Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Which gospel are you referring to? The one Jesus taught or the one Paul taught? Paul...the guy who wrote 53% of the NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 You said Paul? Ok, then what you are writing about makes sense. But I am a follower of Jesus Christ so I therefore have built my foundation of belief upon a rock (His words only) and not upon the sand of Paul's gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 The work is not yet finished .... sky Then God is a liar....I rest on the Sabbath because the cross points to God's finished work of redemption "in Christ". I guess I need to stop keeping the Sabbath? Now if you tell me that you haven't received everything that's true "in Christ" I'll buy that. But that doesn't mean God's work "in Christ" is unfinished. You see right now this moment you have a glorified, sinless humanity "in Christ Jesus" - where? in the heaven places. See both Eph 2:6 and Col 1:13,14 The atonement isn't finished because you haven't received what is already true of you "in Christ". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 ... I therefore have built my foundation of belief upon a rock (His words only) and not upon the sand of Paul's gospel. So you reject Paul then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 The Gospel is simple. Sinners are to come to God, daily, just as they are: sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the merits of the blood shed for them upon Calvary's cross. None will ever perish while they do this. "Though millions who need to be healed will reject His offered mercy, not one who trusts in His merits will be left to perish." Patriarchs and Prophets, 432. This is how faith is accounted righteousness. In other words, the Father receives, forgives, justifies all those who come to Him by appropriating to themselves the merits of the world's Redeemer. Then Christ places them close by His side, encircling them with His human arm while with His divine arm He grasps the throne of the Infinite. Thus these believing souls become one with Him as He one with the Father and God loves them as He loves Jesus and they go on from grace to grace, from righteousness to righteousness, until they reflect Him fully. To them every command has become a promise, a most positive promise of their own fulfillment by the Spirit of the living God. And thus it can be said, "Here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus." Rev.14:12. For those who rest in the merits of Jesus Christ, the law is taken care of. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 15, 2011 The Gospel is simple. Sinners are to come to God, daily, just as they are: sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the merits of the blood shed for them upon Calvary's cross. None will ever perish while they do this. "Though millions who need to be healed will reject His offered mercy, not one who trusts in His merits will be left to perish." Patriarchs and Prophets, 432. But I think it should be added that if we are truly trusting in His merits, we will be honest with God and won't be planning on committing sin. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 The Gospel is simple. Sinners are to come to God, daily, just as they are...sky Again, no...that's not the gospel. This is the gospel received by faith. Stop confusing the two. You guys are really starting to trouble me. The gospel isn't anything we do..... It's what God did in Christ . Stop trying to take the glory of the cross away and place it on us....We have nothing to offer God! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 ...we will be honest with God and won't be planning on committing sin. Again, not the subject nor the gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Didn't Jesus say to take up your OWN cross and follow Him? Sonny, can you tell me what Jesus meant when He said this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 15, 2011 Originally Posted By: John317 ...we will be honest with God and won't be planning on committing sin. Again, not the subject nor the gospel. I agree with you. I didn't mean to imply that our not planning to sin is the Gospel. It is the response to the gospel. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Didn't Jesus say to take up your OWN cross and follow Him? Sonny, can you tell me what Jesus meant when He said this? Not the gospel....That's something to do with accepting the gospel.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 The atonement has been ongoing ever since Christ ascended up on High but on the 22nd of October 1844 He passed to the Most Holy Place to begin the investigative judgement of the dead first, that is, all, since Adam, who have professed His name. When the mission of the Gospel is completed, He will pass to the investigative judgment of the living. This is clearly portrayed in the parable of the Wedding Garment. At the end of the third call of the parable which is the loud cry, the king comes into the room to examine the guests. This is a work of judgment and it can only be of the living. Only those who pass the great final test can successfully pass the investigative judgment of the living and they receive the final seal and they are prepared to go through the time of Jacob's trouble. In the meantime God's people are to rest in the merits of Jesus and grow in grace according to the commandment of the everlasting God and when they reflect Christ's character fully, at the end of the loud cry, probation will close and they are strenghtened to go through the time of Jacob's trouble and they will be translated without seeing death. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 The atonement .... Not the gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich ... I therefore have built my foundation of belief upon a rock (His words only) and not upon the sand of Paul's gospel. So you reject Paul then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Well duh? Yes? No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 John317, you should know by now what I have been teaching in regard to the merits of Christ, that is, what I have been quoting, all those statements that clearly teach that while resting in the merits of Christ the sinner is clothed with the robe of Christ's righteousness and His righteousness accomplishes everything for it is made manifest in obedience to the commandments of God. For these the law of ten commandments is the Voice of God speaking to the soul in promise. In my last posts on this thread I made this very clear. So I don't understand your caution as though I had given you the impression that while resting in the merits of Christ the sinner could keep on sinning with impunity. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 15, 2011 In my last posts on this thread I made this very clear. So I don't understand your caution as though I had given you the impression that while resting in the merits of Christ the sinner could keep on sinning with impunity. sky, I write mainly for other readers, not just for the original poster. So please don't take my reponses as if they are for you personally. These threads get thousands of readers who never post. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 As we read the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, we discover three very important facts. All in One. God created all men — the whole human race — in one man. In Acts 17:26 we read, “From one man [one person] he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth.” In Genesis 2:7 the creation of Adam is recorded for us. The word “Adam” in Hebrew means “mankind.” We read that God breathed into Adam the breath of life. While the English Bible uses the word “life” in the singular, the original Hebrew text from which the English was translated actually has the word life in the plural form — “lives.” God was not creating one man when he created Adam, he was creating the whole human race in that one man. A Ruined Race. Through man, sin entered the world. In the New Testament, especially in Romans 5:12 and 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, we discover that Satan ruined the whole human race in one man — Adam. When Adam and Eve were created, God told them to multiply the corporate life that he had created in them [Genesis 1:28]. But before Adam and Eve began the multiplication process (had any children) they sinned. Therefore, the life that Adam passed on to his children, his posterity, was a life that had already sinned. Since the life that you and I were born with is an extension of Adam’s life, it is a life that stands condemned, a life that must die. According to Romans 5:12, “Sin entered the world through one man.” In verse 18 Paul concludes his statement by saying that, “Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.” God doesn’t blame us for the sin predicament that we are in because of the condemnation we inherited at birth. We read in 1 Corinthians 15:21, “For since death came through a man [singular], the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man [singular].” In verse 22, the apostle points out who these two men are, “For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.” This brings us to the third fact. Incredible Good News. The incredible good news of salvation is that God redeemed all men in one man, Jesus Christ, just as Satan ruined the whole human race in one man, Adam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 There are those here who would have us believe that they are more inspired than inspiration. Well, if their teaching does not harmonize with what has already been revealed, we are to receive them not. "The sinner must ever look toward Calvary and with the simple faith of a little child he must rest in the merits of Christ, accepting His righteousness, and believing in His mercy." Evangelism, p.185. As one rests in the merits of Christ, he receives the gift of His righteousness which accomplishes everything. Should it be difficult then for him to believe in God's mercy? "The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Originally Posted By: skyblue888 In my last posts on this thread I made this very clear. So I don't understand your caution as though I had given you the impression that while resting in the merits of Christ the sinner could keep on sinning with impunity. sky, I write mainly for other readers, not just for the original poster. So please don't take my reponses as if they are for you personally. These threads get thousands of readers who never post. Okay thanks but I would appreciate it if you would make sure no wrong impressions are left regarding the original poster. sky :) Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 "The sinner must ever look toward Calvary and with the simple faith of a little child he must rest in the merits of Christ, accepting His righteousness, and believing in His mercy." Evangelism, p.185. Good quote, but this is speaking of righteousness by faith - i.e., the gospel received by faith. The subject is the gospel. How can the SDA church take the gospel to the world if not one knows what the gospel is? Come on people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 More on the gospel: Read me Here's part of the above link: Will the true Seventh-day Adventist please stand up? Within Adventism today some five different kinds of gospels can be heard: The conservatives in our midst are preaching the Armenian gospel, which is anything but good news: that I must first meet God’s requirements of faith, repentance, and confession before He will put me into Christ and save me. Thus, instead of being good news, the gospel has become good advice. Unfortunately, the great majority of our people have failed to meet all of God’s requirements and, therefore, have been robbed of the joy and assurance of salvation. As a result, many are leaving the church in discouragement. Then you have the traditionalists who claim to be upholding Historist Adventism. They are preaching a Galatian type of Gospel: salvation is not by faith alone or grace alone but by faith plus works or grace plus keeping the law. This is a subtle form of legalism that has produced a Pharisaical people who are always criticizing those who do not see as they do or whose behavior is not conforming to the do’s and don’ts of the church. At the other extreme we have the liberals who are preaching the social gospel. That is: the gospel is practicing the life of Christ, going about doing good. This is a sophisticated form of legalism. Yes, the true gospel will produce a people who will go about doing good, but that is the fruits of the gospel and not the gospel itself. Any form of works that we do that is equated with the gospel is legalism. The gospel is the birth, life, death, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, period. Nothing must be added to that or we are perverting the gospel. Since the sixties another gospel has been introduced into Adventism: the evangelical gospel. While there is much truth in this gospel, it is an incomplete gospel. Its emphasis is on salvation from the guilt and punishment of sin only, our ego-centric concerns. But the gospel did not only save us from the guilt and punishment of sin but also from sin itself and our slavery to it. This brings us to the fifth gospel, which I believe is the true and full gospel God raised the Advent Movement to restore and proclaim: Read me also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 15, 2011 Your version of the Good News is too narrow. What is the plan of salvation? Isn't that the Good News? The Plan of Salvation is a package, not made up of parts that are independent of each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Your version of the Good News is too narrow. What is the plan of salvation? Isn't that the Good News? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Read me also Here's a portion from the above website: "On the cross, our corporate condemned life died eternally in Christ [the wages of sin, see 2 Corinthians 5:14]. In the resurrection, God gave the human race the eternal life of His Son [1 John 5:11]. All that we are, as a result of the Fall, Christ was made at the incarnation; that through His life, death, and resurrection all that He is we were made in Him [2 Corinthians 5:17]. This constitutes the good news of the gospel." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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