Robert Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Why is the true gospel important? 1] First it gives us "Peace with God" 2] It answers all the legal requirements of God's law 3] It destroys legalism 4] It strengths our faith because in it we see the love of God If your version of the gospel answers these 4 points, then you have and understand the everlasting gospel. Feel free to post your understanding of the gospel, but please remember this post is about the gospel - i.e., the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The fruit of the gospel (good works) is another topic. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted April 5, 2005 Moderators Share Posted April 5, 2005 Quote: Why is the true gospel important? 1] First it gives us "Peace with God" 2] It answers all the legal requirements of God's law 3] It destroys legalism [:"blue"]AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! But my question to you is, does the Gospel set aside Law? [/] Quote: 4] It strengths our faith because in it we see the love of God If your version of the gospel answers these 4 points, then you have and understand the everlasting gospel. Feel free to post your understanding of the gospel, but please remember this post is about the gospel - i.e., the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The fruit of the gospel (good works) is another topic. Rob [:"blue"]So then, what was the Gospel that was preached to Abraham? Gal 3:8. And what was the Gospel that was preached to the Israelites in the wilderness? Heb 4:2. [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Quote: If your version of the gospel answers these 4 points, then you have and understand the everlasting gospel. Actually, the Bible says that if you have the Bible, you read the Bible, you earnestly seek understanding of His Word through prayer--then, you will have and understand the everlasting gospel. These words I've quoted above come from Robert. An earnest seeker of the truth. It is his opinion of what the Bible and his time in prayer with the Lord have shown him to be truth. Time with the Lord will show each of us truth. With the understanding that each of us are unique and loved uniquely by God, it is feasible to suggest that God will show us truth in unique ways. Ways that are appropos to each of us--God's children. Robert, your understanding seems sound to me. It makes sense to me. It is not grossly different than my own understanding of the true gospel. I would never presume, however, to claim that my own understanding is the one true understanding of the gospel. It is the true understanding as God has revealed it to me at this point in my walk with Him. Anything more, or anything less would be false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted April 5, 2005 Moderators Share Posted April 5, 2005 I have no problem with Robert's understanding of justification. IMHO, it is his understanding of sanctification that is way off the mark. And to me, God's power to change people who are cooperating with Him is just as much good news as His power to forgive sins. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 5, 2005 Author Share Posted April 5, 2005 Quote: I would never presume, however, to claim that my own understanding is the one true understanding of the gospel. I am in good company in my understanding. Company like 1] The Apostle Paul 2] Jones & Waggoner (The GC of 1888) 3] Ellen White (towards her latter years) Is my understanding perfect in every detail? No, but it answers the fundamental issues that I have named. There's also another aspect of the true gospel. It disproves what is commonly called "the immortal soul". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 5, 2005 Author Share Posted April 5, 2005 Quote: does the Gospel set aside Law? Gerry, please let's limit this discussion to the gospel....The fruits of the gospel are another issue. Now I can answer that the gospel [the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ as man] actually fulfilled the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 6, 2005 Author Share Posted April 6, 2005 Quote: There's also another aspect of the true gospel. It disproves what is commonly called "the immortal soul". 1 John 5:11 God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. Note: We have immortality by faith.... Immortality in reality rest in Jesus Christ. We will receive our immortal, glorified life at the resurrection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted April 6, 2005 Moderators Share Posted April 6, 2005 Quote: Quote: does the Gospel set aside Law? Gerry, please let's limit this discussion to the gospel....The fruits of the gospel are another issue. Now I can answer that the gospel [the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ as man] actually fulfilled the law. [:"blue"]You have a Robert-made definition of the Gospel, and limiting it to that definition. My understanding of what the Bible is saying about the Gospel goes farther than yours. If your narrow definition is correct, let me ask you again, what was the Gospel that was preached to Abraham? Gal 3:8, and what was the Gospel preached to the Israelites in the wilderness? Heb 2:4. [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 6, 2005 Author Share Posted April 6, 2005 Quote: If your narrow definition is correct, let me ask you again, what was the Gospel that was preached to Abraham? Gal 3:8, and what was the Gospel preached to the Israelites in the wilderness? Heb 2:4. Gal 3:8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”...16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. Like I said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Quote: Quote: There's also another aspect of the true gospel. It disproves what is commonly called "the immortal soul". 1 John 5:11 God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. Note: We have immortality by faith.... Immortality in reality rest in Jesus Christ. We will receive our immortal, glorified life at the resurrection. [:"red"] "He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. " [/] Rom 2:7 NLT [:"red"] "... who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen" [/] 1 Tim 6:16 NASB As far as I know, even after being glorified we will still need access to the tree of life to maintain eternal life. There is a difference between eternal life and immortality. [:"red"] "In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. " [/] Rev 22:2 NKJV Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Quote: Quote: If your narrow definition is correct, let me ask you again, what was the Gospel that was preached to Abraham? Gal 3:8 Like I said.... [:"red"] "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." [/] Romans 1:16 KJV The Gospel, or good news of salvation, denotes being saved from something. The words of Jesus found in the Holy Scriptures tell us from what we are promised to be saved. This salvation is only withheld from those unwilling to submit to the Person capable of bringing those promises to pass. Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted April 7, 2005 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2005 Quote: Quote: Quote: If your narrow definition is correct, let me ask you again, what was the Gospel that was preached to Abraham? Gal 3:8, and what was the Gospel preached to the Israelites in the wilderness? Heb 2:4. Gal 3:8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”...16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. Like I said.... [:"purple"]Here are just a few verses that might expand your definition of what the gospel is. [/] [:"blue"]"After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the KINGDOM OF GOD..." Lk 8:1 NIV. [:"red"]"What is the kingdom of God like? And to what shall I compare it? It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and put in his garden; and it grew and became a large tree, and the birds of the air nested in its branches." Lk 13:8 NKJ "And again He said, 'To what shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened." Lk 13:20 NKJ. "How beautiful upon the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news, Who proclaims peace, Who brings glad tidings of GOOD things, Who proclaims SALVATION, Who says to Zion, YOUR GOD REIGNS!" Isa 52:7 NKJ [/] [:"red"]"The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD." Lk 4:18,19 NKJ [/] [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveM1936 Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 The Gospel includes, according to Jesus, these things: a. Baptizm b. Trinity c. Obedience to everything Jesus taught d. Bible study e. Maintaining the close relationship between you and Jesus. f. Witnessing g. Study of the book of Daniel, especially the time prophecies. 2300 years h. Nearness of the Kingdom of God i. Repentance j. Faith (dependence) alone in Jesus Christ. Matt 28:18-20: Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and [:"red"]teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.[:"red"] And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."" (NIV) Your friend, Dave M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted April 7, 2005 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2005 Thanks Dave. I've been trying to prod Robert to expand his mind about the Gospel, that it is BIGGER than anyone of us think it is. Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 Quote: "He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. " Rom 2:7 NLT That is not the gospel! As long as you persist in putting works into the equation you have perverted the gospel and Christ will not return! The gospel must be restored.... "This gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 Quote: The Gospel includes, according to Jesus, these things: No Dave...NO!!! That is what is wrong with Adventism....150 years in the wilderness - just like the Jews! That is not the gospel.... Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions [unbelievers], made us alive together with Christ [:"red"](by grace you have been saved)[/], 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, [:"red"]in Christ Jesus[/].... That is the gospel - "in Christ"! Not "in Christ" + good works. Those who oppose the gospel will join Babylon (if they are not there already!) 7 in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works Verse 10 speaks of the fruit of accepting the gospel....Fruit bearing is not the gospel! The subject here on this post is the gospel....Please stay on the subject. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 8, 2005 Author Share Posted April 8, 2005 Titus 3:4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, [how?] [:"red"]not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness[/], but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly [where?] in Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God may be careful to engage in good deeds. There it is....The gospel is what Christ did in His doing and dying. The fruit is what comes after receiving the gospel. Wrong gospel - self-righteous fruit! Right gospel - genuine fruit.... The subject here is the gospel....Please stay with that subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 8, 2005 Author Share Posted April 8, 2005 -BC- 1SM -TI- Selected Messages Book 1 -CN- 34 -CT- The Word Made Flesh -PR- 03 -PG- 250 By His obedience [not yours] to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for men. This [redemption] was not done by going out of Himself to another.... Please note that God didn't save you by coming to live in you, i.e., "by going out of Himself to another"....Yes the Spirit of Christ lives in your heart after you receive the gospel, but this is not how God saved you....Then how? ...by taking humanity into Himself. Thus Christ gave to humanity an existence out of Himself. To bring humanity [:"red"]into Christ[/], to bring the fallen race into oneness with divinity, is the work of redemption. The work of redemption is what Christ as God did in our fallen humanity. That humanity belongs to you and me. He took it and in doing so He redeemed it....That's the gospel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 8, 2005 Author Share Posted April 8, 2005 Quote: Those who oppose the gospel will join Babylon (if they are not there already!) Beloved, believe not every spirit [living person], but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ [:"red"]is come in the flesh*[:"black"] is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: [:"red"]and this is that spirit of antichrist[/], whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. [1 John 4:1-3] * flesh - [Greek: Sarx] "the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 8, 2005 Author Share Posted April 8, 2005 -BC- LHU -TI- Lift Him Up -CN- 11 -CT- Lift Him Up as Our Advocate and Infallible Judge -PR- 06 -PG- 345 In Christ were united the divine and the human --the Creator and the creature. What human? The humanity of Adam before the fall or after? The nature of God, whose law had been transgressed, and the nature of Adam, the transgressor, meet in Jesus--the Son of God, and the Son of man. And having with His own blood paid the price of redemption.... Now did Christ as God just assume our fallen nature or did He assume us? -BC- FLB -TI- The Faith I Live By -CN- 2 -CT- The Three Dignitaries of Heaven -PR- 03 -PG- 51 Humanity died: divinity did not die. Where did Christ as God assume our fallen life? Answer: From Mary! What does that have to do with me? Well where did you come from? Please don't say your mother because at some point we are going to get back to Adam. Remember even Eve came from Adam (look it up). All of us, male and female, share Adam's fallen life. We are bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. We share his fallen life. That is why we are considered sinners by conception (see Ps 51:5) and not only by outward sins. -BC- FW -TI- Faith and Works -CN- 11 -CT- Obedience and Sanctification -PR- 03 -PG- 88 We have reason for ceaseless gratitude to God that Christ, by His perfect obedience, has won back the heaven that Adam lost through disobedience. Adam sinned, and the children of Adam share his guilt [condemnation] and its consequences [eternal death]; but Jesus bore the guilt [condemnation] of Adam, and all the children of Adam that will flee to Christ, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Quote: Quote: "He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. " Rom 2:7 NLT That is not the gospel! Since you insist on choosing different parts of God's book you wish to either eliminate or ignore to fit your understanding of the Gospel of salvation, we cannot come to any agreement in discussing the Word. [:"red"] "...and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll " [/] Revelation 22:19-23 YLT While this text was written primarily to apply to the words of the Revelation written by John on the isle of Patmos, there is no doubt in my mind that God inspired them also as a warning for a time when men would feel free to disassemble the words of Scripture to suit their own purposes. [:"red"] "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" [/] 2 Timothy 3:16 KJV Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted April 8, 2005 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2005 Quote: Quote: The Gospel includes, according to Jesus, these things: No Dave...NO!!! That is what is wrong with Adventism....150 years in the wilderness - just like the Jews! That is not the gospel.... Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions [unbelievers], made us alive together with Christ [:"red"](by grace you have been saved)[/], 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, [:"red"]in Christ Jesus[/].... That is the gospel - "in Christ"! Not "in Christ" + good works. Those who oppose the gospel will join Babylon (if they are not there already!) 7 in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works Verse 10 speaks of the fruit of accepting the gospel....Fruit bearing is not the gospel! The subject here on this post is the gospel....Please stay on the subject. Rob [:"blue"]The ENTIRE plan of salvation is the Good News, the HEART of which is the life, death, & resurrection of Christ. Is it not Good News that God's universe runs on law instead of random processes that evolution contends? Is it not Good News that God condemns & punishes evildoing and cannot countenance evil in His perfect universe? Is it not Good News that God is no respecter of persons, that He is not partial to the rich & powerful? Is not the "Blessed Hope" of Jesus coming again very very Good News? Is not the destruction of Satan & all that is evil in the lake of fire Good News? Is not the fact God has the power to change evil people into saints Good News? Is it not Good News that someday soon God will recreate, renovate & renew this cesspool of a planet? The Gospel is not only a message from God, it is ABOUT God, Rom 1:1; 1 Pe 4:17; 1 Tim 1:11. EVERYTHING God does & about God, Robert, IS Good News![/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted April 8, 2005 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2005 Quick one: The gospel is about freedom: first from death, then from sin. Everything else fits under that. Analogy: Jesus gave the 2 commandments, and they encompass everything else. But that wasn't explicit enough for some people, so God also gave the 10 commandments, and all the law and the prophets, and the whole Bible... They're all part of the gospel, and it's basically an individual thing whether one can understand it all in its compact, implicit form or wants it spelled out more. but yeah, Gerry, all the stuff you listed above is fantastic news, and needs to be proclaimed. But if we forget to proclaim freedom, we miss it all. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted April 8, 2005 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2005 Quote: Quote: Quick one: The gospel is about freedom: first from death, then from sin. Everything else fits under that. Analogy: Jesus gave the 2 commandments, and they encompass everything else. But that wasn't explicit enough for some people, so God also gave the 10 commandments, and all the law and the prophets, and the whole Bible... They're all part of the gospel, and it's basically an individual thing whether one can understand it all in its compact, implicit form or wants it spelled out more. but yeah, Gerry, all the stuff you listed above is fantastic news, and needs to be proclaimed. But if we forget to proclaim freedom, we miss it all. [:"blue"]Bravus, the list on my last post was not meant to be exhaustive. As I said, the Gospel is a much larger than we can imagine. It's like a large diamond, and each of us are just seeing one or a few facets of it, or like the elephant that the blind men of Hindustan were trying to describe. My short list was just a teaser for Robert to expand his gospel horizons. If you notice my 3rd post on this thread, I quoted Lk 4:18,19, which includes: "liberty to the captives.... & to set at liberty those who are oppressed." But thanks for the input. [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 8, 2005 Author Share Posted April 8, 2005 Quote: Quick one: The gospel is about freedom: first from death, then from sin. Everything else fits under that. The Bible doesn't teach that! If you think you are free from sin you are mistaken (no, deceived!) When we receive our new life that resides "in Him" then that will be good news. But again, isn't that the gospel or the "in Christ" truth? Yes....The gospel is what Christ did, period. Quote: Analogy: Jesus gave the 2 commandments, and they encompass everything else. But that wasn't explicit enough for some people, so God also gave the 10 commandments..... No, Christ gave the law so that man might know he is a sinner. The law was never given as a means of salvation - not even partially. It was to expose sin to make it exceedingly sinful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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