miz3 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 "you also died to the law through the body of Christ" 1] Who is the "you"? (hint: when One died, all died) 2] Where did we die? (hint: in the body of Christ) 3] What demanded our death? (hint: the law) On the Cross, Sonny, on the Cross! Not at the Birth! It's the Cross! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 It's the Cross! Okay, let's go with this. Did your old life from Adam die "in Christ"? That's at the cross! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Sonny, Yes, Sonny, you old life and my old life from Adam died ONLY ON THE CROSS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Yes, Sonny, you old life and my old life from Adam died ONLY ON THE CROSS! Sure, that's where it died, but where did Christ as God pick up "our old life"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Again, Sonny, it was at the Cross. It mimics the OT system. The lamb became the Jews sin at the point of death. Jesus Christ the Lamb of God took all our sin at the point of death, that would be the Cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: RLH If this is your understanding in a nutshell, then you should probably focus on the parts that YOU don't understand, and stop trying to explain it to others. I have my understanding, if it's wrong disprove me. I'm open. Don't have that kind of time to waste. But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. Titus 3:9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo The Gospel is tied up in the person of Christ, who takes upon Himself the penalty of my transgression, and delivers me from the power and continuing presence of sin in my life, and even takes away my taste for sin. Again, you might as well join the RCC. What you are doing is injecting something you do to get a reward, i.e., heaven. God saved you in Christ. You didn't make any contribution to this. You have turned the gospel from "Not I, but Christ" to "I plus Christ" This is Catholicism. This is Babylon. Guilt by association? Is that how you prove a doctrine wrong? Did I say anything about buying indulgenses for my sins? Your gospel is just taking away the penalty but leaves the sinner in the same state! No, Rob. That's a terrible news!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 This is not Scriptural! Wow, do you have that kind of authority where you can simply state such? I'd like to see proof myself. Let's start with Romans 7:4 "you also died to the law through the body of Christ" 1] Who is the "you"? (hint: when One died, all died) 2] Where did we die? (hint: in the body of Christ) 3] What demanded our death? (hint: the law) Got news for you: It is impossible for everyone to die to the law through the body of Christ. That is blasphemy. It is also Gnostic believing that your body is evil and the spirit is good. There is NO such thing as 'a body of Christ' and Paul was spouting lies by saying that the church is the body. That is totally Pagan it it's application. BTW, Grace of God ceases to be when the time of trouble starts because at that time the real truth, the gospel about the KOH will be given by the 144k and wise virgins, so there will be no fence sitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Jesus Christ was NOT BORN with "sinful nature" like you and me. Jesus Christ was BORN with a "sinless nature" and it was only on the Cross that Jesus Christ received our sins as the Lamb of God. This is the true Gospel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Don't have that kind of time to waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Your gospel is just taking away the penalty but leaves the sinner in the same state! No, Rob. That's a terrible news!!! The reception of the gospel changes the heart. That's the fruit of the gospel, but it's the gospel that is the basis of your salvation. If you don't understand it you'll fall into self-righteousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 It is impossible for everyone to die to the law through the body of Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Yes, Sonny, you old life and my old life from Adam died ONLY ON THE CROSS! Sure, that's where it died, but where did Christ as God pick up "our old life"? You didn't answer this question....All you wrote about was the symbolic lamb. IF Christ defeated indwelling sin, which is in our humanity, and you and I died in Him, then at some point Christ had to assume our humanity. Clearly that was a birth: But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Have you considered Zechariah 3 Sonny? After the righteousness of Christ is given to man, there is a condition that follows. It is that condition you are denying. Because of that you are denying the gospel, whilst preaching against the genuine gospel. That you have to be very careful of. Unless you can explain the conditions that follow in Zechariah 3, in clearness and clarity, you should not be denouncing what others are presenting. And a "you do not have the gospel" will not suffice. Mark :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Your gospel is just taking away the penalty but leaves the sinner in the same state! No, Rob. That's a terrible news!!! The reception of the gospel changes the heart. That's the fruit of the gospel, but it's the gospel that is the basis of your salvation. If you don't understand it you'll fall into self-righteousness. The gospel is the WHOLE tree!!! A fig tree is of not much use without the fruit. And fruit is impossible without the tree. Again, it comes as a package. Look at the sanctuary sacrificial system again. Is the sinner's salvation complete when he brought his sacrificial lamb at the altar in the courtyard? NO! The process has just begun! The plan of salvation is complete restoration, not just justification. That's the good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Sonny, Christ picked up "our old life" at the Cross! Again, Sonny, THE CROSS! THE CROSS! THE CROSS! The Cross is the central and critical point of the Gospel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Have you considered Zechariah 3 Sonny? After the righteousness of Christ is given to man, there is a condition that follows. Again, try to remain on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Sonny, Christ picked up "our old life" at the Cross! Prove it....Show me where God placed our old life in Him at the cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Sonny, Christ picked up "our old life" at the Cross! Prove it....Show me where God placed our old life in Him at the cross. I can show you that Christ had our flesh during the time of John the Baptist: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.....14 And the Word [God the Son] became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. Here we see Christ as God who "became" flesh while remaining Himself, God. So apparently Christ as God took upon His Divinity our flesh before the cross! Now, when did Christ as God assume our flesh? Had to be at the incarnation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Prove it....Show me where God placed our old life in Him at the cross. I have many many times. Reread what I have quoted on this thread and especially what I quoted on the other thread in regard to this subject. I have shown you from the Bible many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich It is impossible for everyone to die to the law through the body of Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:14 NIV For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. Quote: There is NO such thing as 'a body of Christ' and Paul was spouting lies by saying that the church is the body. Now who is telling lies? Should I believe you or Paul? It seems that it is you that's turned to a different gospel, which is really no gospel at all. I suggest that you embrace Paul's letters to the church because they are of God. I have to agree with this one. Probably the only thing we will ever agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Have you considered Zechariah 3 Sonny? After the righteousness of Christ is given to man, there is a condition that follows. It is that condition you are denying. Because of that you are denying the gospel, whilst preaching against the genuine gospel. That you have to be very careful of. Unless you can explain the conditions that follow in Zechariah 3, in clearness and clarity, you should not be denouncing what others are presenting. And a "you do not have the gospel" will not suffice. Mark :-) Amen! You are absolutely right Mark. But like so many CINO Christians today, Sonny doesn't want any conditions, because then he would have to change. So much easier just to coast into heaven without a struggle. (as if that were possible) Still clinging to the bad temper, sharp tongue, stinking thinking, and a lifetime of un-forsaken sins. With no need to overcome anything. Even though the Bible is very plain that there is a race to be run, a fight to be fought, and sins to be confessed AND forsaken. Rev 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it. 6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:1-14. Here is the whole text, Sonny! Notice verse four: In Christ was the Light of Life! That means in Christ has no sin! If Christ had been born with "sin Him" then Christ would have had "darkness" in Him! The text clearly states that in Christ there was no darkness at all! Also, verse fourteen, the "flesh" is the outer "flesh" because later in that same verse it says that Christ "came from the Father, full of grace and truth". That means although Christ came with the outer flesh of humanity within Christ DIRECT FROM THE FATHER Christ was full only of pureness and no sin! Sonny you asked for proof, there it is right in the very text you cited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 You know that in a race all the runners run but only one wins the prize, don't you? You must run in such a way that you may be victorious. Now everyone who competes exercises self-control in everything. However, they do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Therefore I do not run like one who runs aimlessly, or box like one who beats the air. Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified. 1Co 9:24-27 (ISV)&(HCSB) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 The plan of salvation is complete restoration, not just justification. That's the good news. You don't understand what it means to be just. To be just means that the law is completely content with your righteousness. Is the law completely happy with your life or are you falling short of God's love as seen in the life of Christ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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