Inalienable Rights

[bonnie]

im sorry if you thought i have in any way show u unkindness

im stating a fact

Quote:

'straight couples shacking up can get married if both parties agree for any reason and no one can tell them they cant'

and God offers dignity and respect for all humans

Jesus showed that and it baffled people like you

Jesus did not show respect and dignity for what he called a abomination and blessing a union based on that. So nope,your claiming he did does not baffle me. As I don't believe God did show respect for gay marriage I am not sure why you campaign so strongly for something you know God does not sanction.

You were calling those that disagreed with you fools and unchristian before I posted so I did not take it personally.

[Parade Orange]

God has shown dignity and respect for all sinners

repentant and non repentant

the term fool was used addressing people who dont bow their knees to God with love to HIM and others understanding God gave life and choices to all humans

im talking about rights for all humans that God gave at birth and The UNITED STATES of AMERICA says it gives to its citezens

im not addressing the sin and its consequences

that is dont plentifully in other forums

it is noted what u think of homosexuals and their derserving of dignity and their rights

U seem to be waiting for me to pull up scripture tro proove God gives dignity and respect for homosexuals.

You have got to be joking

and please dont reply

im not interested and will not address u

and u have rancor in your heart toward me and gays

GOD Forgive u

[BobRyan]

the difrence between CIVIL UNIONS n MARRIAGE across the united states

Social Security

workplace benefits

immigration

military benefits

federal tax returns

health insurance

federal protection

Societal/Culteral/Familial/Religious Respect and Boundries

Veterens Benefits/Government Pension

over 1,000 benefits across the United States of America being Married

only over 300 for Civil Unions for those particular States that recognize The Unions

so some of you fools think that offering gays civil unions is the same as marriage?

think again

Gays are humans and deserve every dignity and respect

and if u say u are a christian without understanding that ...

Go to the CROSS and see how lacking u are in LOVE to thy Neighbors as thyself who believe YOU deserve every dignity and respect for your own family and spouses

You are missing the entire point of the Christian POV when it comes to gay marriage.

The issue is not "who is a person" or "who is a human" or "who did God die for".

WE all agree that all people are humans, all are people, and God died for all. To continually circle back to that point is not moving the discussion along.

The key issue to be addressed from the Bible stand point - is whether or not we are talking about sin, about doing wrong.

Surely we would not think of offering drug dealers "marriage benefits" simply because they deal drugs. It makes no sense to take a particular sin and delcare that the practice of that sin should have some kind of civil reward or benefit.

That is the point that must be addressed if you want to make headway on a Christian discussion board when it comes to the subject of gay anything.

in Christ,

Bob

[Dr. Shane]

Allowing gay marriage is giving gays special rights, not civil rights. Now if we as a society want to give gays special rights, I don't have a problem doing that at the ballot box or through the legislative branch like what happened in New York. I do not think judges should be the people granting these special rights to gays.

To be clear, the rights a person receives from heterosexual marriage are also available to gays. They just have to marry someone from the opposite sex - they can still be gay if they want to be. If they do the same behavior, they get the same benefits. There is no discrimination.

[Parade Orange]

we disagree

thats not news

[Parade Orange]

no one here gets my point

perhaps someone here who is a wordsmith can better explain what im saying

u dont have to agree just understand the point im making

[teresaq]

Allowing gay marriage is giving gays special rights, not civil rights.

I don't really understand your reasoning. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know what you base your opinion on.

[teresaq]

Apparently no one knows how, or if, polygamy, homosexual practice, or homosexual marriage would affect negatively the rights of others. Maybe it doesn't...

When it comes to polygamy, homosexuals, and homosexual marriage, how do their inalienable rights affect others? Or do they affect anyone other than the parties involved?

[Parade Orange]

BTW

i am a christian (my friends here know that)

im coming from a pure rightouse graceful christian perspective

for the christians on a christian message board

[Dr. Shane]

I don't really understand your reasoning. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know what you base your opinion on.

There are different kinds of rights. There are human rights, civil rights and special rights. I put those in order of importance.

Human rights are something that universally all humans throughout the world should have. For example, the right to religious liberty is a human right. The right to be free (not a slave) is a human right. The right not to be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment is a human right. The right to have access to a nation's judicial system is a human right.

Civil rights are something that comes from a government. The right to vote is a civil right in democratic countries. The right to own private property is a right in capitalist countries. The right to not be subjected to racial discrimination is a civil right.

Special rights are rights that are granted to only certain groups of people. Military veterans in the US have the right to use VA clinics, hospitals and access to other veteran benefits. Racial minorities have the right to an extra-layer of protection provided by hate laws. Low income people have a right to certain welfare programs.

If we grant a gay person to marry someone of their same sex, that is a special right. They already have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. That is a universal human right provided under the umbrella of religious liberty. However if we also give them the option of marrying someone of the same sex, that would be a special right - not a human right or a civil right.

The gay community wants to cast themselves as victims. Yet they have all the same human and civil rights as everyone else in society. It is true they cannot marry someone of the same sex but neither can I or anyone else. They can marry someone of the opposite sex just as anyone else can. They have the right to vote, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, the right to bear arms, the right to own private property and on and on. They are not denied any of the rights that the rest of society has.

[Dr. Shane]

Apparently no one knows how, or if, polygamy, homosexual practice, or homosexual marriage would affect negatively the rights of others. Maybe it doesn't...

It threatens religious liberty. In one case a Catholic adoption agency was forced to either close its doors or start placing children with same-sex couples. The agency decided to close its doors. In another case, a printing shop owned by a Catholic was ordered to print wedding invitations for a gay couple.

[Parade Orange]

Shane you got to get new material

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

I don't really understand your reasoning. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know what you base your opinion on.

...

Special rights are rights that are granted to only certain groups of people. Military veterans in the US have the right to use VA clinics, hospitals and access to other veteran benefits. Racial minorities have the right to an extra-layer of protection provided by hate laws. Low income people have a right to certain welfare programs.

[Parade Orange]

YES EXACTLY TERESAQ(SDA)

it is a human right

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

Apparently no one knows how, or if, polygamy, homosexual practice, or homosexual marriage would affect negatively the rights of others. Maybe it doesn't...

It threatens religious liberty. In one case a Catholic adoption agency was forced to either close its doors or start placing children with same-sex couples. The agency decided to close its doors. In another case, a printing shop owned by a Catholic was ordered to print wedding invitations for a gay couple.

How many of these cases are there? Then I would want to check out both sides.

I am torn and have been for some time. This is something I want to study out completely before I decide one way or another, tho I'm not sure I should have any say...

[teresaq]

YES EXACTLY TERESAQ(SDA)

it is a human right

I'm not ignoring you, just haven't thought of any responses to your posts. I can see this is really important to you, tho.

[Parade Orange]

Originally Posted By: Parade Orange

YES EXACTLY TERESAQ(SDA)

it is a human right

I'm not ignoring you, just haven't thought of any responses to your posts. I can see this is really important to you, tho.

Yes cause its an issue very close to my heart!

and thankyou for saying that

GOD BLESS YOU

if u really want to help me out i would be eternally grateful and mirror back to me with your eloquent speech

what i am trying to convey to my peers here

u know

all humans are loved by HIM and commands us to love each over as ourselves along Loving HIM with our whole being ...

{love the sinner hate the sin stuff)

and gays are humans and that in itself qualifies them rights as free agents that GOD granted us to pursue our life with HIM or without HIM or HIS

DECLARATION/RULES/DECREES/PROMISES

they dont address that point with CHRISTIAN HEARTS

if not its OK!

maybe someone else can help me out

[teresaq]

As soon as I understand better what you are trying to say I will gladly "translate" to the best of my ability, at least on the forums I participate in. I need to study how you speak first to get the hang of it. :)

[John317]

Parade,

Please send me a PM with what you are saying here.

[Parade Orange]

ok ty

[Parade Orange]

hi JOHN317

for a moment lets take the sin element out of it just to sit and mull over a few aspects

FIRST POINT

GOD created Adam the freedom of choice

and Adam chose to do his own thing with it

Cain

Moses

David

Judas

Peter

Herod did too

every person on earth can live their life and make big and little life choices for or against

God grants them life for a short time and they do what they will

its a choice to basically live Grow up get food and get a job get a spouse make children ..rent a dog -whatever

We dont agree with eacj others choices but so what! they dont agree with ours

GOD gives us choices and who and what to be and DOSENT STAND IN OUR WAY

Its not my right to deny others choices outside of criminal activity

to give eac other dignity and respect cause God gave us Dignity and respect such as he gave ... Adam after he sinned and ect ect ect

the consequences of sin is another matter entirely that im not addressing here cause its don to death everywhere else

the Second Point is

In the USA we have the constition protecting human rights recognizing God gives us choices and life liberty and the pursuit of happiness

(pretty impressive for it time)

Civil Rights dont diffeeitiate between classes and such

whatever u are or look like or choices you make- u have the right to the american dream like everyone else

and civil marriage is tiny crumbs compared to the giant loaf of bread of LEGAL marriage when it comes to pursuring your life and using GOD GIVEN CHOICES in the united states

and it is CHRISTIAN (OUT OF LOVE SEEING OTHERS AS THEMSELVES) to recognize ....TO LOOK AT GAYS AS yourselves cause we all are human

i will throw this in to unpeel my thoughts a lil more:

i dont agree with the greed lifestyle but i wont take their human rights a way

i dont agree with the character assasinater lifestyle

i dont agree with the drunk or fornicator or the faithless

i dont agree with the excessive hobby,tv,internet,shopping,gambling,self worshipping, over indulgence,nosey,condeming lifestyle that throws u and your family off balance and neglect GOD lifestyle

but i will not deny them their choices on who to spend time with in any capacity they choose to

its unchristian to lord over someone elses life

and it screamS IM A CHRISTIAN AND I HATE YOU to millions

well there ya go!u may not agree! but u can say that then go into it with your gift of talking here in this format

GOOD LUCK

_________________________

All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD

"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25

That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.

[bonnie]

for a moment lets take the sin element out of it just to sit and mull over a few aspects

FIRST POINT

GOD created Adam the freedom of choice

and Adam chose to do his own thing with it

Cain

Moses

David

Judas

Peter

Herod did too

every person on earth can live their life and make big and little life choices for or against

God grants them life for a short time and they do what they will

its a choice to basically live Grow up get food and get a job get a spouse make children ..rent a dog -whatever

We dont agree with eacj others choices but so what! they dont agree with ours

GOD gives us choices and who and what to be and DOSENT STAND IN OUR WAY

to give eac other dignity and respect cause God gave us Dignity and respect such as he gave ... Adam after he sinned and ect ect ect

[doug yowell]

There are various issues involved in your statements here, but lets determine how same-sex "marriage", or "civil union" would infringe on my, or anyone else's, right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

First, the question itself,when posed in defense of extolling the virtues of homosexual behavior, is of the same cloth as the "has God said?"...question previously posed by someone in the Garden of Eden. God has been clear in His Word that homosexual behavior is viewed by Him as rebellion against His created order and will be eventually met with the death penalty. Those who attempt to pass off homosexual activity as normal, or morally benign, having no effect on the lives and happiness of others, attempt to portray God (and anyone who believes Him)as either a liar or a dupe. However, the question,when posed from an honest desire to understand the truth about the effects of certain behavior's on the general population, is a really good one.

I'll try to break this up to make it more readable. Long posts have a tendency to lose me and I'm gonna have to fit it around the rest of my schedule.

[skyblue888]

There is no shame associated with being gays anymore. Why is that? Could it be that "Sin has become a science and vice a virtue?" According to the law of God, homosexuality is immoral. It is an abomination to God. "You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is an abomination." Lev.18:22; Rom.1:26,27.

The question is, Can politicians legalize immorality? If I understand what the Bible teaches, the State has no more right to legalize immorality than it can punish immorality. The State deals with civility and incivility and not with morality or immorality.

It is immoral for the State to legalize immorality especially for political purposes. That can only bring the displeasure of God upon a nation.

sky

[doug yowell]

Quote:

It threatens religious liberty. In one case a Catholic adoption agency was forced to either close its doors or start placing children with same-sex couples. The agency decided to close its doors. In another case, a printing shop owned by a Catholic was ordered to print wedding invitations for a gay couple.

This is a prime example of the immediate effects of compromising the unique relationship between one man and one woman. Once homosexuality finds support it immediately seeks to force others to recognize it's legitimacy. It employs the force of the government to attempt to eradicate any dissent or opposition to it's agenda, and it's victims are the public in general. Notice who will suffer as a result of Catholic Charities being forced out of the adoption arena? Notice who the gay rights activists were not concerned with? If these two examples were the only examples one might rightly be concerned but when you begin to add up the overwhelming number of like incidents the picture should become crystal clear.

How many boycotts have the gay "rights" activists employed in order to force private parties into compliance with their agenda? Remember the Boy Scouts of America? Though the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of the BSA"s right to keep out OPENLY gay leaders the movement was still able to pressure the City of San Diego into kicking them out of government owned facilities because of their "discriminating" policies (of course, this discriminated against those who held traditional views on sexual morality, but, no mind,government must not attempt to force morality,right?). Note who was "unaffected" by this governmental decision? Note who was now labeled as the "bad guys" and who suddenly becomes the "good guys"?

THe fact that the sym(pathetic)and supportive media fails to accurately report, or report at all, these cases is also a good indicator on how I/we are all affected by this question.And all these happenings occur WITHOUT the legal inclusion of same sex MARRIAGE!!

And there's more...