Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 3, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 3, 2011 Where in the Bible does it say that we are to pay more than 10% tithe?... And Jesus said, "Go sell all that you have and give it to the poor." The early church took that to heart - See Acts 4:32-37. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 And Jesus said, "Go sell all that you have and give it to the poor." The early church took that to heart - See Acts 4:32-37. I haven't done that yet, have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 3, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 3, 2011 No, I haven't either. I know my excuse. What's yours? Your question wasn't whether anyone has given it all away. It was where in the Bible does it say to give more than 10%. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 No, I haven't either. I know my excuse. What's yours? Your question wasn't whether anyone has given it all away. It was where in the Bible does it say to give more than 10%. I think the question was where does it say the rich pay a bigger percentage than 10% for tithe And you are confusing the demands of Obama and a higher tax on the rich with God. Other than paying to "Ceaser" God does not refer to taxes. It certainly isn't referring to giving your tithes and offerings to the government Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I guess I've grown accustomed to indoor plumbing amd don't want to give it up just yet. I know, I'm spoiled rotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie No we do not live in a democracy,it is rather a democratic republic and the following is why........ A distinction without a difference... You are kidding Right? Democracy.......... The chief characteristic and distinguishing feature of a Democracy is: Rule by Omnipotent Majority. In a Democracy, The Individual, and any group of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the unlimited power of The Majority. It is a case of Majority-over-Man. A Republic A Republic, on the other hand, has a very different purpose and an entirely different form, or system, of government. Its purpose is to control The Majority strictly, as well as all others among the people, primarily to protect The Individual’s God-given, unalienable rights and therefore for the protection of the rights of The Minority, of all minorities, and the liberties of people in general. The definition of a Republic is: a constitutionally limited government of the representative type, created by a written Constitution--adopted by the people and changeable (from its original meaning) by them only by its amendment--with its powers divided between three separate Branches: Executive, Legislative and Judicial. Here the term "the people" means, of course, the electorate. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 No, I haven't either. I know my excuse. What's yours? Your question wasn't whether anyone has given it all away. It was where in the Bible does it say to give more than 10%. It does not say......."Sell all you have and give to the government. You seem to have Obama and the government confused with God Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 3, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore No, I haven't either. I know my excuse. What's yours? Your question wasn't whether anyone has given it all away. It was where in the Bible does it say to give more than 10%. It does not say......."Sell all you have and give to the government. You seem to have Obama and the government confused with God No, you are the one confused. The specific question was about tithe, not taxes. Partisan myopia only causes confusion... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 3, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 3, 2011 I guess I've grown accustomed to indoor plumbing amd don't want to give it up just yet. I know, I'm spoiled rotten. You and me too! Then there is this thing of family responsibility... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 3, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 3, 2011 You are kidding Right? Democracy.......... The chief characteristic and distinguishing feature of a Democracy is: Rule by Omnipotent Majority. In a Democracy, The Individual, and any group of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the unlimited power of The Majority. It is a case of Majority-over-Man. A Republic A Republic, on the other hand, has a very different purpose and an entirely different form, or system, of government. Its purpose is to control The Majority strictly, as well as all others among the people, primarily to protect The Individual’s God-given, unalienable rights and therefore for the protection of the rights of The Minority, of all minorities, and the liberties of people in general. The definition of a Republic is: a constitutionally limited government of the representative type, created by a written Constitution--adopted by the people and changeable (from its original meaning) by them only by its amendment--with its powers divided between three separate Branches: Executive, Legislative and Judicial. Here the term "the people" means, of course, the electorate. As I said, partisan myopia only causes confusion... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 No, you are the one confused. The specific question was about tithe, not taxes. Partisan myopia only causes confusion... Then it would be nice if you would answer it. Where in the bible does it say that the rich should give more than 10% as tithe? I can't find it. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Shane wanted to make Obama's tax hike on the rich biblical. It is not.The bible is not referring to a tax leveled by the government.The only specific amount mentioned in the bible is 10% tithe and that is not to be returned to the government. Offerings and any charitable donations or acts do not mean graduated tax increases.We are to pay taxes to the government but that should not be confused with personal giving of ones time or means. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 As I said, partisan myopia only causes confusion... Yup, I did expect this type of an answer from you. When stuck for an answer must become sarcastic. I think I will take the framers words that they understood the difference. You obviously don't To bad Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 3, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore No, you are the one confused. The specific question was about tithe, not taxes. Partisan myopia only causes confusion... Then it would be nice if you would answer it. Where in the bible does it say that the rich should give more than 10% as tithe? I can't find it. I already did. Go back and read and you will find it. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 He certainly paid more in federal inclome tax. God does not require a higher tithe on the rich. Just for the record, Bonnie is the one that has been confused on the difference between taxes and tithe. However I grant that it is a reasonable comparison. Our government does tax on the Biblical model of graduated responsibility. Those that have been blessed much are require to give more. That is a Biblical principle. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 I can't find it. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Shane wanted to make Obama's tax hike on the rich biblical. Biblically I have no moral or ethical problem with Obama's tax hike. The truth is that compared with other countries and US history, taxes are very low right now and even after Obama's proposed tax hike, they would still be comparatively low. The problem I have with it is the timing. I think raising taxes during a recession is a recipe for a double-dip recession. The reason we are in this mess is because of Obama's out-of-control spending. His stimulus plan was money squandered and it just got worse from there. Trillions of dollars spent and two years later and unemployment is still above 8%. Why can't they just pull out the old 2007 budget and say "this is our new budget"? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie Shane wanted to make Obama's tax hike on the rich biblical. Biblically I have no moral or ethical problem with Obama's tax hike. The truth is that compared with other countries and US history, taxes are very low right now and even after Obama's proposed tax hike, they would still be comparatively low. The problem I have with it is the timing. I think raising taxes during a recession is a recipe for a double-dip recession. The reason we are in this mess is because of Obama's out-of-control spending. His stimulus plan was money squandered and it just got worse from there. Trillions of dollars spent and two years later and unemployment is still above 8%. Why can't they just pull out the old 2007 budget and say "this is our new budget"? You did say a graduated tax on the rich was biblical. What other countries pay is not the point. Obama's luxury tax on private jets is just another example of idiocy. It would only increase revenue by 3 billion dollars over 10 years. A teaspoonful in the ocean for the extremely wealthy. Generally means a flood of negative impact towards those Obama pretends to care about.Rather than confront the enormous amount of waste and unnecessary spending he plays his class warefare act. First a leader leads by example.He hasn't a clue. The wealthy did not get that way by being as ignorant of financial matters as the "smartest man to inhabit the White House is" Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 3, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tom As I said, partisan myopia only causes confusion... Yup, I did expect this type of an answer from you. When stuck for an answer must become sarcastic. I think I will take the framers words that they understood the difference. You obviously don't To bad Or perhaps you are also confused about who the "framers" are. The quoted material, supposed definitions of Democracy and Republic, were NOT the words of the framers or even remotely close to what any of them had to say on the matter. The source of what you posted was from the self published book by a fellow by the name of Hamilton Abert Long, originally published in 1963 and republished in 1976. - http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html . If you would start with generally accepted and objective definitions of the words in question, we could discuss this rationally. But if you are going to use the confusingly myopic and skewed "definitions" of an old self-published anti-government hack like Hamilton Abert Long, than sarcasm is what you will get. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Some like to poo-hoo the trikle down effect. When you are in business for yourself you become well acquainted with that process. For the most part my husband contracted with wealthy contractors,not small private homes. Once in awhile he would paint the home of a private party.That was not what provided for our family. It was those filthy rich people. During the Carter years they simply quit building.Really didn't hurt them,they spent winters in Florida,some in the Bahamas or Cancun. It certainly trickled down to have a big impact on our finances.When it was worthwhile for them to begin building again we were very happy with this non-existent trickle down effect. The poor and the middle class didn't do a thing for our income. To go after the rich simply because you can and you want to keep spending recklessly does not work. The rich will take care of theirs. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Still says to me there is a difference between a democracy and a republic and that the framers understood that “We are a Republican Government. Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of Democracy.” (Alexander Hamilton) Alexander Hamilton... - Speech on 21 June 1788 urging ratification of the Constitution in New York. - It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity. Republic vs. Democracy "Hence it is that democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths... A republic, by which I mean a government in which a scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking." (James Madison, Federalist Papers, the McClean Edition, Federalist Paper #10, page 81, 1788) Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Famous Quote from Benjamin Franklin Outside Independence Hall when the Constitutional Convention of 1787 ended, Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, "A republic, if you can keep it." Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Quote: You did say a graduated tax on the rich was biblical. Indeed it is. I praise God that the US government has followed this Biblical principle. I fear one day the rich will rule with an iron boot on the poor and middle class by passing their flat tax. However as long as the poor man has a vote, hopefully that will not happen but if silver-tongued ideologues like Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh have their way, the flat tax may become a reality and the poor will be in chains. Even so, come Lord Jesus. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Or perhaps you are also confused about who the "framers" are......... Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 3, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie No we do not live in a democracy,it is rather a democratic republic and the following is why........ A distinction without a difference... Let's takes this back to where this started, just before it went completely off the rails. For convenience I am going with Wikipedia's definitions. By definition a "democratic republic is a country which is both a republic and a democracy." "Democratic Republic — Republics where the people elect their representatives and may engage in some forms of popular referendums. Examples include the United States of America." " A republic is a form of government in which the people, or some significant portion of them, retain supreme control over the government, at least in theory, and where offices of state are not granted through heritage. The common modern definition of a republic is a government having a head of state who is not a monarch. The word "republic" is derived from the Latin phrase res publica, which can be translated as "a public affair", and often used to describe a state using this form of government." "Democracy is a form of government in which all citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives. Ideally, this includes equal (and more or less direct) participation in the proposal, development and passage of legislation into law. It can also encompass social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination. The term comes from the Greek: [for]"rule of the people", which was coined from ... "people" and ..."power", in the middle of the 5th-4th century BC to denote the political systems then existing in some Greek city-states, notably Athens following a popular uprising in 508 BC." There is a range of types of republics and democracies. Your adamant denial that we live in a democracy is perhaps based on a confusion between a representative democracy and a direct democracy, or some other variation on the theme, but all under the general class of democracy. Do you know which one(s) Alexander Hamilton, or James Madison or Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin were talking about in your quotes above? And do you know which one Shane was talking about? Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 This is what I said in the beginning "democratic republic" Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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