"In Christ" - the gospel explained

[Sonny]

The sacrifice of Christ as an atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster. In order to be rightly understood and appreciated, every truth in the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, must be studied in the light that streams from the cross of Calvary. I present before you the great, grand monument of mercy and regeneration, salvation and redemption--the Son of God uplifted on the cross" (Gospel Workers, p. 315.)

[Gerr]

The conservatives in our midst are preaching the Armenian gospel, which is anything but good news: that I must first meet God’s requirements of faith, repentance, and confession before He will put me into Christ and save me. Thus, instead of being good news, the gospel has become good advice. Unfortunately, the great majority of our people have failed to meet all of God’s requirements and, therefore, have been robbed of the joy and assurance of salvation. As a result, many are leaving the church in discouragement.

Unconditional/no-requirement salvation?

"Without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him."

"And Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

"What must I do to be saved?" "Repent...."

"If we confess our sinss,...."

"If you confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart..."

Quote:

Then you have the traditionalists who claim to be upholding Historist Adventism. They are preaching a Galatian type of Gospel: salvation is not by faith alone or grace alone but by faith plus works or grace plus keeping the law. This is a subtle form of legalism that has produced a Pharisaical people who are always criticizing those who do not see as they do or whose behavior is not conforming to the do’s and don’ts of the church.

"Faith without works is DEAD!" So salvation is NEVER by faith without works. The faith that saves is the faith that works! I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp.

[Sonny]

Unconditional/no-requirement salvation?

[Gerr]

The sacrifice of Christ as an atonement for sin is the great truth around which all other truths cluster. In order to be rightly understood and appreciated, every truth in the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, must be studied in the light that streams from the cross of Calvary. I present before you the great, grand monument of mercy and regeneration, salvation and redemption--the Son of God uplifted on the cross" (Gospel Workers, p. 315.)

Mercy - plural mercies [Middle English, from Anglo-French merci, from Medieval Latin merced-, merces, from Latin, price paid, wages, from merc-, merx merchandise] 13th century

1 a : compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one’s power also : lenient or compassionate treatment 〈begged for mercy〉

b : imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder

2 a : a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion

b : a fortunate circumstance 〈it was a mercy they found her before she froze〉

3 : compassionate treatment of those in distress 〈works of mercy among the poor〉 — mercy adjective —at the mercy of: wholly in the power of : with no way to protect oneself against

synonym MERCY, CHARITY, CLEMENCY, GRACE, LENIENCY mean a disposition to show kindness or compassion. MERCY implies compassion that forbears punishing even when justice demands it 〈threw himself on the mercy of the court〉. CHARITY stresses benevolence and goodwill shown in broad understanding and tolerance of others 〈show a little charity for the less fortunate〉. CLEMENCY implies a mild or merciful disposition in one having the power or duty of punishing 〈the judge refused to show clemency〉. GRACE implies a benign attitude and a willingness to grant favors or make concessions 〈by the grace of God〉. LENIENCY implies lack of severity in punishing 〈criticized the courts for excessive leniency〉.

Regeneration - 1 : an act or the process of regenerating : the state of being regenerated

2 : spiritual renewal or revival

3 : renewal or restoration of a body, bodily part, or biological system (as a forest) after injury or as a normal process

Salvation - 1 a : deliverance from the power and effects of sin

b : the agent or means that effects salvation

c Christian Science : the realization of the supremacy of infinite Mind over all bringing with it the destruction of the illusion of sin, sickness, and death

2 : liberation from ignorance or illusion

3 a : preservation from destruction or failure

b : deliverance from danger or difficulty — sal•va•tion•al \-shnəl, -shə-nəl\ adjective

Redemption - or to redeem - a : to buy back : REPURCHASE

b : to get or win back

2 : to free from what distresses or harms: as

a : to free from captivity by payment of ransom

b : to extricate from or help to overcome something detrimental

c : to release from blame or debt : CLEAR

d : to free from the consequences of sin

3 : to change for the better : REFORM

4 : REPAIR, RESTORE

5 a : to free from a lien by payment of an amount secured thereby

b (1) : to remove the obligation of by payment 〈the U.S. Treasury redeems savings bonds on demand〉

(2) : to exchange for something of value 〈redeem trading stamps〉

c : to make good : FULFILL

6 a : to atone for : EXPIATE 〈redeem an error〉

b (1) : to offset the bad effect of

(2) : to make worthwhile : RETRIEVE synonym see RESCUE — re•deem•able \-ˈdē-mə-bəl\ adjective

Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster's collegiate dictionary. (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, Mass.: Merriam-Webster, Inc.

Does that sound like justification ALONE? The EGW passage that you have just quoted about the Cross and the atonement ENCOMPASSES the the WHOLE Plan of Salvation.

[Sonny]

Merriam-Webster

Merriam-Webster? What book of the Bible is that? Let's talk about the gospel, Gerry! Do you know it? After all it's why we accepted Christ.

[Gerr]

Self-righteous acts camouflaged or disguised in the name of Christ are exposed in the judgment and clearly identified as works of iniquity (i.e., works in addition to Christ's perfect work - works that bring glory to the so called believer - works of the flesh)/ Hence these works deny that "in Christ" the believer is complete.

Being complete "in Christ" is a fantasy unless Christ is also completely in the believer. There are a lot of people who believe and accept Christ as their Savior, but do not take the other part of the transaction, i.e. accept Him as LORD as well.

Again, you've sidetracked me, we need to understand the gospel. How did Christ save us when His own law condemns us?

Indeed, we need to understand the Gospel!!! And IMHO, what you are presenting is NOT the Gospel!

[Sonny]

Being complete "in Christ" is a fantasy unless Christ is also completely in the believer.

[cheddar]

Man, this thread has 50 posts in one day!

If we believe that our salvation is a ‘work in progress’ then it will always be that way till we die.

Jesus wants to give us a brand new life that ‘commits no sin’.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved – Acts 16

I like the example of Adam and Eve before the fall – They both kept the law perfectly and they probably didn’t even know there was a law. They just naturally lived in harmony with the law without even trying!

Jesus wants to recreate this same life in each and every one of us. We need to believe it.

[Sonny]

Jesus wants to recreate this same life in each and every one of us. We need to believe it.

Again, not the gospel....

[Gerr]

I believe you don't even know what the gospel is, Gerry. You spent hours talking about works, but not about how God saved you in Christ. What's up?

Show me where I have spent hours talking about works.

I believe that Christ ALONE saves me. And what is salvation?

I think it was Pink who said that salvation means deliverance from the penalty, power, presence, & pleasure of sin. If Jesus does all these for me, tell me how I missed the gospel.

[cheddar]

Originally Posted By: cheddar

Jesus wants to recreate this same life in each and every one of us. We need to believe it.

Again, not the gospel....

Sonny every single post is not always going to be absolutely on topic.

You should know that better than anyone because you always go off topic.

[Sonny]

I believe that Christ ALONE saves me.

And I believe Christ saved you in Himself 2000 years ago. You accepted this by faith. What did you accept, Gerry? Can't you explain the gospel?

[Sonny]

Sonny every single post is not always going to be absolutely on topic.

I don't believe even one post (besides mine) is on topic. Something is weird about this....

[phkrause]

Man, this thread has 50 posts in one day!

If we believe that our salvation is a ‘work in progress’ then it will always be that way till we die.

Jesus wants to give us a brand new life that ‘commits no sin’.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved – Acts 16

I like the example of Adam and Eve before the fall – They both kept the law perfectly and they probably didn’t even know there was a law. They just naturally lived in harmony with the law without even trying!

Jesus wants to recreate this same life in each and every one of us. We need to believe it.

Exactly cheddar, excellent post.

[phkrause]

Sonny every single post is not always going to be absolutely on topic.

You should know that better than anyone because you always go off topic.

In the words of Sonny himself. BINGO!!!! Right on Cheddar.

[Dr. Rich]

John317, you should know by now what I have been teaching in regard to the merits of Christ, that is, what I have been quoting, all those statements that clearly teach that while resting in the merits of Christ the sinner is clothed with the robe of Christ's righteousness and His righteousness accomplishes everything for it is made manifest in obedience to the commandments of God. For these the law of ten commandments is the Voice of God speaking to the soul in promise.

In my last posts on this thread I made this very clear. So I don't understand your caution as though I had given you the impression that while resting in the merits of Christ the sinner could keep on sinning with impunity.

sky

Huh? Where do you find that "the sinner is clothed with the robe of Christ's righteousness'? If you believe this, then what do you do with Rev. 19:7-8?

[Sonny]

In the words of Sonny himself. BINGO!!!! Right on Cheddar.

yes, I get off topic...but not one post is on topic since post 1. That's ridiculous.

[Sonny]

John, you are quiet. I guess that's good because if we get ugly we'll be hearing from you.

We don't always agree, but one thing I've learned about you is when your quiet you're thinking. I hope you are considering the "in Christ" truth - not that you are not already saved....

[John317]

.... I am a follower of Jesus Christ so I therefore have built my foundation of belief upon a rock (His words only) and not upon the sand of Paul's gospel.

There is no actual contradiction between Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul or the rest of the Bible in terms of how people are saved. Everyone is saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. One of the main problems that you struggle with is understanding the significance of faith. Faith is the same as firm trust and belief/reliance. Faith itself does not save us; faith, rather, is the empty hand through which we receive the gifts of God. If you examine closely what Jesus said about faith, you will see that people never earned healing/salvation. Jesus said, "As you have believed, so let it be done for you,(Matt. 8:13)," "Your faith has made you well" (Matt. 9: 22), "According to your faith let it be to you" (Matt. 9: 29), and " O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire" (Matt. 15: 28).

John 1: 17 says, "The law was given through Moses, but grace [unmerited favor] and truth came through Jesus Christ."

If I got what I deserve-- and what I ever could deserve-- I would be dead. But instead God gives me His grace, which I can never merit. Does that mean I go on sinning because I am under God's grace and cannot earn salvation? Of course not. See Romans 6, 7 and 8. Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery, but then He commanded her, "Go and do not go on living in sin." That is exactly Paul's message in Romans 6: 1,2, 15.

Obedience to God is really the response of love to God for His grace. It is the only response possible when we know by experience God's forgiveness and unmerited favor.

[phkrause]

John, you are quiet. I guess that's good because if we get ugly will be hearing from you.

Good one Sonny, but I believe he's trying to catch up on all the threads that he usually posts in. I know when I get behind its hard to catch up, especially when you want to post and not just read. He'll get to this.

[John317]

Thank you, Sonny. I have a lot of reading to do to catch up with all those posts that were written while I was away.

[Sonny]

He'll get to this.

He's already been here, I was hoping he would at least look into just the gospel. You other guys haven't....

[John317]

... Where do you find that "the sinner is clothed with the robe of Christ's righteousness'? If you believe this, then what do you do with Rev. 19:7-8?

I don't think anyone here is talking about practicing sinners. The robe of Christ's righteousness does not cover sins that are being practiced and are unrepented of and unconfessed. But I think you'll agree that everyone who is saved is a forgiven sinner who has been saved from his sins and has become a slave of righteousness-- just as Paul says in Romans 6. So everyone who is finally "arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright" was once a practicing sinner. Until Christ returns, we will be sinners in the sense that we will have a sinful nature and the need to struggle against our "old man."

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

.... I am a follower of Jesus Christ so I therefore have built my foundation of belief upon a rock (His words only) and not upon the sand of Paul's gospel.

There is no actual contradiction between Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul or the rest of the Bible in terms of how people are saved. Everyone is saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. One of the main problems that you struggle with is understanding the significance of faith. Faith is the same as firm trust and belief/reliance. Faith itself does not save us; faith, rather, is the empty hand through which we receive the gifts of God. If you examine closely what Jesus said about faith, you will see that people never earned healing/salvation. Jesus said, "As you have believed, so let it be done for you,(Matt. 8:13)," "Your faith has made you well" (Matt. 9: 22), "According to your faith let it be to you" (Matt. 9: 29), and " O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire" (Matt. 15: 28).

John 1: 17 says, "The law was given through Moses, but grace [unmerited favor] and truth came through Jesus Christ."

If I got what I deserve-- and what I ever could deserve-- I would be dead. But instead God gives me His grace, which I can never merit. Does that mean I go on sinning because I am under God's grace and cannot earn salvation? Of course not. See Romans 6, 7 and 8. Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery, but then He commanded her, "Go and do not go on living in sin." That is exactly Paul's message in Romans 6: 1,2, 15.

Obedience to God is really the response of love to God for His grace. It is the only response possible when we know by experience God's forgiveness and unmerited favor.

I do not agree with your understanding on this because grace itself did not originate with Jesus Christ. After all, God found grace in Noah way before Jesus was here on this earth. The author of the book of John surely meant that the "Law" was the ten commandments, as God's real law was known from the beginnning or else one would not have known the difference between good and evil.

It was because of Jesus Christ's willingness to pay the penalty for Adam's sin, that you and I are here right now. Yes, this is called grace, but it is NOT without conditions as I am sure you would agree with me.

And I am sure you would agree with me that MOST Christian organizations preach that Grace is without any conditions--as it is a free gift of God and all one has to do is believe that Jesus was the Christ and they then would receive this free gift. Well, the early Adventists did NOT believe this at all. It is and was well known that the change came around 1888 when A. T. Jones and company preached the message of Paul instead of what Jesus taught. It is my opinion this is why Jesus prophesied about this in Revelation 2:5.

Jack Sequiera writing proves my point that the gospel of Paul was totally different than Jesus' gospel about the Kingdom of Heaven.

[skyblue888]

"Every truly converted soul will carry the unmistakable marks that the carnal mind is subdued." 1 T 63.

"Constant war against the carnal mind must be maintained." 2 T 479.

Of course no man can maintain this war for "No man can empty himself of self. We can only consent for Christ to accomplish the work" as we rest in the merits of His infinite sacrifice.

sky