Is the Church Babylon?

[phkrause]

The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place.--2SM 380 (1886). {LDE 180.5}

It's clear to me that it is the chaff/tares that are to be sifted/rooted out of the church, not the wheat!!!

And who decides who are the wheat and the tares? People who can only the outside are bound to make mistakes. If the "wheat" are the ones to move out of the church and form another group, what will they do when they find out there are still tares within their group? Move out and call that Babylon too? That will go on ad infinitum. Madness!

I'm in agreement Gerry, that's exactly the way I read and understand this to mean.

[Pastor_Chick]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place.--2SM 380 (1886). {LDE 180.5}

It's clear to me that it is the chaff/tares that are to be sifted/rooted out of the church, not the wheat!!!

And who decides who are the wheat and the tares? People who can only the outside are bound to make mistakes. If the "wheat" are the ones to move out of the church and form another group, what will they do when they find out there are still tares within their group? Move out and call that Babylon too? That will go on ad infinitum. Madness!

I'm in agreement Gerry, that's exactly the way I read and understand this to mean.

[skyblue888]

"The heavenly principles that distinguish those who are one with Christ from those who are one with the world have become almost indistinguishable. The professed followers of Christ are no longer a separate and peculiar people. The line of distinction is indistinct. The people are subordinating themselves to the world, to its practices, its customs, its selfishness. The church has gone over to the world in transgression of the law, when the world should have come over to the church in obedience to the law. Daily the church is being converted to the world." C.O.L.315,316. (1901)

"The message to the church of the Laodiceans applies especially to the people of God today. It is a message to professing Christians who have become so much like the world that no difference can be seeen." RH Aug.20,19013.

sky

[skyblue888]

Previously quoted by Pastor Chick on the first page:

"Thus the message of the third angel will be proclaimed. As the time comes for it to be given with greatest power, the Lord will work through humble instruments, leading the minds of those who consecrate themselves to His service. The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of His Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them. The sins of Babylon will be laid open. The fearful results of enforcing the observances of the church by civil authority, the inroads of spiritualism, the stealthy but rapid progress of the papal power [restriction of liberty of conscience]--all will be unmasked. By these solemn warnings the people will be stirred. Thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from heaven. As the people go to their former teachers with the eager inquiry, Are these things so? the ministers present fables, prophesy smooth things, to soothe their fears and quiet the awakened conscience. But since many refuse to be satisfied with the mere authority of men and demand a plain 'Thus saith the Lord,' the popular ministry, like the Pharisees of old, filled with anger as their authority is questioned, will denounce the message as of Satan and stir up the sin-loving multitudes to revile and persecute those who proclaim it. (GC 606, 607; brackets and emphasis supplied)

_______________

This is taking place during the loud cry. According to the parable of Matt.22 the bidden ones (SDA.org) by that time will have rejected the second call and thus that organization will have become part of Babylon the great whose sins will have reached unto heaven and the honest ones will be called to separate from the communion of all the churches that constitute Babylon the Great.

sky

[Tammy]

Quote:

To claim that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, is to make the same claim as does Satan, who is an accuser of the brethren, who accuses them before God night and day. {TM 42.1}

What kind of person would do this?

[Gibs]

The Sabbath Lightly Regarded?!

EGW speaks,

"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. {1SM 204.2}

Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? {1SM 205.1}

I hesitated and delayed about the sending out of that which the Spirit of the Lord impelled me to write. I did not want to be compelled to present the misleading influence of these sophistries. But in the providence of God, the errors that have been coming in must be met." {1SM 205.2}

Did you notice she calls it the "church" a structure when it builds upon the sand instead of the Word. She didn't call it Babylon but structure may fit to a "T" now!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Tammy]

That is a good point, Gibbs... Another point is that the Jewish church was never called "Babylon", BUT...

Quote:

It was by departure from the Lord, and alliance with the heathen, that the Jewish church became a harlot; and Rome, corrupting herself in like manner by seeking the support of worldly powers, receives a like condemnation. {GC 382.2}

Babylon is said to be "the mother of harlots." ....

it was called a "harlot"....WHO is the "mother of harlots"? Babylon....

Obviously, when the Jewish Church began, it wasn't a harlot....but as time went on, things changed... I believe there is a direct // with the SDA Church and the Jewish Church.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

"Now, if you can find me where she says it can never become Babylon, can never fall, and can never have the faithful gathered out of it even if it repeats the exact errors of those before her, I'll be very interested in that quote. As of yet, I have not seen it. "

For those who follow the Word as the Christ's instruction to His children, this would be what you are asking for. If that identifies the Adventist body of believers' in the governance of that body, that would include them.

"“The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’

“‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed.

“‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked.

“‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.’”"

Matthew 13:27-30 NLT

I see nothing here that suggests a leaving of the body of believers as a result of false doctrine entering toward the end of time, just before Jesus returns. Ellen White would have the blessings of her writings as inspired by the Spirit, speak so long as there are individuals who have the faith to believe God capable of personal contact with those willing to listen.

"Indeed, the Sovereign LORD never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7 NLT

Also I have sent to you all My servants the prophets, sending them again and again, saying: ‘ Turn now every man from his evil way and amend your deeds, and do not go after other gods to worship them. Then you will dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your forefathers; but you have not inclined your ear or listened to Me.

Jeremiah 35:15 NASB

To Speak to the End—Abundant light has been given ... life is spared, my writings will constantly speak, and their work will ... as time shall last. My writings are kept on file in ... still have life and will speak to the people. ..Selected Messages Book 3, p. 76.4 —Letter 371

The same principles apply now as have always applied.

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."Hebrews 13:8 NKJV

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

as I have said before...

those who talk about the wheat and tares, usually act like they are the wheat.

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

the great final test will accomplish the final separation between the wise and the foolish and their destiny will be forever fixed.

I'm of the opinion that those who are found to be of the foolish virgins are the ones who stand around finding or debating fault instead of occupying their time with the specific task of following Jesus' instructions.

"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."Mark 16:14-16 KJV

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."Matthew 24:14 NASB

God blesses!

[Gibs]

Folks you might take time to read this one from EGW, here she is pretty down on the condition of things in leadership of the church!,

EGW speaks,

My dear Brethren in Positions of Trust:

I received your letter this morning, and will respond at once. {PC 124.1}

Brother Harper came to St. Helena last week especially to lay before me the question of the location of the General Conference soon to be held. He told me that the brethren and sisters of the Healdsburg church offered to entertain the delegates free of cost, if the General Conference would be held there. He asked if I had any preference to express. I told him that if the Healdsburg church proposed to entertain the delegates free, the Conference would be held at Healdsburg, if I had any voice in deciding this matter; for to hold it there would be much more in accordance with the light given to leave the cities as much as possible, than holding it in Oakland would be. {PC 124.2}

I thought that if the brethren and sisters at Healdsburg would do what I was told they were so desirous of doing, to hold the Conference there would be much more desirable than to hold it in Oakland at this time of the year. I knew that accommodations in Oakland for entertaining to large a company were very limited, and expensive. {PC 124.3}

I desire my personal preferences to have no special influence in determining where the Conference shall be held; for unless specially convinced by the Spirit of the Lord that it is my duty to be present, I will not attend, no matter where the meeting may be held. If I knew that I should have to attend the Conference, I might express my preference for Healdsburg as the location; for I could drive over, and have my horse and carriage there to use at any time, and to return when necessary. {PC 124.4}

At present, I most decidedly dread to attend either camp meetings or Conferences. When present at such meetings, I am reigned up to speak plainly and strongly in regard to matters; for I dare not do otherwise than to tell the truth. The burden that comes upon me at such times is very heavy. The experiences I have passed through in attending meetings since returning to America, have been most afflicting; for it seems as if my efforts are of none effect. The testimonies borne bring upon me a great burden of soul, and seem to accomplish so little to change the order of things. The testimonies are speculated upon, and do not reform existing evils. {PC 124.5}

Just now my courage is not the best. Since the Fresno camp meeting, I have carried the burden of the Southern field in direct opposition to the plans of leading brethren. I have lost confidence in some of these men as being taught and directed of God. If they are thus taught and directed, I am not teaching the way of the Lord. Therefore I am convinced that my place is at home. I can continue to write, if I avoid the crushing burdens that overwhelm me. And these burdens come upon me whenever I attend a meeting where there are men whom I know are not walking in the counsel of God. I care not to face such matters any longer; for it seems useless. I long for retirement, and I mean to have it, if it be the Lord's will to give it to me.

(Signed) Ellen G. White

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[CryTears]

Stan, when you asked which group were thinking about re calling the church Babylon.

I couldn't help but think about The WayBent-messiah!

Ex SDA pastor from Sandpoint Idaho, who urged a large group of people to leave Babylon!

They followed this SDA pastor, Wayne Bent,(I'm sorry but honestly, cannot write his name as Way Bent describes him!)

While they moved around, settling out in isolated/desolated area in very NE corner of New Mexico.

This Way-Bent person claims he is the messiah as he states "I m divinity and Humanity combined...I AM messiah!"

One youtube video clip, "End of the World" cult documentary made by Ben Anthony was documented for some time, then this sordid story was aired. Numerous folks called Law Enforcement and Bent was arrested...sex crimes with children, go figure!

These people quote SOP like back of their hands, except they've allowed this WayBent man to control and lead them, even now from his prison cell!

He continues believing that god came down on him one day, telling him he IS messiah and to have "the consummation" with his sons wife. She's half his age! But the 2 "messengers" who left their husbands, joined Bent for sexual rituals, aka "The consummations!)...this deviated pervert also caught doing nasties with under aged girls.

He keeps saying that the SDA church IS in fact babylon and those who reject his testimony or don't believe he is messiah, will all be lost!...OK...if heaven means having sex with this ugly old perverted psycho, then, no thanks! I'd rather burn in hell that to have "the consummations" with the animal.

What I don't understand is HOW can these people be so deceived and continue to believe he gives them salvation!

Can Google search his name, YouTube has numerous clips about this, then few years later, film maker, Anthony, made another documentary "Messiah on trial"...Bent got 18 yrs for his crimes even with all their lies told under oath and the younger gals uncooperative as they refused to "tattle tell" on the old pervert as he warned them their salvation would be lost!

This guy has same exact thinking as Koresh...well, any wonder? As they have same spirit leading and guiding them out in the desert!...big-time DUH...he's out in the desert, claiming to be messiah!

I love EGW quotes regarding people who do this WILL end up mad!

and is all caught on video!...LoL!

If there's ONE thing I despise, hate and wish nothing but death/and destruction on ANY Adventist who bring devastation to others, including children!

My son was groomed, then molested by his Escondido Jr Academy.

His bible and music teacher, Maurice Woods, serving 87 months us prison for sexual crimes with children!

He was most unsuspecting and religious person we've ever met!

Sadly, my son was also molested by a PUC area Pathfinder leader.

The bible/music teacher, got caught having sex with young exchange students, caught doing such while up in Canada, made this a federal case. Bents now throwing a royal tantrum as "The Beast" put him there, when all he was doing was "healing rituals!" He routinely refers to the SDA faith as babylon.

Oooookay then, if this was nothing more than religious ritual, WHY were the girls in bed, between sheets with him on top?! Lights out, middle of the night and why ONLY younger, thinner beauties/females and refused to lay naked, on top the male cult members who begged for "The Consummation"...one gal tried starving herself to death, Dr Phil helped rescue her.

But he's nothing more than perverted criminal.

He laid naked, atop a naked younger gal, as a healing ritual, from being molested...later he "consummated" with them, as their 18th BD...wiley fox!

Anyway....ANY church leader who molest young boys are beyond evil and sick minded....but Bent claimed they no longer sinned! Ha! Go figure!

Like I wrote above...Google search name Wayne Bent or LOR cult to find these video links.

[Stan]

This is powerful. When I get settled would like to dig deeper

[Gibs]

I agree CryTears, That jasper is nasty and the blind should see him for what he is. But have you noticed, the evil always gets a following in this old world regardless of how apparent it is seen to be of the evil.

For me I see that the problem is there is a huge problem and none will open their eyes to see the problems in the church. Then the next problem is hardly none will put their shoulder to the wheel and be counted for the right.

Is there any doubt the SDA denomination has gotten off the track? Is there a great shaking coming?, or is it over already is the question. I hope not!

A point to note is this, people like Wayne Bent cause folks in the denomination to be satisfied with the condition it is in. But it is higher and then higher ground each member of the church is to attain to and thus the church becomes purer and purer.

Jesus Christ is the leader of His Church and men need to follow Him and not the blind leading the blind. The ones who are not blind see things are out of hand in the denomination!

All together the ship could be righted. Where will you stand?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Pastor_Chick]

I agree CryTears, That jasper is nasty and the blind should see him for what he is. But have you noticed, the evil always gets a following in this old world regardless of how apparent it is seen to be of the evil.

For me I see that the problem is there is a huge problem and none will open their eyes to see the problems in the church. Then the next problem is hardly none will put their shoulder to the wheel and be counted for the right.

Is there any doubt the SDA denomination has gotten off the track? Is there a great shaking coming?, or is it over already is the question. I hope not!

A point to note is this, people like Wayne Bent cause folks in the denomination to be satisfied with the condition it is in. But it is higher and then higher ground each member of the church is to attain to and thus the church becomes purer and purer.

Jesus Christ is the leader of His Church and men need to follow Him and not the blind leading the blind. The ones who are not blind see things are out of hand in the denomination!

All together the ship could be righted. Where will you stand?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I shall address this particularly to CryTears, Stan, and Gibs...

I knew Wayne Bent from the 1980s. I regarded him as a brother in Christ and fellow Adventist -- a very intelligent Bible student as well.

His ministry resulted in miraculous turn-a rounds in the lives of many individuals and broken families. So, what happened?

Those who loved and appreciated him most placed him on a pedestal which eventually ruined the man. On the other hand, his enemies sought to find as much fault with him as possible, leading to a thorough demonization by the media.

The greatest problem came when Wayne Bent and his followers departed from Adventism. Instead of clinging to the "sure word of God" in the tried and proven writings, interest was taken in other writings of questionable repute. A species of spiritualism came in and resulted in fanaticism. Satan took full advantage of the situation.

Obviously, when Satan personates Christ to the point that one agrees with the deception, things are going to become out of hand and souls are going to fall off the path.

I refuse to demonize a deceived man. I pray for all men everywhere that they might repent and return unto YAHWEH. It is not my calling to close any soul's probation. A word to the wise should be sufficient.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. (Matt. 7:2)

You cannot judge whether a religious body is "Babylon" by judging a fallen man or group of men. You will only condemn yourselves.

But, you can KNOW that a religious body is "Babylon" when they cannot tell light from darkness. And even those confused ones CAN repent and return unto YAHWEH. It is not until that confused religious body calls light darkness and darkness light that "Babylon is fallen," and there is no longer any hope afforded them -- "Too late, too late."

I believe it is wise to walk in the light as HE (Christ) is in the light. "The night is coming when no man can work."

[Gibs]

Pastor Chick,

I am sorry to hear that about Wayne Bent. It is said about A T Jones he got embittered and defensive but is said he righted things before his death. Yes I agree any can turn around and be back in the fold of our Lord's graces. And yes I hope for W. Bent he does too.

As far as the denomination knowing light from darkness that is a shaky question. Some would say she cannot and what she is into and teaches cinches it. Well I will not be the judge for anyone else but each must for himself. I don't call her Babylon but a structure. I had removed my name on the Salvation issue and am a home churcher. Many at that time parted and a great shaking happened. Will there be another? Maybe so, and would like to see it righted along with many who saw departure was necessary.

We must follow Christ and we must have His indwelling. He alone is our safe guide and His Way the Only Way. Man's way is quick sand.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Pastor_Chick]

Pastor Chick,

I am sorry to hear that about Wayne Bent. It is said about A T Jones he got embittered and defensive but is said he righted things before his death. Yes I agree any can turn around and be back in the fold of our Lord's graces. And yes I hope for W. Bent he does too.

As far as the denomination knowing light from darkness that is a shaky question. Some would say she cannot and what she is into and teaches cinches it. Well I will not be the judge for anyone else but each must for himself. I don't call her Babylon but a structure. I had removed my name on the Salvation issue and am a home churcher. Many at that time parted and a great shaking happened. Will there be another? Maybe so, and would like to see it righted along with many who saw departure was necessary.

We must follow Christ and we must have His indwelling. He alone is our safe guide and His Way the Only Way. Man's way is quick sand.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Gibs,

Thank you for the courteous response. I would enjoy reasoning with you at some point.

Have you read much of the CSDA Church beliefs, and if so, what do you object to? Thanks in advance.

[Coming_of_EliYAH]

If the church which is the foundation of truth and righteousness in the world is the church, how can it be "Babylon"?

If the church is the corporate unity of members who are saints, how can it be "Babylon"?

If the church is keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, how can it be "Babylon"?

Babylon is NOT the church, right? But, wait! What does this inspired message mean?

Thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from Heaven. As the people go to their former teachers with the eager inquiry, Are these things so? the ministers present fables, prophesy smooth things, to soothe their fears, and quiet the awakened conscience. GC 606,607

Now, be honest. Let us take a survey.

Would the following believers be "amazed" to "hear the testimony that Babylon is the church"?

1) Pentecostals NO

2) Baptists NO

3) Presbyterians NO

4) Catholics NO

5) Mormons NO

6) JW NO

7) Church of God NO

8) Lutherans NO

9) Methodists NO

10) SDA ........YES In fact, they are MORE than "amazed" to hear such a testimony. If you do not know what I mean, post me.

And it goes further...

What member of any other denomination would take time to go visit their "former teachers" (mentors) to see how this accusation could be true? Ans: Only SDA members.

So, the thread is titled, "Is the Church Babylon?"

As EliYAH, sent from God to prepare the way for Christ's second coming, I tell you the truth...

The church is no longer "the Church" -- "the pillar and ground of the truth" and example of righteousness in the world.

The church is no longer "the Church" -- composed of the saints who "hunger and thirst after righteousness."

The church is no longer "the Church" that keeps "the commandments of God and faith of Jesus."

Warning! If you go to your "former teachers" you shall surely see how they will seek to "quiet the awakened conscience."

If your conscience is NOT awakened at all, it is "Too late, too late."

[Gibs]

EliYH,

MOST if any in this world called "church" isn't by a long shot. What is truly the TRUE CHURCH the gates of hell will not prevail against.

Have any of the so called denominational churchs prevailed against the gates of Hell?

Any out there tell me about it if you can.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Coming_of_EliYAH]

EliYH,

MOST if any in this world called "church" isn't by a long shot. What is truly the TRUE CHURCH the gates of hell will not prevail against.

Have any of the so called denominational churchs prevailed against the gates of Hell?

Any out there tell me about it if you can.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Freeman,

You are an independent person. You cannot find the "true church" because you are not able to see her. When you are walking in all the light you have been given, then the "true church" will appear to you.

[Gibs]

EliYAH,

I am a member of the True Church, Ekklesia, "the called out ones". There is several like members around me here. Yes we follow only Christ, He alone is our Shepherd, we know His voice, it has a certain quality we know it by, The Truth. All else is sinking sand, we won't walk that way.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Coming_of_EliYAH]

EliYAH,

I am a member of the True Church, Ekklesia, "the called out ones". There is several like members around me here. Yes we follow only Christ, He alone is our Shepherd, we know His voice, it has a certain quality we know it by, The Truth. All else is sinking sand, we won't walk that way.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Freeman,

I told you the truth, but you now tell me that you are a member of the "True Church." Since you have now given a "certain sound" with your testimony, I trust the world will see the character of Christ perfectly reflected in your thoughts, your words, and your actions. I pray we shall meet on the sea of glass.

[Gibs]

It is true, the world don't recognize and see the true Church. All the world can see is it's "structures" cobbled of men. They are called denominations and each with a different mame led of men and the theology they have theorized.

We don't need theology, the truth of His Word is not to theorized. There is no theroy to it. It says what it means and means what it says.

The True Church is called out of the world and they follow the True Shepherds voice, they know His Voice well and hear none other.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Scion]

Hi Gerry,

But wasn't that the argument made at every point in the past where a re-formation WAS called for? The Jews could always say, "We have the Temple of the Lord!" (at least until fairly recently - today they can still say they are the "chosen people"). The Catholics of course make a big point of saying that Christ promised the "gates of hell" would never prevail against the Apostolic Church that formed their foundation. Sunday-keeping Protestants have been less vocal about this (having "come out from among them" themselves) but there is still sometimes a spirit of elitism against these "newbie" Churches like Adventism, Latter-day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Clearly, anyone who is not Jewish must acknowledge that there IS a time when God legitimately calls His people out of organizations that have gone beyond some boundary of grace. In fact, He spells this out for us in no uncertain terms in places like Jeremiah 18 (verses 7-11, I believe).

In all those cases, the faithful ones took part in a reformation (which is different from a "revival"), and it appeared that they were "leaving the Church." The fact of the matter is, those left behind failed to advance with the Church. New light was given, new names were assigned, etc. What I am saying is, we can never dismiss the possibility that God will continue to reform His Body as needed, and any who say, "It can never happen" would probably benefit from seeing how God has dealt with such things in the past.

[Overaged]

EliYH,

Have any of the so called denominational churchs prevailed against the gates of Hell?

Any out there tell me about it if you can.

Yes! I can tell you! It is The Seventh-day Adventist Church! Do not discount "denominations" until you know what importance God places on them.

Ezra’s example, in words and deeds, carried with it a weight of influence, for the Spirit of God was with him. . . . He diligently prepared his heart to do the work that he believed was appointed to him. He searched out the words that had been written concerning the duties of God’s denominated people, and he found a solemn pledge that God’s people had given that they would obey the words of God and the pledge of God’s blessing to the obedient. . . . {CTr 185.7}

Christ has said of His people, "Ye are the light of the world." We are the Lord's denominated people, to proclaim the truths of heavenly origin. The most solemn, sacred work ever given to mortals is the proclamation of the first, second, and third angel's messages to our world. In our large cities there should be health institutes to care for the sick, and to teach the grand principles of health reform. {CD 76.2}

Seventh-day Adventists are now to stand forth separate and distinct, a people denominated by the Lord as His own. Until they do this, He cannot be glorified in them. Truth and error cannot stand in copartnership. Let us now place ourselves where God has said that we should stand.... We are to strive for unity but not on the low level of conformity to worldly policy and union with the popular churches.--Lt 113, 1903. {2MCP 559.2}

Who are these?--God's denominated people--those who on this earth have witnessed to their loyalty. Who are they?--Those who have kept the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus; those who have owned the Crucified One as their Saviour. {OHC 345.6}

We are to invite everyone--the high and the low, the rich and the poor, all sects and classes--to share the benefits of our medical institutions. We receive into our institutions people of all denominations. But as for ourselves we are strictly denominational; we are sacredly denominated by God and are under His theocracy. {7T 109.1}

Exodus 31:12-17. {9T 17.3}

Do not these words point us out as God's denominated people? and do they not declare to us that so long as time shall last, we are to cherish the sacred, denominational distinction placed upon us? The children of Israel were to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations "for a perpetual covenant." The Sabbath has lost none of its meaning. It is still the sign between God and His people, and it will be so forever.