tom' above, but I'll let him clarify) Can't find it now, but the job description for the job I was 'headhunted' for had 'be a committed, practicing member of the SDA church who supports its beliefs' or words to that effect as the first requirement, which is one reason I felt I had to turn it down. I think if people get outside their own heads they will realise that perhaps 90% of SDAs in the world disagree with one or other of the 28 fundamentals, at least if they are strictly defined. Whether that's caffiene, EGW, IJ, origins or whatever: if the test is absolute doctrinal purity, you'd have a *much* tinier church. Maybe the purists would be happy with that, I don't know. Employment is a different issue, but I've definitely been seeing the notion in this thread that one does not belong in church (or here) unless one is 'doctrinally correct'. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Turns out we may not be given an oral test of 28 questions on judgement day as a pass/fail. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Can't find it now, but the job description for the job I was 'headhunted' for had 'be a committed, practicing member of the SDA church who supports its beliefs' or words to that effect as the first requirement, which is one reason I felt I had to turn it down. Was the to be The Dean of the Medical School at the University of Adventistan? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Turns out we may not be given an oral test of 28 questions on judgement day as a pass/fail. That's good to know. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 1, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted August 1, 2011 Was the to be The Dean of the Medical School at the University of Adventistan? Medical is not really one of my strengths, but janitor at the University of Adventistan would be an honour... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I wonder what the percentage of membership is that has a problem with one or more of the "28"? I suspect it's fairly small actually. My earlier comment was a response to Tom who was wondering why I "hang here" when so many people disagree with me or my take on SDA theology. That was his response to my question wondering why people got to church if they don't believe in the 28 (member's, not visitors). Both are reasonable questions, why do we? Turns out there are many reasons beyond spiritual for attending church or even hanging here. Social, economic, companionship, work are some. I just never thought of it beyond a spiritual basis. I didn't go to church for years because I wasn't interested in spiritual things, never dawned on me they were other reasons,,, Why I hang here is because it's an SDA web site and I'm learning a LOT about how the church works and the people, the doctrine. All though, it's certainly a mixed bag of beliefs and I have considered leaving, more than once! I think I'll stick around though, theres good folks here, maybe it's just a "social" thing, maybe it's a spiritual thing. The jury is out on that question.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 2, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted August 2, 2011 Ah, fair enough. FWIW, I'm much more of the 'go out to the highways and byways and compel them to come in' than of the 'entry exam' persuasion, whether it's church or this site. All are welcome in the Kingdom, all should be welcome in its earthly mirrors... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 2, 2011 Administrators Share Posted August 2, 2011 For me it comes down to my concept of what church is ( or should be) all about. It's family. It's community. It's the neighborhood I live and work in. (Think of Jesus' answer to who is our neighbor...). Should I abandon my family because I disagree with them? Should I move away because I disagree with the leaders of the community where I live? Should I move away because of people unlike me in my neighborhood? In your world, how do you raise an honest and sincere question? How do you express a doubt? How do you safely raise a concern? How do you propose making necessary changes in the church for the better? Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Turns out we may not be given an oral test of 28 questions on judgement day as a pass/fail. Thank God for that, tho I'm probably in agreement with all, at least the basic idea. Just not the word used of one. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 2, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 2, 2011 Turns out we may not be given an oral test of 28 questions on judgement day as a pass/fail. By the time judgment day comes it will probably be 31 anyway. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 2, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted August 2, 2011 But it's not a creed. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 actually, the reference to "the 28" is dimenishing. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 3, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 3, 2011 I agree, Shane. :-) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 3, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 3, 2011 It would depend on the extent and focus of the doubts and whether one is honestly and sincerely seeking for truth and coming to conclusions. That would be different from somone who has the same, or even more, doubts about foundational doctrines than he had many years before-- and continually attempts to encourage those same doubts in others instead of finding answers and encouraging people's trust in God's Word. Sincere doubts and questions are beneficial if they lead to finding the truth, but not when the doubts and questions exist for their own sake and when there is an habitual seeking after truth but a rare belief in it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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