Sonny Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Sanctification goes on until the last breath, so what's your point? It's always unfinished. What Christ did 2000 years ago is finished, you just haven't received all the benefits from His work yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Is there an ounce of human devising in what God is doing in the believer? There's cooperation...you must allow God...it's called surrender. That's human intervention. What God did in Christ didn't involve your cooperation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Sanctification goes on until the last breath, so what's your point? It's always unfinished. What Christ did 2000 years ago is finished, you just haven't received all the benefits from His work yet. Of course! That part of the Plan of Salvation that was done at the Cross was finished. It doesn't need to be repeated. But was the Plan to save sinful man finished at the Cross? If so, then I think you need to read further. And if all the benefits of what He did at the Cross has not been realized yet, then the work of salvation is NOT finished. Period!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Is there an ounce of human devising in what God is doing in the believer? There's cooperation...you must allow God...it's called surrender. That's human intervention. What God did in Christ didn't involve your cooperation. And my cooperation is human devising? Is anyone saved without their cooperation? Just as all the works of God did not benefit the first generation Israelites that came out of Egypt because of unbelief, neither can the works of God in Christ at the Cross benefit anyone in entering the heavenly Canaan unless the sinner believes and accepts. You can throw all the life preservers to a drowning man that you want, but unless he grabs one, all your efforts would be to no avail. See Heb 3:19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 That is a good way of talking about the balance in righteouness by faith Gerry. Some say there is no balance, we only need to accept it. OK,,, the Lord in His mercy has given me the strength and the faith to reach out and hold onto to the life preserver! I accept it, being grateful and experiencing His love, I now want to go a step farther, I want to get in the boat with Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Of course! That part of the Plan of Salvation that was done at the Cross was finished. It doesn't need to be repeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 And my cooperation is human devising? Is anyone saved without their cooperation? Bubba Gerry...You don't get it! But you are not the only one. Your cooperation had nothing to do with what God did in Christ. Christ did it all. That's the gospel. The moment you add anything to Christ's finished work that moment you might as well join the RCC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Sonny, your putting such a fine point on this issue it's razor sharp and drawing blood! Just reach out and grab that life preserver, God has given you the power, I recognize I cannot even do that without His help. But I do have a part to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Of course! That part of the Plan of Salvation that was done at the Cross was finished. It doesn't need to be repeated. But we have everything we need in Christ. All we can do is experience what's already true in Him. We cannot experience what we have not seen and believed. :-) That is sanctification. There is a simple process that goes like this: 1. The Holy Spirit is received. 2. The Holy Spirit writes Gods Law on our hearts as we co-operate with that (through confession and repentance). 3. That Law produces character. 4. Character is revealed by our words. God then judges us on our "words" because that is in indication of the character we have accepted through the working of the Holy Spirit. We are judged as to whether we have accepted two things: 1. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit. 2. The character of Christ, wrought out through the agency of the Holy Spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Sonny, I would agree with none righteous right now, but that will change when the 144k become righteous. Read Rev. 14:5 and you will see that they have no lie in them and they are blameless. That is called righteousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 I do have a part to play. Club, you don't have a part to play in what God did in Christ Jesus. That's the gospel. If you can add to his perfect work then the gospel is "I plus Christ" instead of "Not I, but Christ". Sure, once you hear the gospel you have a job to do. It's called accept that truth by faith. When you do then God begins to turn your mind around so it no longer agrees with your nature. And hence starts the struggle with sin....But that's sanctification or experiencing what we already have in Christ. So the gospel is the basis of your salvation. If you believe that then God will work in you, not to save you, but so you can experience growth and become more like Him. Why? For a witness to bring others to Christ. But that's not the subject here. What I'm trying to discuss is the basis of our salvation so as Christians we can have the assurance of salvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Originally Posted By: ClubV12 I do have a part to play. Club, you don't have a part to play in what God did in Christ Jesus. That's the gospel. If you can add to his perfect work then the gospel is "I plus Christ" instead of "Not I, but Christ". Sure, once you hear the gospel you have a job to do. It's called accept that truth by faith. When you do then God begins to turn your mind around so it no longer agrees with your nature. And hence starts the struggle with sin....But that's sanctification or experiencing what we already have in Christ. So the gospel is the basis of your salvation. If you believe that then God will work in you, not to save you, but so you can experience growth and become more like Him. Why? For a witness to bring others to Christ. But that's not the subject here. What I'm trying to discuss is the basis of our salvation so as Christians we can have the assurance of salvation. Do you believe we can lose our salvaton Sonny? Eze 18:26 When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. If we can lose it based on our decision, then we have a part to play. In Zechariah, Joshua (representing us), is given a new robe. But there are conditions after that reciept of the new robe. Those conditions are that Joshua must continue in Gods statutes and laws. With that in mind, as long as we through the Grace of God, agree to allow the Holy Spirit to work out obedience in us, we will be saved. We are not saved "just" because we accept the robe one time... So assurance only comes through co-operation, therefore we have a part to play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 So assurance only comes through co-operation, therefore we have a part to play... . Would you like a trophy? or how about a star in your crown? Where, in the gospel, did you have a part to play? Did you obey for Jesus when He dealt with our bent-to-self, even unto death? Then what part do you think you can add to God's work in Christ? I would like for you to make a list and publicize it for all to see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Okay, 137 posts later and not one person has defined the gospel of Christ, that is, besides me. This is the basis of our salvation yet no one can verbalize it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo And my cooperation is human devising? Is anyone saved without their cooperation? Bubba Gerry...You don't get it! Wah, wah. Where's the moderator? Quote: But you are not the only one. Your cooperation had nothing to do with what God did in Christ. Christ did it all. That's the gospel. The moment you add anything to Christ's finished work that moment you might as well join the RCC. Listen, Sonny boy. Where did I say that my acceptance of His gift added to what He has done? Where? What you are doing is just knocking down the strawman that you keep setting up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2011 Okay, 137 posts later and not one person has defined the gospel of Christ, that is, besides me. This is the basis of our salvation yet no one can verbalize it? A few people have, but you refuse to acknowledge them because they don't meet your self-made definition of what it is. So here it is again: I'm a lawbreaker condemned to die. Jesus offers to save me from the penalty of my transgression. More than that, He even offers to deliver me from its power, from its presence, and even from enjoying it. All I have to do is accept His offer and allow Him to be LORD of my life. Isn't that great, great news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Listen, Sonny boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 I'm a lawbreaker condemned to die. Jesus offers to save me from the penalty of my transgression. More than that.... Yes, the "more than that" is another subject. Can we just keep this to the gospel? How can God justify sinners on the basis of what Christ did and still maintain His integrity to His own law which condemns us to death? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 18, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 18, 2011 Okay, fair enough, but in order to understand your position you need to answer how Christ saved the human race in Himself even though His own law justly condemns them. He didn't abolish the law in order to justify us, right? If the law could be abolished, why would He bother to give His life for the sinner? Quote: So please explain how Christ did it, or do you agree with Pastor Sequeira's "in Christ motif"? Maybe I should say Paul's "in Christ motif" because it came from him? HOW important is it for you or me to KNOW EXACTLY HOW He did it? Would I lose my salvation if I did not understand ALL the nuances? Let me point out again that Paul did not only teach about being "in Christ", he also taught "Christ in you, the hope of glory." And our Lord Himself taught, "you in Me, and I in you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 18, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 18, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo I'm a lawbreaker condemned to die. Jesus offers to save me from the penalty of my transgression. More than that.... Yes, the "more than that" is another subject. Can we just keep this to the gospel? No, no. The "more than that" IS part and parcel of the gospel!!! You can't spell "gospel" with just "gos". The "more than that" is the "pel" that completes the gospel. You will NEVER find Jesus separating the two. Quote: How can God justify sinners on the basis of what Christ did and still maintain His integrity to His own law which condemns us to death? I'll give you my answer later. I'm teaching the SS lesson tomorrow, so I have to prepare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 HOW important is it for you or me to KNOW EXACTLY HOW He did it? Would I lose my salvation if I did not understand ALL the nuances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 No, no. The "more than that" IS part and parcel of the gospel!!! Baloney! What God did in Christ is the gospel. What He does in you for accepting the gospel is called sanctification or the fruits of the gospel. Failing to realize this leads into "another gospel", which always leads into subtle legalism. The Galatians had this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sonny How can God justify sinners on the basis of what Christ did and still maintain His integrity to His own law which condemns us to death? I'll give you my answer later. I'm teaching the SS lesson tomorrow, so I have to prepare. Fair enough. At least you are willing to explore this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windsor Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo I'm a lawbreaker condemned to die. Jesus offers to save me from the penalty of my transgression. More than that.... Yes, the "more than that" is another subject. Can we just keep this to the gospel? How can God justify sinners on the basis of what Christ did and still maintain His integrity to His own law which condemns us to death? For the same reason that every human being that has ever existed save for Adam and Eve was born condemned to death because of the sins of our first parents. It seems fair to me that every sinner can therefore be justified (should they accept it) based on the perfect life of the Second Adam. Quote Remember Adventists Online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 For the same reason that every human ... was born condemned to death because of the sins of our first parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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