Common Points of Doctrine

[teresaq]

When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result. {GC 445.1}Which points of doctrine, aside from Sunday, do the leading churches all agree on?

[teresaq]

I guess its not something we think about.

I wonder how many of those points would be biblical, and how many we would be in agreement with other denominations...

[phkrause]

When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result. {GC 445.1}Which points of doctrine, aside from Sunday, do the leading churches all agree on?

Very interesting thought teresaq. I think this has already begun. Didn't the Luthern Church already reach out to the RCC and put there difference's aside? And basically the LC was the one giving in and the RCC didn't change one thing? Not sure of all the points of doctrine, but Sunday being one of them. I believe the state of the dead being another. The IJ also being one, but not sure? I do believe that most of the Protestant Church believe in the IJ but the RCC does not? John probably has a better handle on this than I do.

[Overaged]

Which points of doctrine, aside from Sunday, do the leading churches all agree on?

In reality, not very many. Even when you just consider the use of the word "Bible" there are some very different definitions thereof out there with the major players involved.

[teresaq]

John probably has a better handle on this than I do.

...With all due respect to both you and "J" shouldn't we study for ourselves, instead of relying on others? Each one of us, being more carnal than holy, can only be subjective and sometimes prejudiced, therefore not reliable as any kind of authority. We would also only see maybe one point, missing some other important ones.

I know for myself, I don't know how many times hearing someone else has added to my understanding.

Maybe I should point out that these statements really stressed the importance of relying on no one else, not even the SDA church, for my understanding of spiritual issues.

it is not enough to rely upon other men’s thoughts. ...—The Review and Herald, March 4, 1884.

With divine help we are to form our opinions for ourselves as we are to answer for ourselves before God. {DD 38.3}

If Nathanael had trusted to the rabbis for guidance, he would never have found Jesus. ... {DA 140.5}

While they trust to the guidance of human authority, none will come to a saving knowledge of the truth. .... {DA 141.1}

Please forgive me for being "preachy", but it scares me when I see so many in our church who rely on the pastor or some favorite to decide how they should believe, especially when I know important information was left out.

I am in no way safe and secure, that is for sure, but it saddens me to think of how many in the SDA church, as well as the world, who will be lost because we chose others to explain anything to us.

Again, no disrespect intended to "J".

[John317]

When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result. {GC 445.1}Which points of doctrine, aside from Sunday, do the leading churches all agree on?

A couple of other such commonly held beliefs among many if not most of the churches are the immortality of the soul and the conviction that human embryos and fetuses have immortal souls. In recent years, the latter has proved to be a particularly strong incentive for the churches to come together.

Both Bible prophecy and the writings of Ellen White show that the two main doctrines that will bring churches together near the time of Christ's return are Sunday worship and the immortality of the soul (which I believe includes the abortion issue).

Ellen White's quote shouldn't be understood to mean that SDAs do not also share some of those churches's doctrines. Obviously we do share some of them since we base our doctrines on the Bible, as they often do also.

It would be foolish to say that since they all hold a particular view, we need to jettison it. If the belief is solidly based on Scripture, we obviously should believe it and keep it as a church doctrine.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

John probably has a better handle on this than I do.

...With all due respect to both you and "J" shouldn't we study for ourselves, instead of relying on others? Each one of us, being more carnal than holy, can only be subjective and sometimes prejudiced, therefore not reliable as any kind of authority. We would also only see maybe one point, missing some other important ones.

I know for myself, I don't know how many times hearing someone else has added to my understanding.

Maybe I should point out that these statements really stressed the importance of relying on no one else, not even the SDA church, for my understanding of spiritual issues.

it is not enough to rely upon other men’s thoughts. ...—The Review and Herald, March 4, 1884.

With divine help we are to form our opinions for ourselves as we are to answer for ourselves before God. {DD 38.3}

If Nathanael had trusted to the rabbis for guidance, he would never have found Jesus. ... {DA 140.5}

While they trust to the guidance of human authority, none will come to a saving knowledge of the truth. .... {DA 141.1}

Please forgive me for being "preachy", but it scares me when I see so many in our church who rely on the pastor or some favorite to decide how they should believe, especially when I know important information was left out.

I am in no way safe and secure, that is for sure, but it saddens me to think of how many in the SDA church, as well as the world, who will be lost because we chose others to explain anything to us.

Oh I definitely agree, but I never said that I have not studied this for myself. That doesn't mean that others don't understand stuff better than others, does it? That's why when one reads the Bible and they get to a place that they don't understand, don't you think that going to someone else and asking there thinking and see if it makes sense???? Or maybe seeing what EGW has to say about it????? And as far as that last sentence of yours! I totaling disagree.

[teresaq]

OK. :)

[John317]

I completey agree, pk.

[John317]

Some other common views that will help to bring the churches together-- and already are bringing them together-- are the beliefs that churches should indeed influence the government; that it is right for governments to lend its support to morality and religion; that the churches must come together in the interest of social stability; and finally, that the gospel and atonement consists only in the work of Christ on the cross and that Christians don't need to keep the entire moral law of God.

[teresaq]

Starting in the '80s it has seemed to me that what has been strongly used to unite the churches has been the anti-abortion and anti-gay movements.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

John probably has a better handle on this than I do.

...With all due respect to both you and "J" shouldn't we study for ourselves, instead of relying on others? Each one of us, being more carnal than holy, can only be subjective and sometimes prejudiced, therefore not reliable as any kind of authority. We would also only see maybe one point, missing some other important ones.

Well; you certainly do not seem to be directing any disrespect to "J"

When you said "more carnal than holy;" perhaps you should have spelled it "holey?"

[teresaq]

Since I'm on the dense side, maybe you can explain the "holey".

[Overaged]

LOL, full of holes

[teresaq]

That's what I thought but I'm still "left on the moon" as my Guatemalan friend says.

How would "holey" contrast with "carnal"? We are more fleshly- minded than full of holes? (as I scratch my head in confusion. )

[John317]

Starting in the '80s it has seemed to me that what has been strongly used to unite the churches has been the anti-abortion and anti-gay movements.

The anti-abortion movement was strong in some of the churches even back in the early 70s.

Today I think most churches tend to be against "anti-gay," and in favor of gays.

[Overaged]

Today I think most churches tend to be against "anti-gay," and in favor of gays.

While this may be true on an "official" or doctrinal level, I think reality says something different. The way people treat/talk about them can be pretty shocking.

[John317]

Yes, isn't that the truth!

Somehow it's so hard for people to separate the sin from the sinner, but that's what God does and He wants us to do it, too. We can't help people if we don't do it, because they won't listen to our message if they can see we don't care for them personally.

[Overaged]

Yes, isn't that the truth!

Somehow it's so hard for people to separate the sin from the sinner, but that's what God does and He wants us to do it, too. We can't help people if we don't do it, because they won't listen to our message if they can see we don't care for them personally.

We should make it our daily care to cultivate sympathy and affection for one another. This is the fruit that grows on the Christian tree; it does not produce the briers and thorns of hatred and strife. The harsh, unsympathetic words we sometimes hear spoken, and the hardheartedness we see manifested, are wholly satanic, and this spirit must be supplanted by the spirit of Christ. Jesus bids us, “Love one another, as I have loved you. . . . By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” [John 13:34, 35.] He is our mighty Helper; and if he abides in our hearts, we shall manifest his spirit. We shall love one another; we cannot help it; for he is love. {GW92 460.1}

[teresaq]

pkrause, please forgive me for picking your post to get on my bandwagon. Sometimes I do not stop to think. :(

[phkrause]

pkrause, please forgive me for picking your post to get on my bandwagon. Sometimes I do not stop to think.

No problem teresaq you are forgiven, but than there's nothing to forgive.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

John probably has a better handle on this than I do.

...With all due respect to both you and "J" shouldn't we study for ourselves, instead of relying on others? Each one of us, being more carnal than holy, can only be subjective and sometimes prejudiced, therefore not reliable as any kind of authority. We would also only see maybe one point, missing some other important ones.

I know for myself, I don't know how many times hearing someone else has added to my understanding.

Maybe I should point out that these statements really stressed the importance of relying on no one else, not even the SDA church, for my understanding of spiritual issues.

it is not enough to rely upon other men’s thoughts. ...—The Review and Herald, March 4, 1884.

With divine help we are to form our opinions for ourselves as we are to answer for ourselves before God. {DD 38.3}

If Nathanael had trusted to the rabbis for guidance, he would never have found Jesus. ... {DA 140.5}

While they trust to the guidance of human authority, none will come to a saving knowledge of the truth. .... {DA 141.1}

Please forgive me for being "preachy", but it scares me when I see so many in our church who rely on the pastor or some favorite to decide how they should believe, especially when I know important information was left out.

I am in no way safe and secure, that is for sure, but it saddens me to think of how many in the SDA church, as well as the world, who will be lost because we chose others to explain anything to us.

Again, no disrespect intended to "J".

That's a very important point Teresa. These quotes are full of warning: "With divine help we are to form our opinions for ourselves as we are to answer for ourselves before God. {DD 38.3}

"If Nathanael had trusted to the rabbis for guidance, he would never have found Jesus. ... {DA 140.5} While they trust to the guidance of human authority, none will come to a saving knowledge of the truth. .... {DA 141.1}

The first one I had never seen before (excellent one) but the other two from the Desire of Ages I have used before. They are, to say the very least of it, very enlightening quotes. Here is a similar one:

"Those who feared God were to think for themselves. They were no longer to let other men do their thinking. They were no longer to be chained down to erroneous maxims, theories, and doctrines." E.G. White, This Day Wkith God, p.32.

Of course we are to "prove all things and hold fast that which is good." 1 Thess.5:20.

sky

[skyblue888]

"To secure such a union, the discussion of subjects upon which all were not agreed--however important they might be from a Bible standpoint--must necessarily be waived." G.C.444.

As far as we are concerned, these subjects upon which all are not agreed and that must be waived, no matter how important they might be from a Bible standpoint, include the Sabbath, the nature of Christ in His incarnation, and the atonement.

Certainly these are the subjects that we adventists must waived if we are to come into unity with the World Council of Churches. Isn't it interesting that during those meetings that took place between 1955 and 1957 between us and the evangelicals, these were the very subjects that were compromised and as a result, at the end of the meetings, the evangelicals declared that there were no more obstacles that prevented them from receiving us as members of the body of Christ!

They reached across the gulf to grasp that outstretched hand.

This can be verified from Movement of Destiny by L.E. Froom, p.473-475.

sky

[skyblue888]

I do believe that most of the Protestant Church believe in the IJ but the RCC does not.

pkrause

_______

pk, could you elaborate on this a little? since when most of the protestant churches believe in IJ?

sky