Dr. Shane Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 It may come as a shock to you but no one begins a business with the goal of providing jobs for "you poor working stiffs" This is not correct. Often times when a new business needs property to be rezoned they tell the zoning commission how many new jobs their proposed business will create for the community. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I would assume then that you would be in favor of the Flat Tax, given your appeal to revenue equity. `oG The flat tax would eliminate loop holes which is why most people are opposed to it. The graduated tax scale is fair because it applies to everyone the same. For example, Bill Gates pays the same percentage of taxes on his first $10,000 of income as I do. The graduated tax scale taxes people on blocks of income, not on their entire income as a whole. Tax loop holes are used to encourage behavior that benefits society - like hiring more workers and providing benefits to them. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie It may come as a shock to you but no one begins a business with the goal of providing jobs for "you poor working stiffs" This is not correct. Often times when a new business needs property to be rezoned they tell the zoning commission how many new jobs their proposed business will create for the community. That doesn't have anything to do with the reasons for starting your own business. That has to do with getting rezoning approved. People begin a business because they want more for their family. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 People begin a business because they want more for their family. Not everyone is that selfish and self-centered. I got my college degree in Construction Management. In business school they taught us that we need to give back to the community. They also taught us that we have a debt to our employees. Self-centered and selfish people may start a business just thinking about themselves and their families but I don't think most people have such dubious motives. Most people love other people and want to use their business to make the world a better place. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie People begin a business because they want more for their family. Not everyone is that selfish and self-centered. I got my college degree in Construction Management. In business school they taught us that we need to give back to the community. They also taught us that we have a debt to our employees. Self-centered and selfish people may start a business just thinking about themselves and their families but I don't think most people have such dubious motives. Most people love other people and want to use their business to make the world a better place. You are taking your usual liberty with what was said or being deliberately ignorant of people beginning their own business. By beginning and making a success out of your business you are giving back to your community. Not sure where....."They also taught us that we have a debt to our employees" came from. The employer owes his employee safe working conditions and a fair wage for the job done. The best and most responsible and unselfish thing you can do for your country,state town,immediate community is to take care of yourself and family first so you and family are not a burden to others.If you begin a business the most unselfish thing you can do is to follow your ambitions,work hard and make a success,from there employee's follow and continue to be a factor as long as you are successful.Your business is not started with the main goal of employing others. However that has little to do with taxing small business more. Love to see where your "facts" come from that people begin businesses out of love for other people Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Not sure where....."They also taught us that we have a debt to our employees" came from. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 That would be Minnesota State University, Mankato school of business. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 27, 2011 Administrators Share Posted July 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore I then listed the liquid assets that were the the top 1% own that exceed the national debt. Real estate is not a liquid asset. Stocks and bonds are only liquid if there is someone to buy them. Obviously if all the rich were to decide to sell all their stocks and bonds, we would have a lack of buyers. Who would buy all those stocks? And that is why I excluded the value of real estate and still had a figure in excess of the national debt. Stocks and bonds are considered to be liquid assets by any common business/accounting/investment definition of the term. (Look it up in Investopedia...) The criteria is that the asset be readily converted to cash in a short time frame without effecting the value of the asset. There would be no lack of buyers and it wouldn't negatively impact the global exchange markets. Literally trillions of dollars worth of assets are exchanged daily. The bulk of this is through professional fund managers. As of the end of 2009 assets under management of the global fund management industry accounted for well over $100 trillion of global wealth. Pension funds and insurance funds accounted for over $50 trillion of that. Mutual funds another $23 trillion and private wealth another $39 trillion. Originally Posted By: Shane The majority of Americans do not even understand baseline budgeting. Baseline budgeting was started in 1974 and needs to be reformed. Look at the rate our debt has been increasing since 1974. It is rather disingenuous to quote opinion polls of people that are not fully informed on how the federal government's budget works. Yes, the American people are too ignorant to understand government and how it works, so let's just ignore that we are have a democratic form of government of the people, for the people and by the people. I think it more than disingenuous to disregard what the people say they want while purportedly claiming to represent them. The irony is that those most adamantly opposed to doing what the polls indicate as the people's wish, are claiming to be opposing it on behalf of the American people. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I excluded the value of real estate and still had a figure in excess of the national debt. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Cold hearted people often start their own business so they and their families do not become a burden to others. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Quote: They worked 40 hours a week and that was enough. Even tho they took a 2-3 week vacation every year. Quote: That is admirable. Not everyone is called to be self-employed. Many of our noble members work in the health-care profession. Other noble members work in education. Certainly not everyone is called to start their own business. But some very special people are and I don't believe for a minute that most of them are cold-hearted and selfish. There isn't anything admirable about restricting oneself to 40 hours a week and then go with hat in hand and have others contribute to the care of your children. Not everyone should own a business,EVERYONE is obligated to do whatever they can to care for their own. Even if that means working two jobs at times.When they have exhausted all God given talents and the 24 hours a day each of us has,then ask for a hand out from the cold hearted. Regardless,the more they levy against small business the more small business will pull in their horns. Some will close up and retire earlier than planned,others will go out of business,others will merely tread water until Obama and friends are replaced. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 There isn't anything admirable about restricting oneself to 40 hours a week and then go with hat in hand and have others contribute to the care of your children. I can't disagree more. There are many working poor that are able to send their children to our church school because they receive a helping hand. That is honorable. I am glad they are not sending their kids to public school because they are too proud to take the help. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie There isn't anything admirable about restricting oneself to 40 hours a week and then go with hat in hand and have others contribute to the care of your children. I can't disagree more. There are many working poor that are able to send their children to our church school because they receive a helping hand. That is honorable. I am glad they are not sending their kids to public school because they are too proud to take the help. Still has nothing to do with taxing small business Just so you don't continue to pretend to misunderstand... There are those that should be helped. Those that refuse to do anymore than absolutely necessary to keep body and soul together while others are working 60-70 hours a week are not honorable.They are users. They are also taking from those that are working up to their capabilities and unable to receive the help. The poor as well as the middle class,and rich have a obligation to use the 24 hours a day we all have and to make use of the talents God has given each of us.Immediate needs should be taken care of and then a serious discussion as to what steps they can do to improve their lot in life While there are those that will still need continuing help most can take positive steps to help themselves Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 She's right you know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 No. She is not right. Many people decide that instead of starting a small business that will require 60 to 70 hours a week that they want to spend time with their family. They decide that instead of investing time and passion in a small business, they will sit with their kids and help them with their homework. They sacrifice what could be a successful small business to invest more time in their marriage. They have family worship each evening. They never miss prayer meeting or Friday night vespers. They attend all their children's music recitals, little league and gymnastic meets. They understand that in many areas of life, we have to choose. We can't do it all. Sometimes that means people don't earn as much money as they could. But money isn't everything. So what about taxes? The rich pay more and they should. We need the poor. That is the fact. We need someone to work the cash machine at the supermarket. We need someone to clear the table and wash the dishes. We need someone to patch the holes in our streets. Those people are just as important to society as the elite movers and shakers. Everybody pays taxes. Everyone. If you buy gas, you pay taxes. If you use the phone, you pay taxes. We all pay taxes. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 No. She is not right. Many people decide that instead of starting a small business that will require 60 to 70 hours a week that they want to spend time with their family. They decide that instead of investing time and passion in a small business, they will sit with their kids and help them with their homework. They sacrifice what could be a successful small business to invest more time in their marriage. They have family worship each evening. They never miss prayer meeting or Friday night vespers. They attend all their children's music recitals, little league and gymnastic meets. They understand that in many areas of life, we have to choose. We can't do it all. Sometimes that means people don't earn as much money as they could. But money isn't everything. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Regardless of how you would like to paint small business owners they are not going to rush to hire or expand by being taxed more. Because Obama says "Hire" he thinks that will fix it. When he tells the banks to lend more he thinks recession/depression over. Not going to happen. When he says I want trillons more to spend he thinks it should be handed over and his spending binge will be picked up mostly by small business. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 If someone chooses not to work any more than 40 hours per week, then make the choice to live within your means. I am glad that Jesus didn't and does not have that attitude. Each of us are given different talents and we are simply to use the talents we have to the glory of the Lord. There are many working poor that simply don't earn enough to be able to send their children to our schools. Often times they don't come to us with hat in hand but we go to them and ask for the honor to sponsor their children in our schools. Jesus taught that those that earn more have an obligation to those that earn less. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie If someone chooses not to work any more than 40 hours per week, then make the choice to live within your means. I am glad that Jesus didn't and does not have that attitude. Each of us are given different talents and we are simply to use the talents we have to the glory of the Lord. There are many working poor that simply don't earn enough to be able to send their children to our schools. Often times they don't come to us with hat in hand but we go to them and ask for the honor to sponsor their children in our schools. Jesus taught that those that earn more have an obligation to those that earn less. I am also glad Jesus didn't have yours. You have not seen anywhere that I have disputed that those with more have a obligation. I have not denied there are those that need help and should have it. And yes many don't ask. And yes,we have to be alert to needs of others. Those that ask and are not prepared to do all they can to help their own situation. You make the assumption that any that disagree with your "statement" as to what others should do are opposed to helping those with less.Wrong assumption.You haven't a clue what my husband and I or anyone else have given to help others. As long as I am not independently wealthy and have to pick and choose when and how much help I can be to another it will be where I feel it can be the most useful. That will be those that cannot help themselves anymore than they are doing.It will not be those that are as capable as I am and they choose not to go beyond the minimum. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I had a cleaning service for ten years,had four full time employee's. At times I needed an extra hand or two. We had a family in chruch that was always in need but they kept having children,finally stopping at five. They were on welfare. I asked the wife if she wanted a few days work or whatever she was allowed. She was so "grateful".I was her answer to prayer.She needed winter clothing for her kids and didn't have any money. Half way thru the first day I was no longer the answer to her prayers. She had "no idea she would have to work that hard". I would have to find someone else. Didn't stop her from crying the blues to every person in chruch that would still listen and they finally gave her the money. She was nothing but a user. Would I contribute anything towards her family again. Nope.There were others that needed help and would do whatever they could. They did not make a profession out of being needy. Some always needed a little boost but it was not for lack of trying. We always had three large gardens when on the farm.I offered this same family a large amount of vegetables I didn't have time to can and freeze.That was wonderful,she would take any extra I had. The next time when I called her I suggested she come and pick early as it would be hot. She was hesitant and finally asked if they were expected to pick it all.When I said yes,she "didn't think they could make it" I gave a lot of food away but never again to her.I wanted it to go where it would be put to use and of some value Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I have thought about starting a small business myself after the kids are out of the house but we will see what God has in store. I got married my last year in college and so I decided to give my wife my time as a newly wed instead of a business. I am not one to lie to myself and pretend I can have it all. The 12-Step recovery program I have belonged to since I was 16 has always taught me to be true to myself. I knew it would be my marriage or my business and I went for the marriage. Then the kids came along and for now I am giving my time to them. I have been doing most everything a small business owner does for the past 12 years. I help a lot of the subcontractors to run their businesses. I get calls out of the blue from subs I haven't worked with in months asking me me a business question and looking for guidance. I know there are many rewarding aspects of being a small business owner but for now, God has other plans for me. I am not unique. God doesn't call everyone to be in business for themselves. Someone has to do the lifting and it doesn't pay as much. So we that make more, help them out. That is just. I am a construction manager in senior level management but I couldn't build one job without dozens of masons, concrete workers, welders, painters, electricians, plumbers, carpenters and so many more. I am no better or more deserving because I do what I do. Their place in this world is just as important as mine. The rich pay more in taxes because they have a greater obligation. They didn't become rich on their own. If they think they did, let them move to Kenya or Pakistan or New Guinea and see how successful they can be there. They will quickly realize they owe something to the public school system in the US. The owe something to the federal government which protects private property, builds and maintains an infrastructure and provides the best law enforcement the world has ever seen. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I have thought about starting a small business myself after the kids are out of the house but we will see what God has in store. I got married my last year in college and so I decided to give my wife my time as a newly wed instead of a business. I am not one to lie to myself and pretend I can have it all. The 12-Step recovery program I have belonged to since I was 16 has always taught me to be true to myself. I knew it would be my marriage or my business and I went for the marriage. Then the kids came along and for now I am giving my time to them. I have been doing most everything a small business owner does for the past 12 years. I help a lot of the subcontractors to run their businesses. I get calls out of the blue from subs I haven't worked with in months asking me me a business question and looking for guidance. I know there are many rewarding aspects of being a small business owner but for now, God has other plans for me. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 28, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 28, 2011 ...Actually, there is enough money among the rich to completely satisfy the entire national debt. Total privately held wealth is approximately $60 trillion. 35% of that, $21 trillion is in the hands of the top 1% (the super rich upper class). More than 85%, $51 trillion, is in the hands of the top 25% (the millionaires and billionaires of the US). .... There is more than enough money in the resources of the rich in the US to pay off our national debt. Who among the rich or the non-rich has a responsibility to give their own money to the government in order to get it out of the mess that the government itself made? The government would almost certainly go right back to making the same mistakes and getting us into debt. The Federal government has not shown any ability to discipline itself and clean their own house and stop waisting the citizen's money. Post 27,000. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore ...Actually, there is enough money among the rich to completely satisfy the entire national debt. Total privately held wealth is approximately $60 trillion. 35% of that, $21 trillion is in the hands of the top 1% (the super rich upper class). More than 85%, $51 trillion, is in the hands of the top 25% (the millionaires and billionaires of the US). .... There is more than enough money in the resources of the rich in the US to pay off our national debt. Who among the rich or the non-rich has a responsibility to give their own money to the government in order to get it out of the mess that the government itself made? The government would almost certainly go right back to making the same mistakes and getting us into debt. The Federal government has not shown any ability to discipline itself and clean their own house and stop waisting the citizen's money. If you have more than the democrats think you should have it is theirs. There is no way taxes can be raised high enough when statistically they spend 1.56 for 1.00 of new revenue. I do expect Obama to win this in the end.I hope not but ultimately he and the treasurer controls who gets a check if a shutdown happens. I think he is petty enough and vindictive enough to with hold SS checks and make it really hurt.If he can find a way and the wind is blowing favorably in his direction so he doesn't have any blame attached to him many will be in a world of hurt Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Many can handle having a marriage,kids and a business. It is not unique Perhaps a handful, but most small business owners I have known and worked with put in over 40 hours a week, especially when they are starting the business. An hour at work is an hour away from the family and/or church. Many people choose family or choose church over career. Some people actually go to college so that they can do exactly that. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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