I continue to support EGW in this comment she made.

[Stan]

Quote:

Those who have proclaimed the Seventh-day Adventist Church as Babylon, have made use of the Testimonies in giving their position a seeming support; but why is it that they did not present that which for years has been the burden of my message--the unity of the church?

Why did they not quote the words of the angel, "Press together, press together, press together"? Why did they not repeat the admonition and state the principle, that "in union there is strength, in division there is weakness"?

It is such messages as these men have borne that divide the church, and put us to shame before the enemies of truth; and in such messages is plainly revealed the specious working of the great deceiver, who would hinder the church from attaining unto perfection in unity.

These teachers follow the sparks of their own kindling, move according to their own independent judgment, and cumber the truth with false notions and theories.

They refuse the counsel of their brethren, and press on in their own way until they become just what Satan would desire to have them--unbalanced in mind. {TM 56.1}

[Stan]

ANYone guess which group I am thinking of as I read that?

[Pastor_Chick]

Stan,

Thank you again for opening up this matter before the readers. It is really well nigh its time.

And again, I trust that you shall explain the setting of this writing; you will find that it is connected to what you posted from SOP on your other related thread here.

[Pastor_Chick]

Stan,

Since you are either unwilling or lacking sufficient time to educate us on the circumstances surrounding these EGW statements, I will supply this link for further study.

http://csdachurch.tripod.com/sda_1893.html

[Don_Don07]

Not even sure what or if there is an argument here. Sounds like the two of you are in agreement.

[Pastor_Chick]

Not even sure what or if there is an argument here. Sounds like the two of you are in agreement.

[skyblue888]

Brother Chick, "The important movements of the present have their parallel in those of the past, and the experience of the church in former ages has lessons of great value for your own time." G.C.343.

The Jewish people resisted the light that Jesus sent to them through the 12 and the 70. This was the first call of Matt.22 to the Jewish church. (See C.O.L.308) It was rejected as predicted in the parable. Likewise, the SDA people rejected the light Jesus sent to them in 1888. This was the first call of Matt.22 to the SDA church. It was rejected as predicted in the parable. (See 1 S.M.234,235)

The rejection of the first call to the Jewish people was followed by the crucifixion of Christ. This was the "omega" of apostasy spearheaded by their religious leaders. The rejection of the first call to the SDA people in 1888 was followed by the crucifixion of the messages that God had entrusted to them while the leaders of the G.C. held 18 conferences with the churches that constitute Babylon. This was the "omega" of the apostasy in the SDA church.

The crucifixion of Christ, the "omega" of apostasy in the Jewish church, was followed by the second and last call to the Jewish people beginning after Pentecost. That message was not a call for separation but the offer of mercy, the offer of pardon. This second call was not only rejected. The Jews were so exasperated by this offer of mercy that they turned upon the bearers of the message. There was a great persecution which forced the bearers of the message and their converts to turn to the Gentiles. This is represented by the third call of the parable.

The crucifixion of the messages, the "omega" of apostsay in the SDA church, is to be followed by the second and last call to the Advent people beginning after the descent of the Holy Spirit in large measure. This message will not be a call for separation but the offer of mercy, the offer of pardon. The Advent people will be so exasperated by this offer of mercy that they will turn upon the bearers of the message and character assassinate them. There will be a great persecution which will forced the bearers of the message and their converts to turn to the world and their message will swell into the loud cry and when the mission of the Gospel shall be completed, the judgment (of the living) will accomplish the final separation between the wise and the foolish and their destiny will be forever fixed. (See C.O.L.122,123).

Like the Jewish people who had become so much like the Romans the Advent people have become so much like the world that no difference can be seen. We have made compromises in order to gain friendship with the worldly churches, with Babylon. But we have more to fear from their friendship than from their enmity. And now we have more to fear from within than from without. (see 1 S.M.222)

So "Amid the confusing voices, 'Lo, here is Christ! Lo, there is Christ!' will be borne a special message of truth appropriate for this time, which message is to be received, believed, and acted upon. It is the truth, not fanciful ideas, that is efficacious." E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.7, p.984.

"The efficacy of the blood of Christ was to be presented to the people with freshness and power, that their faith might lay hold upon its merits. As the high priest sprinkled the warm blood upon the mercy seat while the fragrant cloud of incense ascended before God, so while we confess our sins and plead the efficacy of Christ's atoning blood, our prayers are to ascend to Heaven, fragrant with the merits of our Saviour's character." T.M.92,93.

These words Mrs. White wrote in regard to the 1888 message which is to be repeated for the last time. Why is it so important that our faith should be led to lay hold upon the merits of Christ's shed blood? For the simple reason that this is the only faith that will benefit us for as it lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour His righteousness is brought into the life and it is made manfifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. This is the faith that works by love to purify the soul. (See T.M.92; F.W.65,66).

In other words "Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93.

This is the last message of mercy which is to be proclaimed to the Advent people in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God before it is proclaimed to the world. It is the third angels message in clear, distinct lines. (T.M.93,96,97) It is a last invitation to exercise the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the Saviour to bring His righteousness into the life and His righteousness accomplishes everything. (See F.W.27)

sky

"The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." Desire of Ages, p.347.

[Light Fox]

Sky,

I notice that this theory of yours about the first, second, and third calls of Matthew 22 being repeated to the SDA denomination is something of a "pet doctrine" of yours - that is, you are presenting it very frequently across different threads, and rarely taking into account the replies offered you about why it is not a sustainable doctrine.

Would you be open to starting a thread devoted to this view? I am not particularly willing to participate in diverting discussion from several threads to this idea. Suffice to say, your underlying premise of Matthew 22 being fully repeated with 'extended probation' (ignoring all time prophecies involved) is not consented to as an agreed upon truth. As a result, bringing it into these discussions as supporting evidence is just going to cause a derail.

In the interest of advancing discussion in a profitable way, do you have any agreed upon facts - Inspired Writings or Scriptures - to apply to this issue? If the only thing you have to submit is your own doctrine about a second fulfillment of Matthew 22, I would advise you to reconsider the basis of your disagreement. That is not establishing every fact in the mouth of two or three witnesses.

[skyblue888]

Mrs. White makes a second and final application of it beginning in 1844. This parable ends with the investigative judgment of the living, the closing work in the sanctuary above, as this statement clearly shows:

"In the parable of Matt.22 the same figure of the marriage is introduced, and the investigative judgment is clearly represented as taking place before the marriage. Previous to the wedding the king comes in to see the guests, to see if all are attired in the wedding garment, the spotless robe of character washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb. Matt.22:11; Rev.7:14. He who is found wanting is cast out, but all who upon examination are seen to have the wedding garment on are accepted of God and accounted worthy of a share in His kingdom and a seat upon His throne. This work of examination of character, of determining who are prepared for the kingdom of God, is that of the investigagive judgment, the closing work in the sanctuary above." The Great Controversy, 428.

When Jesus spoke that parable He was looking down the ages with His eyes fixed upon our time.

[skyblue888]

Would you be open to starting a thread devoted to this view? I am not particularly willing to participate in diverting discussion from several threads to this idea. Suffice to say, your underlying premise of Matthew 22 being fully repeated with 'extended probation' (ignoring all time prophecies involved) is not consented to as an agreed upon truth. As a result, bringing it into these discussions as supporting evidence is just going to cause a derail.

________________________________________

No "derail" as it is pertinent to the discussion.

But I will start a new thread over Matt.22.

I would ask you to read all the posts and then share your comments. I will post the first fulfilment with the Jews (not complete fulfilment with them for the work was not finished) followed by the second fulfilment beginning in 1844.

sky

[Overaged]

quote=EGW]Regarding the testimonies, nothing is ignored; nothing is cast aside; but time and place must be considered. (1SM 57)/quote]

What you have done here is a classic textbook case of mis-using the testimonies in ways Ellen White would never condone. This is seen frequently in fringe and lone-wolf groups such as the so called Creation Seventh-day Adventist Church. Sticking the word "creation" into the name does not mean it is "Adventist."

The quote you abused here does not mean that something written in the 1800s would not apply to us today.

[Pastor_Chick]

True brotherhood can never be maintained by compromising principle. As Christians approach the Christlike model, and become pure in spirit and action, they will feel the venom of the serpent. (RH 01-16-00)

[skyblue888]

Yes and in more than one ways. So many confusing voices in Adventism today, but

"Amid the confusing voices, 'Lo, here is Christ!' "Lo, there is Christ!' will be borne a special testimony, a special message of truth appropriate for this time, which message is to be received, believed, and acted upon." E.G. White.

sky

[Alchemy]

So much of this stuff sounds more like Shepherd's Rod. They are the true Remnant...We are the true SDA Church...etc.

There is only "one" Remnant Church of God in these last days, and that message is in the Seventh-day Adventist Church!

Alchemy.

[Gibs]

I do not say the SDA denomination is Babylon yet but too much error has come in and something must be done and quickly. Too many solid true ones left and this doesn't cause the leadership to evaluate and recant nothing.

EGW saw it coming and was pretty discouraged after the 1903 the GC turned back around again to what it was before she had turned it in 1901

I have been watching and hoping for years and the down slide just becomes worse is what I see. I'm 80 years old and you young ones don't see it, talk to some other old SDA's my age that have been dissenting the apostasies coming in.

2Th 2:3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So the question then arises, where do you think that falling away would occur? Man it has to occur in the true church, the fallen church is already fallen away. You got to know that is not happening in Satan's camp.

True ones, let's get after the error that has come in and see if you can move it out. I am but one, we need many and will any come?

[Guest arnie]

Hi Gibs, What errors are you writing of? Could you be more specific on the phrase,"falling away"? In what way is the Church downsliding? I've been around almost as long as you and I haven't a clue as to what you're referring. The gospel isn't complicated. I know there are some people in the Church who are mean and contancorous,(now, that's worldly) who haven't got a clue what Jesus meant when He advocated that the two greatest commandments are: To love God with all your heart and soul and mind and your neighbor as yourself. As a whole, I think this is the policy of the World Church and, of course, to spread the good news of Jesus soon return. The Church is doing a great job. The gospel is not complicated and we shouldn't make it so. Paul, in his letter to Titus warns against "foolish controversies arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless". I've noticed that this does occasionaly happen among some in the Adventist Church and when this happens, it usually means we're bored and need something to do.

Arnie

[phkrause]

Hi Gibs, What errors are you writing of? Could you be more specific on the phrase,"falling away"? In what way is the Church downsliding? I've been around almost as long as you and I haven't a clue as to what you're referring. The gospel isn't complicated. I know there are some people in the Church who are mean and contancorous,(now, that's worldly) who haven't got a clue what Jesus meant when He advocated that the two greatest commandments are: To love God with all your heart and soul and mind and your neighbor as yourself. As a whole, I think this is the policy of the World Church and, of course, to spread the good news of Jesus soon return. The Church is doing a great job. The gospel is not complicated and we shouldn't make it so. Paul, in his letter to Titus warns against "foolish controversies arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless". I've noticed that this does occasionaly happen among some in the Adventist Church and when this happens, it usually means we're bored and need something to do.

Arnie

[mrsducky]

That makes sense!

[mrsducky]

[Pastor_Chick]

Hi Gibs, What errors are you writing of? Could you be more specific on the phrase,"falling away"? In what way is the Church downsliding? I've been around almost as long as you and I haven't a clue as to what you're referring. The gospel isn't complicated. I know there are some people in the Church who are mean and contancorous,(now, that's worldly) who haven't got a clue what Jesus meant when He advocated that the two greatest commandments are: To love God with all your heart and soul and mind and your neighbor as yourself. As a whole, I think this is the policy of the World Church and, of course, to spread the good news of Jesus soon return. The Church is doing a great job. The gospel is not complicated and we shouldn't make it so. Paul, in his letter to Titus warns against "foolish controversies arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless". I've noticed that this does occasionaly happen among some in the Adventist Church and when this happens, it usually means we're bored and need something to do.

Arnie

Arnie,

It was apostasy from the pure gospel that led to the formation of the papacy (the first beast of Rev. 13) which was an unholy union of church and state commissioned to correct heretics.

It is apostasy from the truth that has led to the formation of the "image of the beast," which is another ecclesiastical organization clothed with civil power in order to enforce their religious and corporate policies while correcting "heretics."

[Gibs]

Arnie, If you've been around as long as I have then you should know. I'm 80+ and several years ago there was a great shaking over mainly the "new age salvation theology" and a very many ministries broke off and are still running. Many, many home churches began and I am of that number. NLP came in, followed by Lab 1,2,3, the Trinity doctrine came in starting around 1950. Now you have "emerging church", and all that goes with it. It is following other than Jesus Christ.

I've been over this stuff many times on this site. Some here are not extreme liberalists but most are. Some want to have the term legalist or conserative or liberist. I don't want any of those terms, I am neither a legalist or a liberalist, but my see is we must stay on that narrow way between those 2 ditches.

My main theme is we must all become overcomers in the here and now if you want to inherit the Kingdom of God.

Jesus made it possible for each of us to overcome as He did and it is expected. He took no power to overcome the world and Satan and his but what we can have.

The secret, mystery was revealed by Paul to the GEntiles,

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Christ in you and all things are possible, even overcoming Satan the world and all sin.

Every last one of us can be saved and be overcomers and all that fall short of the mark will see it is their own faults. The truth of salvation is made clear, it is Christ's way and not man's. Man has a theology of the matter and that is his theory. There is no theology about it, it is nothing but fifth grade reading in the KJV Bible. Out with theology we must have the truth and it is there, don't need no wresting as men do with it especially on the salvation issue.

I could go on but I'm tired. Just will add you will have to look around to find one pastor who teaches it right, they are few anymore.

I love this verse, it says so much that all need to realize.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Pastor_Chick]

Gibs,

Thank you for the post on TNWM forum. Evidently, the way is too narrow for me, for my application was not activated.

Like I posted earlier, it would be interesting to reason together sometime.

[Springs]

Gibs,

Amen to your comments on overcoming!

[Scion]

I am curious as to how Overaged thinks that the quote at the top of this thread was misused. It is clear he disagrees with the conclusion, but his reply seems to be, "That doesn't apply to us today." I think the very essence of the quote is that some things DO continue to apply to us today, even if the particulars change.