Is the Church Babylon?

[Aliensanctuary]

Thank you for your clarity, Cheddar.

I believe that the city called Babylon, in the future, will be the seat of God's government on Earth, but then is either attacked or otherwise overrun by evil forces, then corrupted. This city may have originated from space, that is, it may be one of the starship cities used to transport cargo from one world to another. Babylon is not its original name.

Babylon will, of course, be shot down and sunk, perhaps in the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Tyre. Those onboard must take the warning to flee Babylon seriously if they wish to avoid being killed in the disaster.

[CryTears]

Please understand...as life long "Adventist" I'm struggling big time.

My family was destroyed by several church "leaders" who did this to my son as their actions had far reaching devastation that has literally broken my heart.

I have a "gift/talent" for decorating and sewing...and I make machine embroidered "Baptismal cloths" with names, dates, fav bible verse on them...is my ministry as I try cope with having chronic pain and a very destroyed/shattered family.

I decorate dinner tables for pot lucks, functions and weddings as well...all as no cost, as is my "gift" to my church....but...I have tons of people who feel jealous and will go to just about any length to try destroy what I do.

I've prayed long and hard about giving up and just do for self! Believe me, I'd have a much nicer home, less mess if I spent that money on myself...but each and everytime I've asked God if I should just give up, I have people come up to me, telling me I've made their day/week/or whatever and that the ONLY reason they've stayed for potlucks and fellowship is because the tables look so beautiful...some folks have shared with me is the only meal they enjoyed eating because of my efforts.

But is hard for me to have a few ugly remarks by some of the church "saints" as they try to destroy the joy...say things like "Working on Sabbath!...spending too much money!...people don't care about decorations!"...and other hurtful words,

I usually don't offer any defense, but the "working on Sabbath" I asked what could I have done to prepare better as the tables get set up, food gets cooked, heated, served etc...in our fellowship thats also used as SS classes on Sabbath mornings...so I must put table cloths, runners and centerpieces on the tables AFTER SS class!

I don't see my efforts any different than their heating up food, washing pots pans, cleaning up after any different than what I do on Sabbath.

Thankfully, I have the full blessings of our pastor whose urged me to ignore these hurtful remarks and encourages me to keep on blessing my church family as God truly has given me a gift.

Not trying to brag or boast as some may think...just understand that I'm hurting physically and emotionally and having some nasty people in my church is adding to my pain and struggles...my husband teaches adult SS class, but struggles with having mouth cancer thats left him with serious speech problems.

So our plate is full!

I guess what I'm trying to convey here is our church is struggling with those who've allowed satan use them...and WHEN the shaking begins, these will be replaced with those who truly love the Lord.

This WayBent-messiah, to me represent the "Church leaders" who molested my son and ultimately destroyed my life and entire family.

My son despises anything to do with SDA church, as does my other family member who suffered under this one leader, Pathfinder leader in Angwin, Leo Morgan...he's dead, but had the churchs backing...now the truth is coming out, numerous victims coming forward, but too ashamed to go public as they saw what the conference did to my son when he tried to tell what happened to him...shame on them!

So...is my problem for despising evil men like this WayBent-messiah as he represents SDA leaders who molest and destroy lives...never mind the ones he helped...

it was GOD who helped, NOT the SDA WayBent pastor!

Yes...God can use bad leaders to reach people. I've witnessed this first hand in a Revelation Seminar pastor was beyond ugly/nasty towards me. But because of his efforts we had 10 baptisms...but 6 months later only 4 remain in the faith....and the 4 had been long time church goers, one was re baptism...so I wonder if he really did do good in our church. My pastor doesn't understand why he was so nasty towards me...I have 3 witnesses who saw the way he treated me on numerous times, they too cannot believe what they witnessed other than this may be nothing less than satan using him to try destroy me...thus end my ministry of decorating.

Right now, for 10 cents I'd like to just walk away and stop decorating and use the money on my own needs!

Maybe I shouldn't post this, but for some reason I feel I must...perhaps just seeking support and prayer, understanding as satan has used so many to try destroy me.

There's a lot more to this saga than I can write here on open forum...but has to do with our closing down an orphanage 1983 in Tecate Mexico, we turned in a group of pedophiles and stopped them from bringing more harm to these children.

Shortly after this is when we began suffering horrible tragedies, one after another.

Was/is like we've had a demonic curse placed on us...

why would a 36 yr old non smoker get tongue cancer? and my immune system fall apart, head on collision, and tons of other bad things happening to us...people look at us and think "What in the world!?!?"

And don't blame our diet as we've tried hard to follow dietary principles given us, basically plant based diet...Weimar for years prior to this...but my husbands mother kept warning me I was killing her son, before this cancer...that he was raised eating meat 3 times day and this diet I forced on him...hmmmm she's wrong! HE chose this more so than me because of his having a 6 month bout with ulcerative colitis.

A dr from Weirmar helped us and within 24 hours my husband began healing after months of medical doctors drugs proved total failures.

But my mother-in law blamed his cancer on me and the stress of his raising those horrible children I adopted along with my son I had when I was 17 yrs old...was after our home destroyed by flood in Loma Linda and my folks turned me out onto the streets to fend for myself. My religious fanatic SDA mother told me was God punishing my family for my having satanic poster in my room...was a poster with whimsical flower with word "Groovy" written across.

Imagine the rejection I felt being turned away by ones own mom and dad (he hated, despised and beat me often)...and then rejected by my school..LLA.

I was always in trouble for smelling liike Cig smoke...my dad smoked! but my classmates complained of the way I smelled. I was failing every class, D's and F's.

For gosh sakes...I went to 14 different schools in 11 grades! what could they expect?!

But too many things to call coincidences as its one ugly trial after another!...has been non stop since 1984.

But all the teachers and principle did was shame me in front of everyone.

Is a wonder I'm still in the faith...but I know is satan using others to bring harm to those who try to serve and Love the Lord!

[Gibs]

CryTears,

You are being tried very hard. Christ in you is your only hope. Christ in you and Satan and his are defeated foes. They can see His indwelling.

Never, never give up of being totally Christ's and ask Him continually to free you from all these attacks. Job was tried sorely too but in the end he came out blessed in abundance.

Just make sure you are fully surrendered in all things to do fully His will, your will being His will and He will dwell within.

You will be victorious, don't ever give up, our Divine Shepherd is faithful and loves each of us and you dearly.

I pray His Blessing and protection to you.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[teresaq]

I am sorry for your pain. I wish I could say what happened to you and your family was rare.

[Gail]

Dear CryTears,

I weep as I read your account of your memories! (((( CryTears ))))

Do not be disheartened over people who want to rob you of the joy you get for serving others. If one door is closed, take your ministry to others, even outside the church if need be.

I cannot help your past, but I am thankful that you trusted us enough to share it with us.

I hope you can find friends here! :)

[Woody]

Dear CryTears,

I weep as I read your account of your memories! (((( CryTears ))))

Do not be disheartened over people who want to rob you of the joy you get for serving others. If one door is closed, take your ministry to others, even outside the church if need be.

I cannot help your past, but I am thankful that you trusted us enough to share it with us.

I hope you can find friends here!

[JoeMo]

Dear CryTears,

I'm so sorry for your pain! Our oldest son was also molested by a church leader - an SDA teacher that he adored (until he was molested). When we reported it to the local conference, we, too were almost drummed out of the church. Unfortunately, that teacher left town and went on to teach at other SDA schools. It's not just the Catholic Church that covers this stuff up. My son is dead now. It's one thing to have a child leave the church. It's a whole different matter to have your oldest child die. That was over 10 years ago; and we still have not fully recovered from the grief (we probably never will).

Over the years though, I have learned some things about God. Where a denomination may fail you, God never does. I would literally scream and curse at God in the heighth of my grief; and the only answer I ever got back from God was love and comfort. That is when I truly believe I started "hearing" His voice. As time passed and other trials would come up (e.g., parents dying, several bouts with cancer, etc.), God was always there. He has shown Himself true every time. That doesn't mean that trials are "easy"; God's Word tells us:

"No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it." (1 Cor. 10:13)

He doesn't shield us from bad things, but He promises to give us the strength to endure. Also, God never sends us disease or disaster to "bring us to our senses" Since He is our Father, hurting us to teach us a lesson is equivalent to child abuse!

"do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?" (Rom. 2:4)

It is God's kindness that turns us towards Him, not His wrath! He wants us to turn to Him out of love, not fear or despair.

I pray for you and your husband; and wish you the best. Do not let a church force you into bitterness and despair. If necessary for the sake of self-preservation, leave that church and find another that demonstrates the love and grace of God. He will never leave you or foresake you. (Deut. 31:6-8, Joshua 1:5, 1 Kings 8:57, Heb.13:5)

May the peace and blessing of God continually wash over you like a waterfall!

[Gail]

To JoeMo:

I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your child. I just cannot imagine what it is like to go through that. We lost a grandchild recently and the shock of that was almost too much.

[teresaq]

I very much appreciate you both speaking up. I know of other stories with similar results.

The sad lesson is that we can not trust in any church, not even the SDA.org, as some have so designated it, but only in God, which makes me appreciate also the testimony for Him, in spite of the horrible things done by those who profess His name, and belong to His remnant church.

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

2 Corinthians 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

Hebrews 13:5 for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

May God bless you both and continue to ravish you with His love and Presence.

[JoeMo]

Thanks for your kind words of comfort. God has sent His own kind of comfort. My youngest daughter had an awesome and vivid dream a while back - not really a dream, more like a vision. Our church was "soaking" in God's presence during a time of soft music and meditation after worship one Sabbath. As she was sitting there, the music faded away; and suddenly she was in heaven waiting in line to receive her crown from Jesus. Billions of angels and saints were cheering wildly for those receiving their crowns. When Jesus put the crown on my daughter's head, one voice in the crowd stood out to her; so she turned to look. There was my son, already wearing His crown and cheering wildly for his little sister. Could this have been a sign from Jesus that my son is saved? I'd like to think so; and it gives me and my wife great comfort!

[JoeMo]

I am sorry for your loss, too, Gail. I've said it before - I have never seen a harsh post from you in any thread. God has blessed you with a tender and compassionate heart for Him and for His children. You are a constant channel of His blessings to all on this forum. Bless you!

[Overaged]

I am sorry for your loss, too, Gail. I've said it before - I have never seen a harsh post from you in any thread. God has blessed you with a tender and compassionate heart for Him and for His children. You are a constant channel of His blessings to all on this forum. Bless you!

[phkrause]

I also would like to add this:

Quote:

BY EGW

“The church has taken the world into her fellowship, and has given her affections to the enemies of holiness. The church and the world are standing on the same ground in transgression of the law of God. The church prefers to assimilate to the world rather than separate from its customs and vanities.” Manuscript 44, p. 19. 1900.

What is this telling us?

___________________

Bro.Peter

What Church is she talking about here? Would be my question? I don't think she's talking about the SDA church at all here!

[phkrause]

Quote:

By EGW

God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. {UL 315.5}

Where two or three are present who love and obey the commandments of God, Jesus there presides, let it be in the desolate place of the earth, in the wilderness, in the city enclosed in prison walls. The glory of God has penetrated the prison walls, flooding with glorious beams of heavenly light the darkest dungeon. His saints may suffer, but their sufferings will, like the apostles of old, spread their faith and win souls to Christ and glorify His holy name. The bitterest opposition expressed by those who hate God's great moral standard of righteousness should not and will not shake the steadfast soul who trusts fully in God. . . . {UL 315.6}

The truth shall set you free.

_______________________________

Bro Peter

It is not the great cathedral

And here's your answer, plain and simple.

[Stan]

I am sorry for your loss, too, Gail. I've said it before - I have never seen a harsh post from you in any thread. God has blessed you with a tender and compassionate heart for Him and for His children. You are a constant channel of His blessings to all on this forum. Bless you!

Gail is such a gift to this forum, I think God for her and her talents.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: JoeMo

I am sorry for your loss, too, Gail. I've said it before - I have never seen a harsh post from you in any thread. God has blessed you with a tender and compassionate heart for Him and for His children. You are a constant channel of His blessings to all on this forum. Bless you!

Gail is such a gift to this forum, I think God for her and her talents.

[Overaged]

[Jeremiah 33:3]

Please tell me more about the "trademark certificate"...

The fearful results of enforcing the ["religious"] observances [see the trademark certificate] of the church by civil authority,

Thank you kindly,

Berean

[Jeremiah 33:3]

Dear JoeMo,

I am praying for you that God will comfort you. Here is a couple of quotes that have meant a lot to me, and hopefully they will help to comfort you:

"He that said, “Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not,” will listen to our prayers for them, and the seal, or mark, of believing parents will cover their children, if they are trained up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." RH September 19, 1854, par. 13

for I will contend with him who contends with you, and I will save your children. Isaiah 49:25

With joy unutterable, parents see the crown, the robe, the harp, given to their children...The seed sown with tears and prayers may have seemed to be sown in vain, but their harvest is reaped with joy at last. Their children have been redeemed. --Child Guidance, p569.

When Satan casts his hellish shadow athwart my pathway, I do not look at it or talk of it and glorify the devil by talking of him and his power and what a hard time I am having. No, I cleave right through the shadow, and by faith take hold of Jesus Christ. By beholding we "are changed into the same image from glory to glory." Talk faith. Every doubt you express is a seed sown, and that seed will take root in some heart. We do not want to speak one word of doubt and thus praise the devil for his wonderful power to keep you in subjection. No, Christ has purchased me and redeemed me. Satan has no power over me.-- MS 16, 1894. {2MCP 675.1}

May God surround you and fill you with His Divine Presence and Power through His Son.

“The impartation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ.” DA 80

“Christ gives them the breath of His own Spirit, the life of His own life.” MH 159

“We adore God for His wonderous love in giving us Jesus the Comforter” SD 124

"The Saviour is our Comforter” 8 MR 49

“There is no Comforter like Christ” RH OCT 26, 1897

“He (Christ) is the comforter” RH JAN 27, 1903

“The Saviour is our Comforter. This I have proved Him to be.” 19 MR 293

"Christ tells us that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, and the Comforter is the Holy Ghost, "the Spirit of truth, which the Father shall send in My name." "I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him, for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you" [John 14:16, 17]. This refers to the omnipresence of the Spirit of Christ, called the Comforter. Again Jesus says, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth is come, He will guide you into all truth" [John 16:12, 13]. {14MR 179.2

“I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you” (John 14:18). The divine Spirit that the world’s Redeemer promised to send is the presence and power of God. He will not leave His people in the world destitute of His grace, to be buffeted by the enemy of God, and harassed by the oppression of the world; but He will come to them.—The Signs of the Times, November 23, 1891. Ye Shall Receive Power, p. 39.5

"The Holy Spirit is the vital PRESENCE of God." --{Ye Shall Receive Power, p. 284.2 and http://www.whiteestate.org/message/ask-part1.asp}

God and His Son's PRESENCE AND POWER will be with you - to comfort you.

If there is anything I can do for you, please, please let me know.

[teresaq]

Awesome quotes! I was blessed.