Moderators John317 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 ...Sunday Law predictions are, at this point, a part of the 'anti-reality culture' I've talked about elsewhere. What do you mean you've "talked about elsewhere"? Where "elsewhere"? Do you have a link to your writings on this? Looks like when it actually happens you are going to be taken by surprise. You will be in the same condition as the people at the Flood who heard a warning but when the Flood came, it was as if they hadn't been warned at all. They had no idea it was coming. Weren't they fools? They no doubt thought they were really too smart for old dumb Noah and his silly boat. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 22, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 In other words, you are saying Ellen White can't be trusted and wrote false prophecies. Nope. I'm saying it's too soon to tell. *If* the Sunday Law prophecies turn out never to come true, *then* she'll be a false prophet. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 So in the meantime what are you doing to help people be prepared for Christ's return? Specifically, doesn't God want us to accept and practice the Third Angels' Messages and help spread those messages to neighbors and friends? As I understand it, the Three Angels Messages deal directly with the warning message about the mark of the beast. Do you agree? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 22, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 Originally Posted By: Bravus ...Sunday Law predictions are, at this point, a part of the 'anti-reality culture' I've talked about elsewhere. What do you mean you've "talked about elsewhere"? Where "elsewhere"? Do you have a link to your writings on this? http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/447498/Anti_reality_culture.html#Post447498 Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 You're not serious, are you? Is that all? That's hardly worth looking at. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 22, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 Feel free to go and stick your head in a pig. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 OK. Can you show me how you do it first? I've never done it and I don't know anyone else who knows. And you'll have to supply the pig, too. They're prohibited where I live. :-) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 22, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 22, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore Thanks for your opinion... Are these my opinion:... Don't be disingenuous. It was transparently obvious that I was not responding to that post. And that post you quoted back to was obviously not your opinion since it was only quoting another person, EGW. It was not the post which mine immediately followed and was precisely linked to, had you bothered to double check. This was your opinion to which I was responding: Originally Posted By: John317 Mere human opinions are utterly worthless. Like some other things, everyone's got one or two, and most are pretty foolish. Apart from Inspiration, people are terrible at predicting the future. The only thing that matters is what God has revealed. We can depend on it. God isn't guessing. If you think you know better than Him, go for it. Here is the definition of "opinion": Quote: 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. 2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. 3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion. 4. Law . the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case. 5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion. Obviously # 3 & #4 do not apply to what you posted, but all of the other definitions do. Let's take a closer look at your merely human opinion. (I assume you are a mere human.) I think it fair to say that it expresses your personal view, attitude and appraisal about mere human opinion generally and more specifically what I had previously posted, since you were responding to my previous post directly. That would make it merely your opinion on those things. If we assume this specific opinion of yours to hold any water, i.e. something sufficiently grounded on certainty or reasonably provable fact, what you said was also utterly worthless and pretty foolish. But as with most popular cliche ideas, a bit of thought easily confirms the fallacy underlying your opinion, making it at least self-confirming. Not all opinions of mere mortals are foolish or worthless as definitions 3 & 4 should confirm. We do place significant value on the opinions of trained and experienced professionals and judges, some of which are non-Christian, and even atheists. Unless you are willing to rethink some of your previously expressed ideas about inspiration, to validate this opinion of yours, you would either have to dismiss them as worthless and foolish rantings of uninspired mere mortals or that those people were directly inspired by God or that their thoughts were revealed to them by God. And a moments reflection should also prove the point further. We routinely seek out others opinions or form our own, rely and act upon those opinions. Unless you think we all act the fool, that alone should disprove your opinion. I would also say that the clear implication of your post, taken as a whole, falls within definitions 2 & 5. Since you directed it at me and what I posted, it seems to clearly reflect your personal attitude, appraisal and dismissive estimation of what I posted (and perhaps to some extent, me personally) as being worthless, not just merely foolish, but foolhardy, and apparently unworthy of any serious reflection and substantive engagement. (It also reflects an underlying premise that unless one directly quotes Scripture or EGW, that what is said is without any divine inspiration, that God stopped revealing anything to mere mortals after EGW died.) That leads directly to the more serious point of your opinion. If you hold to what I understand you to mean by "what God has revealed", it is only past tense, that we can only depend on Scripture and EGW, than any further study and Biblical scholarship is unnecessary. It also closes the door to any new light, or even re-examining, revising or updating our historic interpretations. In short, we should not use the brains God gave us to think and continue to learn. Here is my opinion. What God has revealed is not all that matters. Active and continual discernment matters. Openness to God's Spirit revealing new things matters. Humbly recognizing that all humans err, including EGW, matters. And a willingness to change and progress matters. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted July 22, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 The comments on the other thread about Mosques and the man who wants to be the Republican Candidate for president has nothing to do with this discussion. In the other discussion, the issue was whether the candidate was correct to speak his mind about American's having a right to keep Mosques from being built in their city. I'm genuinely surprised that you don't see the connection. Cain is clearly advocating the restrictions of religious freedoms, right? Adventists have always understood that the beast of Revelation 13 will seek to restrict religious freedoms. Of course Cain is right to speak his mind but in my opinion he is of the Spirit that will lead the USA down the road of persecuting those who are different religiously and otherwise. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2011 Sure, I do see the connection you're talking about. But I never did say or imply that I agree with those Americans who would ban Muslims from building Mosques. I can see why you may have thought that's what I was saying, though. I didn't make that point clear, and I should have. My main point was that Cain shows he's not afraid to say things that other candidates might think but wouldn't express in public. I like that aspect about him, even though I don't always agree with him. Having said that, I do have concerns about some Muslims attempting to bring Shria law into the American legal and social system. I also am concerned about some Muslims attempting to undermine the American and Western way of life, a goal which Muslim fundamentalists don't deny. So I believe that the American people do have a reason to look carefully at those issues. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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