Does our "religious liberties" message apply to gays?

[Parade Orange]

when i share a bit of myself here i am making a dozen points and it seems most peeps see one or two points

i am sharing what ive been thru

i am sharing common experiences among homos in or out of the christian institutions

i am sharing ....

HATE FILLED LOATHING REPULSED HORRIFIED GRACELESS INSECURed PROUD SELF APPOINTED RAGING TYRANICAL IMMATURE CORRUPT GODLESS AVOIDANT COMBATIVE GLEEFULLY-CONDEMING experiences

i have had with people thru the years since 1975

on this board

in my sanctuary

sabbath scholl classrooms

at visiting other churches

potluck dinners

in politics

school

playground

bus stops

bars

from tv podiums

camping sites

city hall

truck stops

gas stations

friendly and unfriendly neighborhoods

sporting events

movies,sitcoms,commericials, magazines

internet and blogs

family get togethers

cocktail parties

and from

religious pundits

and

from non believers

and

drug/

shopping/

gambling/

sex/

tv/

internet/

booze/

work/

self absorbed addicts

as well as

fornicators

idol worshippers

adulterers

spititual,mental physical,sexual, authoriety abusers

theifs

liars

co dependant

boastful

unforgivinbg

ungrateful

murdering

negligent

character-assinators

and many well meaning friends and ministers,teachers,counselors and 12 step meetings and parents of friends

all these people that ive had the pleasure of meeting personally tell me GAYS are horrible and repulsive to them

of course the people reading this post are excluded

it all adds up to ONE THING

gays are less than

gays dont deserve choices

gays should shut up

gays should quietly crawl back into the dark closet

or if u go by the things i heard ceaselesly in church fellowship conversation or overheard at non church social gripings when the topic of homos came up back in the 70's 80' and 90's

...at least be shipped to an island so they can give each other AIDS and cant repopulate then the gay nation will die!

and we wont see gays anymore! hoooo yay

and BTW the SDA minister's wife of my old fashioned loving rural church told my mom when i was 13

'GAYS SHOULD ALL BE LINED UP AND SHOT!'

so in that frabic of context that i had to spell out for u is what gays have been experiencing since i was a gay kid in our fair country

[Gail]

Things have the potential to change when it is YOUR son or daughter that comes out.

((( Parade Orange )))

It sounds like the way, the truth and the life has not been made very attractive, and that is sad, indeed.

Somehow what is coming to my brain is, How do we have the mind of Christ in this situation?

[Gerr]

Biblically, any state that supports homosexuality and promotes it receives Gods wrath.

Since when does a state stop being answerable to God?

Can we as Christians say that once a "government" is formed, God has no right to judge that state?

As God does not condone state sponsored homosexuality, why should we argue that the state should have the right to do so?

[Dr. Shane]

I think the discussion has gone off track. This is about whether homosexuals have the same civil rights as heterosexuals?

Yes. Gays have the same rights.

I am a man. I have the right to marry a woman.

Every man has the right to marry a woman. Even gay men have the right to marry a woman.

I do not have the right to marry another man. No man (gay or straight) in the state of Texas, has the right to marry another man.

Gays and straights have the exact same civil rights. No difference.

What gays are asking for are *special* rights.

[Dr. Shane]

I guess I've been misinformed all these years, about gay unions! Had heard quite a few years ago that gays have a better rate for staying together than heteros did!

I have never seen any study that showed that. Gay unions have been shown to be shorter and involve more infidelity. There are some have followed the heterosexual model but the studies I have seen have shown those to be in the minority.

[Dr. Shane]

it all adds up to ONE THING

gays are less than

gays dont deserve choices

gays should shut up

gays should quietly crawl back into the dark closet

I think gays, like alcoholics, like to make themselves appear to be victims. The average gay person has a higher level of education and earns more money than the average American. They are not denied civil rights like voting, gun ownership, freedom of assembly, right to own private property, etc. I think it is a very hard case to say that gays are an oppressed minority like women or racial minorities have been in the past and to a certain extent still are today.

[Parade Orange]

the whole point SHANE is gays wont be victims anymore

[Parade Orange]

and it went over your head what i have shared.. my experiences as a human being in our fair country

and what many other gays have gone thru as well

u think its about rights?

u think i was talking about laws?

u think i was talking about civil or criminal or religious rights?

im talking about people relating to people!

you dont get it

[phkrause]

I have never seen any study that showed that. Gay unions have been shown to be shorter and involve more infidelity. There are some have followed the heterosexual model but the studies I have seen have shown those to be in the minority.

Thanks for the info. Like I mentioned, and its been quite a number of years ago, not sure where I read that but had always thought that to be the case. Personally I'd always thought that that was not the case.

[bonnie]

and it went over your head what i have shared.. my experiences as a human being in our fair country

and what many other gays have gone thru as well

u think its about rights?

u think i was talking about laws?

u think i was talking about civil or criminal or religious rights?

im talking about people relating to people!

you dont get it

The home improvement center where I worked had several gay and lesbian employees. The religious persuasion of the employees were varied.Some very conservative.

The gays and lesbians were generally well liked and treated with respect and consideration.They received promotions and bonus at the same level straight employee's did

No one really cared one way or another

The few that were not brought the problems on themselves.Their sexual orientation was a "in your face" topic.Never letting anyone forget that they were gay and felt to be victims.It got to be very tiresome

[Parade Orange]

i share what i went thru and its turned around to me acting like a victim?

i hope thats not what u few folks are intending here

i WAS a victim and like a good victim i crawled into a corner and whimpered and felt sorry for myself and wanted to die but then i realize THEY ARE WRONG TO BE LIKE THAT TO me the BIBLE says GOD LOVES ME regardless what christians are spouting to me and I became angry and unforgiving and that got nowhere fast cause GOD LOVES THOSE BIBLE THUMPING HATERS TOO! wow! we all see thru the glass darkly! we dont see each other in the LIGHT OF THE CROSS

we all are equal in HIS SIGHT!

we all need HIM!

GOD has and is teaching me to not to only forgive well meaning ignorant graceless people i have bumped into thru the years

[no one here like that i trust]

but to carry the SPIRIT OF FORGIVENESS everytime i step out my door

i was subjected to all the things i mentioned im my previous long drawn out post

and have been informed by my gay peers non christian and christian alike common experiences -thats what i was sharing

it wasnt to be felt sorry for or get a 'poor baby,there there'

it was to tell other christians something they possibly never thought about before

hopefully get a glimpse of walking in their shoes or 6 inch spikes!

and after all my one finger typing and peculiar sense of humour and dramatics i hEAR from a few foul hearers..

GAYS WANT TO BE VICTIMS!

no no sweethearts

CARRY EACH OTHERS BURDENS

THINK MORE HIGHLY OF EACH OTHER

LOVE ONE ANOTHER

ENCOURAGE ONE ANOTHER

i was giving you that opportunity!

well anyhoo..

they are demading thru the american process equal special extraterestial out of this world vivid lavender rights cause they are entitled as humans regardless of faults,frailities,bad health,lousy statistics and questionable tactics and history just like the hetero counterparts

they are survors not victims

hence the parades polls voting climbing the political ladder magazines culture wars organizations media onslaught and judicial process

it screams .. SURVIVER

and for christians looking for a way to take anything from their pain or history and spinning it into 'what u have been thru means nothing to us and stop playing VICTIM' is pure evil and violates THE 10/2 COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE

[Parade Orange]

and bonnie about gay cry babies at your work.....

there are cry babies everywhere that dont take responsibilty for themselves !

i will spell it out

whether they are gay black white straight man woman child democrates republican american canadian in all classes in all incomes in all churches

and u may be a lil tired of all that too

[Dr. Shane]

Homosexuality is a disorder. One of the symptoms is the victim mentality. This is also true of for alcoholics and some other disorders.

Now some gays have been victimized. That is undeniable. Many gays have been beat up and even killed because of their sexuality. Most certainly that is victimization. That is clearly wrong. However the victim mentality goes far beyond acts of violence.

Just becomes someone with religious convictions condemns the homosexual lifestyle does not make homosexuals victims nor the religious person a perpetrator. Alcoholics and homosexuals tend to be super sensitive people that are easily offended... and that is not a character asset. It is part of the disorder they struggle with.

[bonnie]

and bonnie about gay cry babies at your work.....

there are cry babies everywhere that dont take responsibilty for themselves !

i will spell it out

whether they are gay black white straight man woman child democrates republican american canadian in all classes in all incomes in all churches

and u may be a lil tired of all that too

i will spell it out.......

This has absolutely nothing to do with black white straight man woman child democrates republican american canadian in all classes in all incomes in all churches.

It is about your complaint or statements gays should have the right to marriage as any straight couple and accusing others of persecuting.

It is more about wanting to have a gay lifestyle viewed as normal,it is not. No one should be abused because that is the life they have chosen to lead,but neither does the gay community have a "right" to expect their lifestyle to be viewed only as a alternative.

There is legal recourse to protect a partner,no law against them living together,nothing to stop them from having a "marriage" ceremony performed by gay pastors as some will.

Concerning those I worked with,the only ones that were not accepted were the ones that were in your face at everything that was said.

[ClubV12]

Did ya hear about the Southern Baptist web site being hacked and then making false claims they support gay marriage? Quite a complex hoax involving email alerts to various news organizations. Southern Baptist's DO NOT support gay marriage, and somebody is making sure they pay the price for that position. Through the usual methods when you oppose the gay movement, intimidation, threats, political movements, demonstrations and an in your face attitude.

I have little patience left for this so called "movement". Gays aren't victims, their bullies.

http://radio.foxnews.com/2011/06/28/southern-baptists-face-online-attack/

[skyblue888]

i will spell it out.......

This has absolutely nothing to do with black white straight man woman child democrates republican american canadian in all classes in all incomes in all churches.

It is about your complaint or statements gays should have the right to marriage as any straight couple and accusing others of persecuting.

It is more about wanting to have a gay lifestyle viewed as normal,it is not. No one should be abused because that is the life they have chosen to lead,but neither does the gay community have a "right" to expect their lifestyle to be viewed only as a alternative.

There is legal recourse to protect a partner,no law against them living together,nothing to stop them from having a "marriage" ceremony performed by gay pastors as some will.

Concerning those I worked with,the only ones that were not accepted were the ones that were in your face at everything that was said.

Bonnie

__________________

Well said Bonnie.

sky

[Parade Orange]

i will spell it out

its not about agreeing with gays

its not about not voting your conscience

its not about cozing up to a known homosexual

its not about taking the scripturual mandates seriously

its not even about you liking gays

its about seeing them as humans worthy of GOD'S love and respecting their own choices in how they want to live in our free society

i am full of understanding how people cannot give to others what they themselves dont have

[Parade Orange]

perhaps in the future i will share more of myself in the future regarding this issue that is close to my heart

and BONNIE i agree with most things u have said but not all of it

so we are in disagreement in some points

[ClubV12]

"...its about seeing them as humans worthy of GOD'S love and respecting their own choices in how they want to live in our free society."

I don't think any christian has a problem with the first part, sincerely I don't. The second part is more problematic. In our society not "everything goes" and it's NOT OK to "do your own thing" however you see fit because of some "freedom clause". What one considers "freedom", may well be trampling on what others see as "freedom". Which is why our society is based on a Republic, a Republic is run by the rule of law. Not mob rule, not majority rule, not rule by the strongest, but by existing law, applied equally to rich and poor, gay and straight.

If you want the law changed your "freedom" to do so is limited by exisiting law. Which gives no man the right to trample on another man's freedom of expression. To those who would like to change the law on gay marriage, I respect that effort, carried out within the law. I also oppose such a change, and will, within the law, seek to stop such a change from coming about.

I can still be a loving christian while strongly opposing anothers view point. Not a problem!

[Parade Orange]

"I can still be a loving christian while strongly opposing anothers view point. Not a problem!"

CLUBV12^

amen me too!

i believe most here understand that!

we all disagree on stuff

we are all different as our fingerprints

yet hopefully most of us have experienced JESUS AS SAVIOUR and LORD

and share the BIBLE as our guide in out conduct and understanding

in my post # 457058 i mostly speak of my experiences as a closeted homosexual and out or outed engaging in mostly christian circles of men and women thru the years in different social settings in different cities and towns

when the hair falls down and people feel more comfortable and at ease to talk freely about how they really feel about certain matters and certain people they speak whats in their heart when u smile and nod and dont disagree with them

off the cuff remarks,

declarations,

candid moments,

coversations,

jokes,

condemnations,

insults,

diatribes,

criticisms,

pontifications,

blatherings,

evaluations,

rages,

blastings,

sideswipes,

ancedotes,

rebukes,

confessions, and whatnot!

pointing to a disdain,repulsed,horrified,fear,and/or abject hatred and confusion of homosexuals

and i listened as a child to all of the people

and i listened as a young adult

and i listened as an older adult

and i now listen as a older middle aged man what people truly

think about homosexuals

and hence the post #457058!

which went over bonnies and shanes head going by what they clinged to and addressed back to me

BTW i hope they will reread my posts and hopefully mirror back to me what i was trying to spell out

but simply maybe thats just how they roll and i dont think there is anything i else i can say about the matter to them but i will still freely share with others

for many its about winning the argument and not winning the soul

[bonnie]

i will spell it out

its not about agreeing with gays

its not about not voting your conscience

its not about cozing up to a known homosexual

its not about taking the scripturual mandates seriously

its not even about you liking gays

its about seeing them as humans worthy of GOD'S love and respecting their own choices in how they want to live in our free society

i am full of understanding how people cannot give to others what they themselves dont have

It is about the demand for all to see the gay lifestyle as simply another alternative to straight marriage. It is not.

It is not about seeing them as human.

They can live as they choose. With the exception of marriage in the traditional sense.I can't marry two men either

It is not about being homophobic. It is about the fact that the accusations fly when someone is opposed to the demands of the gay community. This is exactly what this is about.......

i will spell it out

its not about agreeing with gays

[Dr. Shane]

and i listened as a child to all of the people

and i listened as a young adult

and i listened as an older adult

and i now listen as a older middle aged man what people truly

think about homosexuals

I got that. I also understand the hypersensitivity of homosexuals because being an alcoholic I suffer from the same hypersensitivity. We hear things and are easily offended. We have very thin skin.

The truth is that it really doesn't matter what others *think* about us until it impacts how they, as society, treat us. Are homosexuals denied an education? Are homosexuals denied the right to vote? To bear arms? Privacy? Right of assembly? Freedom of speech? If our rights are not being violated, it really isn't a big deal.

We have to get out of the victim mentality for our own sake. It is not healthy to see oneself as a victim all of the time. There are good, upstanding members of society that hold religious views against homosexuals. Gays, just like the religious folks, have to learn how to agree to disagree and treat each other with mutual respect. A sincere man clinging to his religious beliefs does not make a gay man into a victim.

[Dr. Shane]

oh dear the gays coming into our country by the boatloads!

One needs to understand how legal immigration works. There are quotas established for each country. A specified number of legal immigrants are allowed in each year from each country. There is a process to come here. When a man falls in love with a foreign national he is allowed to bring her to this country and marry her. However she is counted against the quota. So the foreign bride being allowed to come means someone else from her country who has applied and is in the process must wait longer or be denied. The reason these foreign brides (or grooms) are given priority is because we have found that families make good societies. Someone with family here, or someone waiting to marry them, is thus given priority.

So the question than becomes, if gay marriage becomes recognized by the federal government and gays can bring in foreign nationals, how will that change the dynamic? More foreign gays coming in will mean less of other foreigners coming in. That is how quotas work. Since gay marriages don't last as long, gays may bring in multiple gay foreign nationals over their life time and thus further reduce the number of other nationals allowed to come here. Instead of giving priority to families, as the US has done for decades, priority will shift to gays. That will represent a big shift in immigration policy. That is what the gay movement is really after. Gay marriage leading to "immigration equality" will eventually turn the US into a gay nation much like San Francisco is today. Is that where we as a society want to go? Myself, I think that is a fulfillment of prophecy and I think it will happen.

[shelly]

How do we know how long gay marriages last-they aren't allowed to marry in the majority of states in the US. Besides, the majority of heterosexual marriages do not last either.

[Parade Orange]

gays should have the right to marry and divorce and marry and divorce but not to exceed the number of heterosexual counterparts marriages