"In Christ" - the gospel explained

[Sonny]

Again, not the gospel

[Guest]

Any gospel that doesn't change a person, is not from God.

[Sonny]

Any gospel that doesn't change a person, is not from God.

The gospel is what God did in Christ. What part of this don't you understand?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

I believe that Christ ALONE saves me.

And I believe Christ saved you in Himself 2000 years ago. You accepted this by faith. What did you accept, Gerry? Can't you explain the gospel?

What is the Good News? The Good News is that Jesus saves me from the penalty of sin, from the power of sin, from the presence of sin, and the pleasure of sin. Did I miss anything?

[Musicman1228]

John316 said, "There is no actual contradiction between Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul or the rest of the Bible in terms of how people are saved. Everyone is saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ."

Not according to John Sequiera.

“When one carefully reads the epistles of Paul, with an open mind, one begins to realize that this great apostle, whom God especially set aside to expound the gospel of Jesus Christ, presents the very opposite view that God has already redeemed, saved, or reconciled to Himself, the entire human race in Christ and only those who deliberately, persistently, and ultimately resist the convictions of the Holy Spirit will be lost.”

~Jack Sequiera

The quote from Jack Sequiera above defines the underlying issue, that is, that the gospel of Jesus IS NOT same gospel that Paul teaches. You can't say it any clearer than he did.

Paul states that the OFFER of the righteousness of Christ is IMPARTED to the believer through BELIEF in the GRACE of God by FAITH, and that the only way to stop this from happening is to consciously reject the offer. When given a choice between eternal death (burning in the firey pits of hell forever)* or eternal life (which begins the moment you die here on earth)* no one in their right mind would choose the former over the latter. Then top that off with the idea that no matter what you do from then on you CANNOT ever remove yourself from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus and you have a big winner (especially when compared to the gospel of the Kingdom which Jesus taught).

In Paul's version of the gospel (again, which was not the same as Jesus taught) righteousness that is IMPARTED to the believer takes the place of the entire process of sanctification (as described below), and makes the idea of 'being saved' as easy as 'claiming' to love Jesus (no proof necessary) and saying the sinner's prayer.

*[Not my personal beliefs, but the beliefs of general Christianity based on Paul's writings.]

Here is a brief description of developing righteousness through the process of sanctification that Jesus taught to His own disciples; that is, by abiding in the words of God and Jesus Christ, by becoming sanctified in the truth because of those words such that the believer learns how (over time, and by the power of the Holy Spirit) to obey the standard of the Kingdom (the 10 Commandments) to which he must become a member through being born of the Holy Spirit, whereby the payment of the penalty of death which Jesus paid for the Kingdom of Heaven can now apply to that person that has been made righteous through this process and who has entered the Kingdom of Heaven.

I call your attention to the words of Jesus in the following quote as a guide to figuring out which of these methods would be what Jesus Christ would have really taught. One is easy, and one is hard. Only one is correct. Choose wisely, choose well.

(13) “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. (14) For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Matt. 7:13-14.

[Sonny]

What is the Good News?

[Sonny]

“When one carefully reads the epistles of Paul, with an open mind, one begins to realize that this great apostle, whom God especially set aside to expound the gospel of Jesus Christ, presents the very opposite view that God has already redeemed, saved, or reconciled to Himself, the entire human race in Christ and only those who deliberately, persistently, and ultimately resist the convictions of the Holy Spirit will be lost.”

Jack's right on the money. I've given these texts as proof, but you ignore them. You see we humans covet credit. We want to glory in something. We want that white, hot spot light shining on us. No, the gospel takes that glory and slams it into the dust of the ground. Ellen White states this.

[Sonny]

Here's something I bumped into:

Read me

[Sonny]

Here's EGW:

“What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ. When they begin to praise and exalt God all the day long, then by beholding they are becoming changed into the same image. What is regeneration? It is revealing to man what is his own real nature, that in himself he is worthless”. {20MR 117.3}

What is the last message given to the human race?

Rev 14:7 In a loud voice he said, "Have respect for God. Give him glory. The hour has come for God to judge. Worship him who made the heavens and the earth. Worship (adore) him who made the sea and the springs of water." 8 A second angel followed him. He said, "Fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen! The city of Babylon made all the nations drink the strong wine of her terrible sins (self-glory)."

Keep in mind the issue behind the literal fall of Babylon:

Dan 4:28 "All this happened to Nebuchadnezzar the king. 29 "Twelve months later he was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon. 30 "The king reflected and said, 'Is this not Babylon the great, which I myself have built as a royal residence by the might of my power and for the glory of my majesty ?' 31 "While the word was in the king's mouth, a voice came from heaven, saying, 'King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is declared : sovereignty has been removed from you, 32 and you will be driven away from mankind, and your dwelling place will be with the beasts of the field. You will be given grass to eat like cattle, and seven periods of time will pass over you until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it on whomever He wishes.'

What did God do? He removed Himself from Nebuchadnezzar's life. Why? He gloried in his achievements. He was giving glory to himself.

Now when you look at this in spiritual terms Babylon is all institutions who teach man to glory in themselves. When you look at this from religion it's all denominations who glory in man's goodness.

This is why Babylon falls. She has renounced the truth as it is "in Christ" - that God has saved the human race in His Son. That's what this truth does - it takes the glory of man and puts it in the dust!

Gal 6:14 But far be it from me to have glory in anything, but only in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which this world has come to an end on the cross for me, and I for it.

So you see that the gospel, received through faith, actually changes the believer's heart. When less self-glory is seen in our lives it's proof that we have accepted the truth as it is in Christ Jesus.

"There was not one trace of selfishness in the life of Christ. All who are laborers together with God will have the same spirit as their Master had. They will be continually growing away from selfishness (self-glory), and renouncing self-indulgence, even in things that had once appeared innocent to them. . . "[LHU 325]

[Sonny]

Now when you look at this in spiritual terms Babylon is all institutions who teach man to glory in themselves.

Babylon is based on self-glory - the love of self. This can be seen in all aspects of our world systems, be it politics, education, sports, social clubs, technology, etc.

[skyblue888]

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.5, p.744.

Is not the Gospel simple enough?

This statement is not the opinion of a human being but the oracle of the living God through His humble servant.

sky

[Dr. Rich]

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.5, p.744.

Is not the Gospel simple enough?

This statement is not the opinion of a human being but the oracle of the living God through His humble servant.

sky

Correction: While this sounds 'nice', it is the same thing 'New Agers' would tell you. What it does is leave out the simple truth that Jesus taught which was to "Trust AND OBEY, for there is NO other way...."

It is MY opinion that this statment could only come from someone who was seeking their truth from Satan. Jesus came to this earth to testify about the FATHER and the Kingdom of Heaven, NOT HIMSELF!

[Sonny]

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.5, p.744.

Is not the Gospel simple enough?

Dude Sky. What's wrong? It's like you are in a loop. How many times do I have to repeat myself? Are you reading, or do you just paste Ellen White quotes & call that the gospel?

Again, the gospel has not one ounce of human devising in it. It's what God did "in Christ Jesus" - period. Not what we experience or any of that. Get it?

[Sonny]

Jesus taught which was to "Trust AND OBEY, for there is NO other way...."

Sorry, that's a song. And BTW, you aren't obeying as Christ obeyed. Don't deceive yourself.

[Dr. Rich]

In regards to Jesus' robe covering up a sinner...nice 'twist and spin dancing around it' John317. Fact is, a sinner is a sinner--period! One who has repented and is now practicing the truth by obeying God is NOT called a 'sinner'! (no matter how you slice and dice it)

But that really was not my point. My point was that the robe of Jesus will NEVER cover up anyone's sin so that the Father can't see it. To even think this is what happens is totally nonsense. God is NOT blind.

[Sonny]

One who has repented and is now practicing the truth by obeying God is NOT called a 'sinner'!

So you are holy?

[Dr. Rich]

Hey Sonny, William Diehl is just another spouter of lies as was EGW and Paul! Did you see how he messed up what Jesus said to the Rich Young Ruller? Jesus NEVER said or even hinted that he could NEVER keep all of the commandments! Read the real thing at Matthew 19:16:26. Now read what Jesus told Nicadimas in John 3 to find out what one must really do to be saved. And then read John 17's prayer to find out the truth regarding how Christ and the Father were 'one' and how we too can become 'one' with the Father and Christ. Every person has a choice to make, follow after lies being told by others or follow the truth from the words of Jesus Christ.

[Dr. Rich]

Here is how Jesus has responded to people like me: "I know your deeds and your toil and perserverance, and that you cannot endure evil men, and you put to test those who call[ed] themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false; and you have perserverance and have endured for My Name's sake, and have not grown weary." (See Rev. 2)

And this is what I have done: "Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand out of its place--unless you repent, yes this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He who has an ear, let hiim hear what the Spirit says to my people, to him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God."

So Sonny, you too can do the same thing. Just repent and get back to what Jesus said and taught. It is really that simple!

[Sonny]

Hey Sonny, William Diehl is just another spouter of lies as was EGW and Paul!

I don't even know the guy....I bumped into his website. He had good things to say.

I'm going to give you a free assessment. No charge at all. Here goes:

You're a very proud person. You are proud of your righteousness. You reject Paul, which is most likely why you believe the way you do.

You need to realize that you aren't living Christ's life, which answers the law. Who are you kidding? Not me, and certainly not God.

As to the Rich Young ruler, you don't even begin to understand it. You need to open your eyes, Rich. Been there, done that and it's hard to give up one's self-righteousness for the righteousness of God. It's like pulling teeth. But unless you do you'll bring on trouble. Then maybe God will open your eyes.

[Dr. Rich]

Sonny, you have no clue and don't know me at all!

What was IT that Jesus came to this earth for? Huh? When you get that figured out (hint, He told us at His trial) then you might have a clue as why there is NO need for any more apostles like Paul and Luke and anymore prophets like EGW. He said IT (what He came here to do) was finished BEFORE He died.

If there was any other gospel that could have been given by a revelation or vision, then there would have been NO need for Jesus to come to this earth to do what He said He was sent to do. Clearly, Saul was evil and was used by Satan to sow the seed of weeds (tares) in the same NT as what Jesus sowed earlier. Once you understand the seriousness of all of this you will understand why I HATE EVIL especially when packaged with 'love, grace, faith and mercy'.

You sound like a nice person. Being nice but still believing and practicing a lie is not going to save anyone. (See Rev. 21:8 and 22:15)

Read the book called "The Beautiful Side of Evil" with an open mind and you will find that Satan is not called the "Great Deceiver" because he is not good at it.

Believe it or not, keeping ALL of the commandments AND holding to the words of Jesus Christ ALONE is a very easy thing to do. Try it sometime. Oh, by doing this one MUST love (and show it) God with ALL your might first, because God can NOT be your God until you do this.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

What is the Good News?

Okay, so you are ungrateful for what God did in Christ. Okay, work your way in....

Now, now, if Jesus does the saving, how can I be ungrateful? Where have I shown ingratitude for such a salvation? And how can you say, "work your way in?"

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The Good News is that Jesus saves me from the penalty of sin, from the power of sin, from the presence of sin, and the pleasure of sin. Did I miss anything?

No, in Christ you have justification, sanctification and glorification. See 1 Cor 1:30

You are just showing your tunnel vision. What does it mean to be delivered from the penalty of sin? For the penalty of sin to be cancelled, is it not because one's sins have been forgiven and the sinner justified? And for one to be delivered from the power, presence, & pleasure of sin, is that not the very essence of sanctification?

Here is what ESV | 1 Co 1:30 says: "And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,...."

When do we receive a glorified body? At the second coming. Read 1 Cor `15.

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That's a finished work.

What is a finished work? If the Plan of Salvation was finished at the Cross, what is Jesus doing in the heavenly sanctuary now? Why are we still here? Why is sin & Satan still very much present?

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As to the power of sin - you aren't living Christ's life. So sin (iniquity) is still in your life. That work is unfinished.[

Sanctification goes on until the last breath, so what's your point?

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As to the presence of sin - you need a glorified life, which is in Christ. You need to obtain the reality of what is already true in Christ.

The REALITY of one's relationship with Christ is seen in one's life. One can claim all he wants about being justified, sanctified, & glorified "in Christ", but unless Christ is sanctified & glorified in one's life, that is just an empty profession.

[Gerr]

Again, not the gospel

Sonny, when someone claims or thinks has an exclusive knowledge to something as fundamental as the gospel, that person has to be suspect. You are making the gospel so esoteric that nobody else but you and JS understand it! If the gospel is as esoteric as you seem to imply, then very few will be saved. The fact is, many children will/can tell you how a person is saved.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.5, p.744.

Is not the Gospel simple enough?

Dude Sky. What's wrong? It's like you are in a loop. How many times do I have to repeat myself? Are you reading, or do you just paste Ellen White quotes & call that the gospel?

Again, the gospel has not one ounce of human devising in it. It's what God did "in Christ Jesus" - period. Not what we experience or any of that. Get it?

Is there an ounce of human devising in what God is doing in the believer?

ESV | Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Of what use is what God has done "in Christ" detached from the sinner?

[Sonny]

Sonny, you have no clue and don't know me at all!

No, I don't know you, but I know what the Bible states: "There is none righteous, no, not one." And Jesus: "There is only One who is good (righteous) - that is, God"

An EGW:

We [i.e., we believers] may have flattered ourselves, as did Nicodemus, that our life has been upright, that our moral character is correct, and think that we need not humble the heart before God, like the common sinner: but when the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life. [sC 28]

You see the law also looks at your motives, not just your outward actions.

1 Cor 13:3 "If I give away all I have...but have not [agape], nothing is gained."

Without agape, something we do not have by birth, everything we do (even giving up all our possessions) will be done for self-centered interests. Maybe so people will think highly of me? or I'll get my name in the paper? The point is if agape is not controlling the life all I do is defiled or polluted with self-interest & self-love.

So there, I don't have no know you. The Bible clearly states there's none living Christ's life. "All have sinned AND fall short of the glory of God (His agape filled life)"

[Sonny]

Believe it or not, keeping ALL of the commandments AND holding to the words of Jesus Christ ALONE is a very easy thing to do.

Really, so you love your neighbor as you love yourself?