Gordon1 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Those who love to taunt, push buttons, mock, ridicule, fuel debate are out of order. The more power, the more infallible. Christ did not engage them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 The civil government has a right to legislate the behavior between an individual and another individual. The government steps over the line when they try to decide to legislate behavior between an individual and a deity. That is what King Nebucannessor tried to do in forcing everyone to bow to his image. That is also what the national Sunday law will try to do. The civil government can pass laws banning prostitution, gambling, polygamy and other such things even if a specific religion permits the practice. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 The civil government has a right to legislate the behavior between an individual and another individual. ...The civil government can pass laws banning prostitution, gambling, polygamy and other such things even if a specific religion permits the practice. So that is why they have either rescinded, or no longer enforce, the laws regarding what is termed 'sodomy' between a husband and wife, for starters? (I tend to be a bit older than you and remember this stuff since I lived through it.) Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 So that is why they have either rescinded, or no longer enforce, the laws regarding what is termed 'sodomy' between a husband and wife, for starters? Sodomy laws do not violate religious liberty. They may violate the Constitution (I am not saying they do or don't) but they do not violate the establishment or the free exercise clause of the First Amendment. Personally, I am not in favor of sodomy laws, but I would never take the position that such laws violate religious liberty. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: Shane The civil government has a right to legislate the behavior between an individual and another individual. ... So that is why they have either rescinded, or no longer enforce, the laws regarding what is termed 'sodomy' between a husband and wife, for starters? (I tend to be a bit older than you and remember this stuff since I lived through it.) Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Religious freedom has to do with a person's right to have or not have religion, a "deity", or whatever else related. (The "moral majority" types would say that the constitution did not state freedom from religion, which seems to me to say they would inflict religion on those who are not interested. If homosexuals are not religiously inclined and we come along and say they have no right to be "married" then we are inflicting our religious beliefs on them. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I am talking about the issue in general. I am not talking specifically about the United States of America. For example, does Cuba have such a right? Does Kenya have such a right? Does China have such a right? When we get into conversations about religious liberty, we normally do not confine the discussion to just one nation, although since so many of us are from the US, we do often make references to the First Amendment of the US Constitution. The subject of the thread is religious liberty. Do gays have the religious liberty to be gay? I have to say no. Being gay is not a religious activity. Even if it were (like playing BINGO in a perish hall) a nation like Cuba, Kenya or China, could ban the behavior (being gay or gambling) without violating anyone's religious liberty. That is not to say I personally want to ban gays from being gay or Catholics from playing BINGO. I am just saying it is not a religious liberties issue. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Religious freedom has to do with a person's right to have or not have religion, a "deity", or whatever else related. The Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment to the US Constitution pretty much set the standard for what Religious Liberty is. The free exercise clause states that government will not ban the free exercise of religion. That doesn't mean government will not pass any laws based on morality. Bankruptcy laws are based on morality. Child-support laws are based on morality. Speed limits on our roads are based on morality. When we really consider it, all laws are based on morality. The Free Exercise clause basically allows believers of different religions the right to practice their religion without interference from the government. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) Religious freedom has to do with a person's right to have or not have religion, a "deity", or whatever else related. The Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment to the US Constitution pretty much set the standard for what Religious Liberty is. The free exercise clause states that government will not ban the free exercise of religion. .... Are you saying that people do not have the right to NOT have religion? More specifically that one's religious beliefs should be inflicted on those who do not wish to live by religious beliefs? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Are you saying that people do not have the right to NOT have religion? More specifically that one's religious beliefs should be inflicted on those who do not wish to live by religious beliefs? No. Go back and read what I wrote again. That is not what I am saying. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Oh, ok. Glad we cleared that up, since that was the point I was making. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Religious freedom has to do with a person's right to have or not have religion, a "deity", or whatever else related. (The "moral majority" types would say that the constitution did not state freedom from religion, which seems to me to say they would inflict religion on those who are not interested. If homosexuals are not religiously inclined and we come along and say they have no right to be "married" then we are inflicting our religious beliefs on them. People not religiously inclined have been getting married for years. One does not have to look too intensely to see who is inflicting what on who with this issue. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I am talking about the issue in general. I am not talking specifically about the United States of America. For example, does Cuba have such a right? Does Kenya have such a right? Does China have such a right? When we get into conversations about religious liberty, we normally do not confine the discussion to just one nation, although since so many of us are from the US, we do often make references to the First Amendment of the US Constitution. The subject of the thread is religious liberty. Do gays have the religious liberty to be gay? I have to say no. Being gay is not a religious activity. Even if it were (like playing BINGO in a perish hall) a nation like Cuba, Kenya or China, could ban the behavior (being gay or gambling) without violating anyone's religious liberty. That is not to say I personally want to ban gays from being gay or Catholics from playing BINGO. I am just saying it is not a religious liberties issue. I agree; it would not be a "religious liberty;" unless they want to call homosexuality a religion. I also agree it would not be right to ban someone from being gay. "Ban" as in legislating against it. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Religious freedom has to do with a person's right to have or not have religion, a "deity", or whatever else related. (The "moral majority" types would say that the constitution did not state freedom from religion, which seems to me to say they would inflict religion on those who are not interested. If homosexuals are not religiously inclined and we come along and say they have no right to be "married" then we are inflicting our religious beliefs on them. When the prostitute is "so inclined" When the child pornographer is "so inclined" When the drug dealer is "so inclined" When the thief is "so inclined" We still do not accommodate them. In the 1800's when the south was "so inclined" to have slavery - SDAs were opposed. In the 1800's when the issue was debated whether or not to have a constitutional amendment against the sale of alcohol - Ellen White gave very strong "God will get you" messages for those who might refuse to vote in favor of prohibition. We have been legislating Bible morals in civil law for centuries - and it is fine as long as it does not pertain to modes of worship. If homosexuals are claiming that their defiance of the Word of God is an "act of worship" -- I have not heard of it. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 If homosexuals are not religiously inclined and we come along and say they have no right to be "married" then we are inflicting our religious beliefs on them. In the 1800's when the issue was debated whether or not to have a constitutional amendment against the sale of alcohol - Ellen White gave very strong "God will get you" messages for those who might refuse to vote in favor of prohibition. Since there has never ever been, in the recorded history of the world, a thing called same sex marriage, does that mean that every historical world culture has inflicted their religious beliefs on the homosexual community? Would that also include the Romans, the Greeks,animists,the Soviet Union, China, and Nazi Germany among others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Yes, indeed. Seems they want to push their "belief" on the rest of us. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Now that was a really good one, Overaged. Good sense of humor. I don't think they have the power to force you to marry a man - "commit" gay marriage -but I may be proved wrong...who knows. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Pushing a belief on someone is not the same as forcing them to do something. Maybe you need to learn to read whats written..Anyways; nice try. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Oh, I thought it was...You know like the coming Sunday law, for example? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Are you saying that being "gay" is a religion? Have fun with that one... Quote: We preach religious freedom here and all over the world. Why is it then, that we are selective in our promulgation of these freedoms specifically when homosexuals are involved? Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuff sed Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 IMO being gay has nothing to do with either religion or religious freedom. Nuff sed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 it does have everything to do with religiouse freedom! the freedom not to have a religion that condems or prohibit them from living and choosing their life the freedom from hate of religion Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 it does have everything to do with religiouse freedom! the freedom not to have a religion that condems or prohibit them from living and choosing their life the freedom from hate of religion I can certainly understand you saying that gays have a right to religious freedom; but it seems like you are saying here that just being gay is a religion? can you clarify? Oh, and happy thanksgiving PO! It's Thanksgiving today here in Canada!! Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 thanky for the well wishes i dont think of it as a religion but i know many gays that worship the ____! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 thanky for the well wishes i dont think of it as a religion but I know many gays that worship the ____! Hey; I am really stupid sometimes - I don't get your use of the blank at the end of your sentence. I guess you can pm me if it's something you can't post Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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