Dr. Shane Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 The actual Adventist RL department condemns homosexuality in all of its forms. Gay marriage isn't a civil rights issue. Historically, no one has been allowed to marry someone else of the same sex. It is not as if there was one class in society that was allowed to marry someone of the same sex and another class of society that was denied that right. The right to marry someone of the same sex has not existed in US history. So no one has been denied any civil rights. The debate over gay marriage is to decide if we, as a society, want to create new right. That would be the right to marry someone of the same sex. The issue of religious liberty comes into play because this "new right" of gay marriage could conflict with others' religious liberty. Forcing a Catholic adoption agency to place children with gay couples is one example. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Parade Orange WHY MUST YOU TELL EVERYONE YOUR GAY? From the light given to me on this subject, I will make a brief comment of about 1000 pages. Now seriously God created us as sexual beings Our sexuality is a gift from God that He pronounced GOOD Read all about it in the Garden of Eden account That being TRUE, Satan has worked to refocus our attention from God's design to a counterfeit that seems as good For some that is a different virgin every week or a concubine that meets the physical wants but one who can be cast off at any time without having to pay for a divorce For others it is a companion endowed with the the ability to relieve the urge. The physical expression of sexual desires outside of God's plan is detrimental It destroys the mechanism God endowed us with to have self control plain and simple How so? When a man who by nature is easily aroused is sexually involved with another man who is also by nature easily aroused, they will tend to focus too much on the physical to the harm of the spiritual. The animal passions whether in a heterosexual or gay relationship unrestrained will be the ruin of the individuals. Would living out of God's plan in moderation make it ok? No. When mankind devises a way to live outside of God's will, it exalts human opinion to a level equal to that or above that of God. Man's feelings, desires, wants, and opinions become as valid to the man as a thus saith the LORD. Thus man makes an idol of his opinions that are not subject to the law of God and cannot be. Should anyone treat gay people or people living in sin with a woman or women bad because they are sinners? No. Jesus came to save sinners. If God can save prostitutes in His kingdom and the self righteous do-gooders are cast out, there is hope for those that are plagued with temptations to indulge unrestrained desires. The end results: Call him a gay Christian or what ever, but God will leave him (or her) to the idols of their choosing. God is not a respecter of persons and he will not compel anyone to live as he has deemed best. Free moral agents have the ability to choose to walk in the path that God has clearly established or they can blaze the path of their own choosing. But when God gathers His children, He is looking for the obedient ones that will not cause rebellion against His authority to arise in the universe again. These individuals are not slaves to passion, they have learned to yield to Jesus and to regain self-control through the ministry of the Holy Spirit living within them, It is such a simple test. Learn to express our sexuality in moderation within the framework designed by God or prove that God is not perfect and we can do better. Then wait and see who wins: God or man. AMEN Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 While this was interesting, the simple truth is that God gave to mankind the sexual urge because man was mortal and was going to die. Even from the beginning, humans are and were always mortal. They had to create from themselves to populate the earth. God gave the true orgasm and urge for a woman and man only, as in the likeness of both the Father and the Holy Spirit as the 'Mother'. Satan twisted all of this and every kind of deveated sexual behavour comes from Satan's mind. He was taken this 'pleasure' to all extreems as he did with the real truth that Jesus Christ came to this earth to testify to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 10, 2011 Members Share Posted July 10, 2011 While this was interesting, the simple truth is that God gave to mankind the sexual urge because man was mortal and was going to die. Even from the beginning, humans are and were always mortal. They had to create from themselves to populate the earth. God gave the true orgasm and urge for a woman and man only, as in the likeness of both the Father and the Holy Spirit as the 'Mother'. Satan twisted all of this and every kind of deveated sexual behavour comes from Satan's mind. He was taken this 'pleasure' to all extreems as he did with the real truth that Jesus Christ came to this earth to testify to do. Dr. Rich if man had not sinned they would've lived forever. Mortal or not. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Only the TRINITY is IMMORTAL GOD grants LIFe EVERLASTING to the FAITHFUL in all of creation Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 PK, true, but only because they could eat of the tree of life. Take that away and they would then die as all who are mortal. There is a big difference between Spiritual beings and Human beings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 amen God doesnt give life evermore to a created being HE created a fruit that perpetuates it in the created body i remember some where that ellen white goes to heaven and picks a rose and exclaimes IT WILL NEVER FADE! maybe life without conscience gets a special compensation hmmm Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 PK, true, but only because they could eat of the tree of life. Take that away and they would then die as all who are mortal. There is a big difference between Spiritual beings and Human beings. I can agree with you there. That's why I mentioned "mortal or not" at the end of the post. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 amenGod doesnt give life evermore to a created being HE created a fruit that perpetuates it in the created body i remember some where that ellen white goes to heaven and picks a rose and exclaimes IT WILL NEVER FADE! maybe life without conscience gets a special compensation hmmm I can agree with you up to a certain point PO. Angels are created beings also, are they not immortal? Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 i beleive the angels depend on the tree of LIFE in heaven i think a refrence by egw is made that satan was cast out of satan and has no access to the fruit anymore he is living cause he ate so much of it way back then the bible says GOD alone has immortality 1 TIMOTHY 6:16 Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 11, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 11, 2011 Aren't we glad that Satan and the evil angels were never made immortal?!! God was too wise to do that for beings who would rebel. I think the EGW statement you're referring to is in Vol. 1 of Spirit of Prophecy. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 thanku JOHN317 Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Aren't we glad that Satan and the evil angels were never made immortal?!! God was too wise to do that for beings who would rebel. I think the EGW statement you're referring to is in Vol. 1 of Spirit of Prophecy. What page would that be? Also do you think that the angels had access to the tree also? The more I think about it, I guess this would also be true than. Never really thought about it, until Dr. Rich brought that up. Interesting either way. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 11, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 11, 2011 Let me do a little research. (Eating right now. lol) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted July 11, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 11, 2011 Let me do a little research. (Eating right now. lol) Researching the tostadas right now, are you? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: John317 Let me do a little research. (Eating right now. lol) Researching the tostadas right now, are you? Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I really, really, like your thoughts, tho you may consider me right in there with "If I May" thoughts you expressed. I think I am coming to care more about how an individual treats another than I am with what they claim to believe. I believe truth is truth, of course as I understand it to be truth at the moment, but put me on a desert island with the pagan, muslim, witch, gay, what-have-you, that honestly desires to treat others right, than with self-proclaimed "christians" who I agree with theologically. Those people would be the first ones to throw me to the sharks if I wasn't careful to word everything just the way that sounds right to them...some scary, scary people I have to tell you...very scary. I often think if I lived close by them, come the Sunday law they would be pointing those fingers right at me and screaming just like they do here, she's not keeping Sunday, do something about it ____________...some scary people yes indeed... Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 As some of you know, New York has just passed legislation approving of gay marriage. They will now have the same civil liberties that heterosexuals have pertaining to marriage. Note: religious institutions are protected from lawsuits if they refuse to marry them or provide them with access to their infrastructures. As the PARL(Public Affairs and Religious Liberties) director in my church, I am supporting this as a civil rights issue. I do not condone homosexual acts and by supporting this issue am separating the need for abiding by our 1st Amendment rights of separation of church and state. Yet I'm being condemned by many as being a supporter of homosexuality by my support for this legislation. I feel that just as God gave all of us free will, homosexuals can choose their actions freely without the need for me to condemn them. Let God be their judge. I simply feel that their civil rights must be protected even if they are "living in sin". BTW, so are we. If my memory serves me correctly, the Adventist church has supported issues in the past that were clearly condemned from a Biblical standpoint but we stood by our 1st Amendment understanding on these issues e.g. beliefs and practices of other religions. We preach religious freedom here and all over the world. Why is it then, that we are selective in our promulgation of these freedoms specifically when homosexuals are involved? Alex And you are surprised? May I ask why? I mean if one has been on SDA boards long enough, and it may also apply to "christian" boards in general, hasn't a pretty clear picture come through? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 5, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 5, 2011 Also do you think that the angels had access to the tree also? The more I think about it, I guess this would also be true than. Ellen White wrote that God sent guardian angels to also keep the fallen angels away from the Tree of Life. Have you ever read that before, pk? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 As some of you know, New York has just passed legislation approving of gay marriage. They will now have the same civil liberties that heterosexuals have pertaining to marriage. Note: religious institutions are protected from lawsuits if they refuse to marry them or provide them with access to their infrastructures. The only religious liberty issue here - is the liberty of the church NOT to be forced by the state to hire or retain gays, or prostitutes, or drunks etc. Any behavior found to be contrary to the Word of God - condemned by the church, that disqualifies a person from holding office or leadership in the church should not be "mandated by the state" such that the church is hamstrung in its efforts to pursue its understanding of proper behavior for Christians. Neither should the church be forced to promote special civil incentives for such anti-Bible behaviors. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: pkrause Also do you think that the angels had access to the tree also? The more I think about it, I guess this would also be true than. Ellen White wrote that God sent guardian angels to also keep the fallen angels away from the Tree of knowledge. Have you ever read that before, pk? Did you mean "tree of life" or knowledge? Seems like they had access to the tree of knowledge. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 5, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 5, 2011 LOL. Yes, thanks for correcting me, Bob. I meant the Tree of Life, of course. Naturally, they don't want to die. lol The evil angels will die without the Tree of Knowledge. I will change that. Thanks again!! :-) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 The only religious liberty issue here - is the liberty of the church NOT to be forced by the state to hire or retain gays, or prostitutes, or drunks etc. Any behavior found to be contrary to the Word of God - condemned by the church, that disqualifies a person from holding office or leadership in the church should not be "mandated by the state" such that the church is hamstrung in its efforts to pursue its understanding of proper behavior for Christians. Neither should the church be forced to promote special civil incentives for such anti-Bible behaviors. Not so fast, Bob. Religious liberties in this arena may be granted to official church organizations but it will not be granted to individual Christians whose convictions on what constitutes right and wrong behavior guide their everyday lives. Private businesses will be now be government regulated, tax dollars demanded from Christian taxpayers will be employed to indoctrinate their children in the moral equity of that practice which the Bible condemns, and both churches and individual consciencious objectors will become socially ostracized by official state policies which will criminalize any public dissent as hate speech. Potential politicians will be made subject to a defacto religious litmus test to determine whether or not they would support the "constitutional right" of same sex-marriage. It is possible that even church tax exemptions will be removed from those religious organizations which persist in their historic "discriminatory" practices. The past decade with it's embrace of an officially recognized moral buffet (excepting the traditional Christian menu) has already seen, accompanying it's seemingly innocuous compromises,the institution of most if not all of the above concerns. With the officially accepted violation of church/state a now non-issue thru the governmental mandate of teaching the evolution of mankind, there remains no intellectual or moral reason for the government to tolerate the continuing evil of Christianity if Christianity's moral teachings continue to undermine the state's right to demand public approval of sexual diversity. This is not an intellectual jousting match this is serious stuff that the Devil is trying to pass off as a "don't worry baby" issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted September 5, 2011 Members Share Posted September 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: pkrause Also do you think that the angels had access to the tree also? The more I think about it, I guess this would also be true than. Ellen White wrote that God sent guardian angels to also keep the fallen angels away from the Tree of Life. Have you ever read that before, pk? Actually that does sound familiar, but I don't recall reading that myself. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 5, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 5, 2011 I will do my best to find the quote. I know I read it sometime last year. I'll post it here when I find it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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