teresaq Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I started the thread and the op determined the direction...I would say that you and others are the "guilty" party in "manipulating the discussion". I asked what rights, etc.... Apart from that, for all intents and purposes "inalienable rights nor religious liberty" are confined to the legal forum of the US, not any other country(ies). In other words we do not try to force other countries to live according to our D of R. In other words, the op did not ask what are the universal rights of all "men", as one might understand it. I respect that for you this is how you categorize the issues re same-sex marriage, but you are trying to impose that on me, and I do not appreciate it. This thread is entitled "Inalienable Rights" and it is in the "Religious Liberty Issues" forum. Neither inalienable rights nor religious liberty are confined within man-made political borders. If we are going to discuss this things, let's not artificially try to manipulate the discussion. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Sure. As soon as you answer this, Originally Posted By: Shane It threatens religious liberty. In one case a Catholic adoption agency was forced to either close its doors or start placing children with same-sex couples. The agency decided to close its doors. In another case, a printing shop owned by a Catholic was ordered to print wedding invitations for a gay couple. How many of these cases are there? Then I would want to check out both sides. I am torn and have been for some time. This is something I want to study out completely before I decide one way or another, tho I'm not sure I should have any say... Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Lets be clear that you are defining, etc., as you understand it. To play the game for a minute, as ParadeOrange pointed out, God has also given man the right to disobey His direct orders. That has included religious persecution in this country, up to and after the D of R. Enslaving one's fellowman, calling them subhuman, refusing them the right to marry even among themselves, and til relatively recently caucasians. "Human rights come from God", says Shane. Ok, that includes the right to disobey the laws as set down in the "good book". We are talking about the difference between human rights, civil rights and special rights. I haven't jumped the track once in this discussion. Human rights, civil rights and special rights. Human rights are not dependent on the civil government. Human rights cross international borders. Human rights come from God. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 let me try another approach have a blantent gay man ever looked into your eyes and see GODS LOVE for them as they are where they sit regardless of their choices Do they know they are Cherished by HIM by your conduct and words? Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 You are right PO. I know that there are some here who blatantly break the 9th commandment. If they were able to look into my eyes they would not see "GODS LOVE" for them. I think your point is that we need to be careful how we respond...Our overriding need to "program" some possible watching public should not come at the expense of misrepresenting Christ. Jesus did say that the "publicans and harlots" would enter the Kingdom before the (almost) doctrinally correct would. To whom it applies, Please forgive me the many, many times I have responded to you without the love of Jesus for you. This has been and will be one of those "70 x 7" struggles I am going through. let me try another approach have a blantent gay man ever looked into your eyes and see GODS LOVE for them as they are where they sit regardless of their choices Do they know they are Cherished by HIM by your conduct and words? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 let me try another approach have a blantent gay man ever looked into your eyes and see GODS LOVE for them as they are where they sit regardless of their choices Do they know they are Cherished by HIM by your conduct and words? Your assumption that anyone that disagrees with your campaign to make "gay marriage" a right is somehow less than christian puts you in the same unloving camp as you judge others to be. Most of us that have been in the workplace interact frequently with gays. I don't think where I worked is unique.We had many acknowledged gays.Most were workplace friends with hetersexuals. We went to lunch together and would meet for dinner outside of work.I can't recall but two that were avoided. Their behaviour created their problems. Two of my closest friends are lesbians. We have remained friends for over thirty years. They do not insist I accept their lifestyle and champion gay marriage.I don't insist they agree with me. We both know where the other stands and respect that. The constant condemnation of those that do not champion gay marriage as a right and labeling all those that oppose you as smacks of "Thank you God I am not like them". Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 23, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 23, 2011 I know that there are some here who blatantly break the 9th commandment. If they were able to look into my eyes they would not see "GODS LOVE" for them. There are a lot of gays and trans [and sometimes people merely perceived to be gays] who are beat up or even killed. It is widely considered OK to make fun of them or even to threaten them in some way. It is often done while other people look on and say or do nothing except maybe laugh. I believe much of this attitude is due at least in part to the fact that people understand that gays aren't given the same respect by society as other people. The church needs to do a much better job of communicating to its members that while the practice of homosexuality is a sin, God loves gays and wants us to treat them with the same dignity and thoughtfulness with which we treat others. We can be sure that Jesus would. People need to think how they would want to be treated if they themselves were gay. We can do all these things-- including loving others-- without participating in their sins. If Jesus did it, can't we do it too? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 im not so much on champianing gay rights to marry im more on champianing they are humans and deserve every dignity and respect that The USA thinks it gives and GOD does GIVE there is a difference u see me fighting against GOD and i see you fighting agaisnt His people we possibly are both wrong about each others ideas of each other on this matter thanku for your gay friendly examples in and out of work! i didnt think u went around with a whistle stirring up the rebels with hayforks against the gaggles of lezbiens though u still havent said what they see when they look into your eyes let me share a something about me i do watch conduct and words to see what kind of person u are i need to watch my words for sure when i get heated and sometimes i just say nothing at all cause it wont look right it will look like regirgitation of every bum thought ive iver had with grace and mercy spoiliage running thru with slamming doors! and it wont make sense I type slow with one or two fingers and have millions of thoughts to the one being slowly typed out! and i sense the people's spirit in the words chosen when addressing a human being and react ! if its someone i feel easy with i will better explain myself in this format! and with people who are very disagreeable and combative i tend to shut down and not able to clearly state my thoughts it has plagued me all my life for both good and evil in my life good is cause i learn to listen to my gut about peopole i dont know motives or thoughts of others all i know how they look at me in conversation as child i was very aware im very perseptive of eyes and body language and to listen very very carefully to the words they choose when talking about someone or some thing and those three things tell me how they LOOOK at me and i respond without conscience about it my mind sees it and opens up or shuts down and when its down i am not in a freeing envirement i feel bound which isnt a good thing but it has helped me in befriending people and to know who can i talk to and who i cant its a bad thing when your a YOUNG CHRISTIAN MAN selling BIBLE STORY BOOKS in the 80's and the customer is quite but listening but hostile or bored underneath and i sense it! its hard to get the sale after the initial NO by people and i couldnt ever get my wits around me to switch gears and resale or overcome the objections! so it has worked against me too _________________________ i need to look at JESUS when my thoughts get tied up and tummy churns and thats my bad and im sorry if u feel threatened or offended and it looks like we arent probly gonna change each others mind and agree to to disagree cause i come here for entertianment and learning and meeting fellow SDA CHRISTIANS and to be heard too not to have a constant tiff with u Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 23, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 23, 2011 ...Two of my closest friends are lesbians. We have remained friends for over thirty years. They do not insist I accept their lifestyle and champion gay marriage.I don't insist they agree with me. We both know where the other stands and respect that. Good point. People must be able to be friends and loving toward each other while disagreeing about some issues. That's extremely important. We all have different views and opinions. That shouldn't make us less civil and less loving toward each other. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 i agree Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't know why you included my post since I was not referring to homosexuals but those who break the 9th commandment and encourage others to do so-on this board. Aside from that I agree 100% with your post and believe that is what paradeorange is trying to get across. Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) I know that there are some here who blatantly break the 9th commandment. If they were able to look into my eyes they would not see "GODS LOVE" for them. There are a lot of gays and trans [and sometimes people merely perceived to be gays] who are beat up or even killed. It is widely considered OK to make fun of them or even to threaten them in some way. It is often done while other people look on and say or do nothing except maybe laugh. I believe much of this attitude is due at least in part to the fact that people understand that gays aren't given the same respect by society as other people. The church needs to do a much better job of communicating to its members that while the practice of homosexuality is a sin, God loves gays and wants us to treat them with the same dignity and thoughtfulness with which we treat others. We can be sure that Jesus would. People need to think how they would want to be treated if they themselves were gay. We can do all these things-- including loving others-- without participating in their sins. If Jesus did it, can't we do it too? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 im not so much on champianing gay rights to marry im more on champianing they are humans and deserve every dignity and respect that The USA thinks it gives and GOD does GIVE Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 well if they were were to look in my eyes and see me camming them fool and unchristian they would see dissapointment anger aborhance and then they would get defencive terror would strike and run and hide or put up their dukes! (or some would just YAWN) i do se your point and i have aplogized twice and i will again im sorry point taken ! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted August 23, 2011 Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 But PO, I haven't read anyone posting, that has called anybody "fool and unchristian" Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Apart from that, for all intents and purposes "inalienable rights nor religious liberty" are confined to the legal forum of the US, not any other country(ies). In other words we do not try to force other countries to live according to our D of R. In other words, the op did not ask what are the universal rights of all "men", as one might understand it. I'm not sure what you're trying to convey here. "Unalienable rights granted by the Creator" indicates universal and not indigenous. The Declaration of Independence is a statement recognizing that those rights can be universally understood and appeals to their self-evident nature in order to justify the reaction that the former colonies will take in response to their being violated. This is a case of the U.S. attempting to force England to recognize and respect those rights.We also have a history of non-cooperation with countries that don't recognize those same rights. What exactly are you trying to clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 But PO, I haven't read anyone posting, that has called anybody "fool and unchristian" "Looooook deep into his eyes"....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Originally Posted By: pkrause But PO, I haven't read anyone posting, that has called anybody "fool and unchristian" "Looooook deep into his eyes"....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 But PO, I haven't read anyone posting, that has called anybody "fool and unchristian" Then you missed it Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 well if they were were to look in my eyes and see me camming them fool and unchristian they would see dissapointment anger aborhance and then they would get defencive terror would strike and run and hide or put up their dukes! (or some would just YAWN) i do se your point and i have aplogized twice and i will again im sorry point taken ! I did not ask for an apology.Apologies are a great gesture but not when the implication and questions do not show a change of direction. You simply cannot accept that a christian can disagree with you. Their christianity must be questioned because to disagree with you is unchristian Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I started the thread and the op determined the direction... Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Until someone can answer my question, there is no validity to comparing the gay movement's desire to have gay marriage to the civil rights movement by blacks against segregation. Which religious organizations taught that it was sinful to send your children to a desegregated school or eat dinner in a desegregated cafe? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 God has also given man the right to disobey His direct orders. You will have to show me where God has given us the right to disobey. My Bible says the souls that sinneth will die. I see no right to sin given in my Bible. I am not aware of other religions that teach that God gives mankind the right to disobey Him. The religions I have studied basically teach - disobey and suffer the consequences. No permission and certainly no right is given to disobey. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 let me try another approach have a blantent gay man ever looked into your eyes and see GOD'S LOVE for them as they are where they sit regardless of their choices Do they know they are Cherished by HIM by your conduct and words? In my case I can answer Absolutely! A couple of my FB friends that I interact with most are gay. I think they very much understand how much I love them. I ran a gay outreach ministry for three years while in college. On two different occasions I had a gay roommate. I have hugged gays - two which I knew were infected with full-blown AIDS - and prayed with gays. My heart goes out to them. I covet their souls for Jesus. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 im glad to hear u on your affection for gays Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 i have alot of christian friends and i know many of them love JESUS and disagree on this matter and others i of course understand they can be christian without agreeing with me i know we dont know each other and have ideas about each other that are most certainly seem egregious but u have told me u a lil about yourself and i have told you a lil about myself so what do we do now? Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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