OMEGA of Apostasy - what do you think it is?

[BobRyan]

The SDA church has long known that the book "The Living Temple" by Harvey Kellogg was called the "Alpha of Apostasy" by our early SDA pioneers in the 19th century.

At that time Ellen White also predicted that there would come an "OMEGA" of apostasy at some point in the future.

On that point John317 makes this observation.

Quote:

John317 said

Jesus' use of "the Alpha and the Omega" is different from Ellen White's use of those words. Ellen White is talking about deadly heresies, whereas Christ is saying that He is the beginning and the ending. He is everything. In both cases, it refers to completeness, but beyond that, it doesn't have any relationship.

Notice that Ellen White talks about "deadly heresies," not "a deadly heresy." The acceptance of the Alpha of deadly heresies leads to many heresies, not merely to a single heresy. The Alpha, if accepted, would have caused SDAs to discard the platform on which the pillars of our faith stand.

Since Ellen White sent out the Testimonies and met the Alpha of deadly heresies, does this mean that we can relax with the assurance that the Omega is nowhere in sight?

So that brings up the question as to what ideas those on this section of the board may have as to just what is the OMEGA of apostasy.

My response to John317

Excellent points all - and in 3SG 9-91 Ellen White calls the evolutionism fallacy "the worst form of infidelity" as it destroys not only Adventism but Christianity itself. A point about Christianity that Darwin fully admits.

Your quoted text included this - "a dangerous production; for in the book is taught an insinuating, deceptive science of Satanic origin" --

That quote is more than a little instructive - for the unbiased objective reader.

Thank you John317 for posting it here. Your posts - always welcomed.

Equally instructive on the particular suggestion I make about the much predicted OMEGA of apostasy - is that Darwin himself admits the role that evolutionism still plays in that regard.

May all have a blessed Sabbath memorial of Creation week today as they think about this important point.

Hopefully my comment to John317 above will be tolerated on this area of the board...

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

When Kellogg was confronted with the charges of pantheism, he flatly denied it, and to add to that, he BEGGED those who accused him to point out what texts or statements in his book that he could edit or remove. They never answered him.

[Dr. Waite]

Bob:

I cannot find a quote by Ellen G. White where she uses the term "Omega of Apostasy". Do you have such a quote from her?

[BobRyan]

On of the (apparently now edited/deleted) comments on another section of the board suggested that the OMEGA might be the problem of "Spiritual Formation" being taught in some areas of the denomination.

However I would ask that you compare what it would take to totally stop/wipe-out/delete that problem from the church today?

All you would need is a leadership decision to ban it and presto! It vanishes!

There is presidential election where the candidates are asked "do you BELIEVE in spiritual formation and if not then you cannot be a serious candidate for president of the United States" as in the case of evolution.

There would be no "WASC will not accredit your university unless you teach Spiritual Formation" as some have wildly claimed for evolutionism in the case of some of our own universities.

The problems dealing with the errors in evolutionism are far more entrenched, far more difficult than just saying "ok just stop teaching it over there".

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Bob:

I cannot find a quote by Ellen G. White where she uses the term "Omega of Apostasy". Do you have such a quote from her?

[Dr. Waite]

Bob:

Your thread entitled "Omega of Apostasy", implies that there is an apostasy, NOT a heresy.

The definition is: "Apostasy (apostasia), a defection or revolt, apo, "away, apart", , stasis, "stand", "standing") is the formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person."

WHEREAS, the definition of "heresy" is: "Heresy which originally meant "choice" is a controversial or novel change to a system of beliefs, especially a religion, that conflicts with established dogma.[1] It is distinct from apostasy, which is the formal denunciation of one's religion, principles or cause,[2] and blasphemy, which is irreverence toward religion.[3] The founder or leader of a heretical movement is called a heresiarch, while individuals who espouse heresy or commit heresy, are known as heretics."

[BobRyan]

You are parsing between "abandonment or renunciation" of truth "depart from the faith" -- whereby rejection of existing truth, reproofs, pillars is being address and contrasting that to the "controversial or novel change" which is the NEW thing that is being grasped in exchange for the old truths being discarded.

You are parsing at a level that results in a "distinction without a difference" when you look at the overal picture.

Kellogg was tossing out the firm ground already established both in the nature of God and the role of Ellen White as a prophet sent by God - and exchanging it for his novel new ideas about God in a more pantheistic setting. Ellen White then goes into detail as to what pillars of the truth were being exchanged in so doing.

The same is true of evolutionism - it not only introduces a new model for what God did as Creator - it also tosses out the existing pillars of the faith.

The methods are very similar today as then.

Quote:

Sometimes our physicians talk for hours, when they are weary and perplexed, and in no fit condition to talk. Medical missionaries should refuse to hold long night sessions of conversation. These night talks have been times when Satan with his seductive influence has stolen away from one and then another the faith once delivered to the saints. Brilliant, sparkling ideas often flash from a mind that is influenced by the great deceiver.

Those who listen and acquiesce will become charmed, as Eve was charmed by the serpent’s words. They cannot listen to charming philosophical speculations, and at the same time keep the word of the living God clearly in mind. {1SM 197.1}

Our physicians have lost a great deal out of their lives because they have seen wrong transactions and heard wrong words spoken, and seen wrong principles followed, and have not spoken in reproof, for fear that they would be repulsed. {1SM 197.2}

I call upon those who have been connected with these binding influences to break the yoke to which they have long submitted, and stand as free men in Christ. Nothing but a determined effort will break the spell that is upon them. {1SM 197.3}

Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature. {1SM 197.4}

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Bob:

Your thread entitled "Omega of Apostasy", implies that there is an apostasy, NOT a heresy.

If you look at the details in my prior post you will find that apostasy and heresy go hand in hand in the case of the "Living temple" and I would say the same thing regarding evolution.

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

"Medical missionaries should refuse to hold long night sessions of conversation."

I wonder when and where else that principle might apply?

"Brilliant, sparkling ideas often flash from a mind that is influenced by the great deceiver." "Those who listen and acquiesce will become charmed, as Eve was charmed by the serpent’s words. They cannot listen to charming philosophical speculations..."

Wow, theres some counsel worthy of deeper consideration.

[phkrause]

A great topic Bob. Very interesting comments and thoughts by you and John. I've never heard or even thought about what EGW meant on this topic. After reading a little of this, I'm in total agreement with your thoughts.

[Gerr]

What if the omega of apostasy is the rejection of the gift that God graciously gave to His end-time church?

[olger]

Spiritual Formation and its chauffeured vehicle - the "Emerging Church" are certainly Alaskan pipelines for dangerous spiritualism - of the kind that Ellen White warned us was coming.

Don't know if it is the Omega, but it is an accomplice at least, and the boss at worst.

It's time for the Remnant to remain.

[miz3]

Since this is such a major crisis in God's "Last Day Church (SDA)" why does the Bible not predict these very events and dangers to His Last Day People?

SDA claim that the Books of Daniel and Revelation predict with stunning preciseness their existence as the "Last Day Church" why wouldn't God's cherished apple of His eye be forewarned:

1. That these two dangers (alpha and omega) were coming?

and

2. Just exactly what those two dangers actually were?

[BobRyan]

In Matt 24 Christ said that in the last days we would be plagued by deceptions so great that "if possible would deceive the very elect".

In the problem of evolutionism - we have something that hits both mankind and SDAs. While this is a huge problems for SDAs - it is not the biggest problem mankind will face.

There is a kind of "Alpha" of deception for all mankind that you find in Genesis 3 with Eve.

There Satan employs four basic traps - sophistries - deceptions:

evolutionism "you shall become like god"

combined with spiritualism "you shall not surely die"

combined with pantheism "in this apple is God qualties that you can have by eating it".

combined with withcraft - communication with a demon.

That was a problem for Eve.

It is not unnreasonable to suggest that a combination of those four errors will take place at the end of time - only orders of magnitude greater signs and wonders so that if possible it would deceive the very elect.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Spiritual Formation and its chauffeured vehicle - the "Emerging Church" are certainly Alaskan pipelines for dangerous spiritualism

I agree that it is a bad thing - but it is also easy enough to kill. All leadership has to do say that they will not be allowing it any more. Nothing breaks if they do that.

[BobRyan]

What if the omega of apostasy is the rejection of the gift that God graciously gave to His end-time church?

Certainly that would be bad.

And if you think about it - that has to be a key part of the evolutionist agenda because Ellen White condemns Theistic Evolutionism as the worst form of infidelity in 3SG 90-91.

However when our present Church administrators (such as Ted Wilson) say that we will continue to affirm the prophetic ministry of Ellen White (as also did the GC 2010 session) -- still "nothing breaks". We can affirm her ministry and not be threatened with any lawsuits, school closings, accreditation battles, etc.

There is no requirement that our religion department study texts books that say "Ellen White is not a prophet". Nor is there any WASC or other accrediting body worried at all that our text books do not have a more popular "Ellen White is not a prophet" flavor.

By contrast - all of our biology and geology science text books at the University level include evolutionism.

in Christ,

Bob

[John317]

Ellen White did use the word "apostasy" in association with the Living Temple and the ideas of Dr. Kellogg concerning the Godhead. This is just one example. There are others:

Quote:

I feel intensely sorrowful when I see some of our brethren in Battle Creek taking a course that is leading them away from the truth: for I have had a presentation of the first apostasy in the heavenly courts. The warnings of the Holy Spirit have been disregarded, and there has been persistent work of deception. A. T. Jones has permitted himself to be used as the voice of Dr. J. H. Kellogg. {PC 331.1}

It is our privilege to believe in a personal Father, who has made a gift of His only Begotten Son, that a fallen world might repent, and accept of a personal Saviour, and be permitted to eat of the leaves of the tree of life. Thank God, we may uplift the Saviour before the people, as had been done at these meetings. The work will advance more and more, as we humble our hearts, and bring our wills in submission to God. Some will place themselves under Satan's rule, but we will not fail nor become discouraged. {PC 331.2}

Brother Kress, I am thankful that you have not been deceived by the representations of Dr. Kellogg. At the Berrien Springs meeting, the Lord showed me what He was willing to do for Dr. Kellogg. The most blessed invitation was given to Him. But the doctor wrenched himself away from the outstretched hand of Christ. It seemed that in the agony of my soul I should die. {PC 331.3}

I have seen how Dr. Kellogg has united with the arch deceiver in using hypnotic influence upon souls to deceive them. Those who sustain him in his course are guilty with him of resisting the Spirit of God. Such blindness of understanding seems strange in one who has known the truth for this time. {PC 331.4}

A. T. Jones has a theory of the truth, as expressed in his books. He does not repudiate these, but he virtually goes back upon their teachings, by the course of action he is following. {PC 331.5}

Dr. Kellogg places himself before the world in the position of one who is greatly abused. He writes many letters, as he has to you, making such a representation as would call forth sympathy. But he is still at work with all subtlety. I have felt compelled to warn our people: for they do not understand his cunning.

332

{PC 331.6}

I have seen that the leaders in the medical work in Battle Creek will try to secure possession of the Tabernacle. Their scheming is so subtle, that I greatly fear that this may be accomplished. {PC 332.1}

If Dr. Kellogg can destroy the faith of any of our people in the testimonies, he will do it. He sometimes takes the nurses and others, sometimes alone in the night season, and talks with them for hours framing a tissue of falsehood, to make them believe himself a much abused man. Some of these poor souls have heard the truth, and they wish to get out of Battle Creek. They realize that their safety consists in leaving the place where they are so deceived. The doctor will take advantage in every way to make an impression upon human minds in destroying all confidence in the testimonies. If we are not constantly on guard, he will destroy by his sophistries, if possible, the very elect. And those associates who have upheld him will have to answer before God for their individual course of action. {PC 332.2}

The messages of encouragement given to Dr. Kellogg have been many. They have been tender and true, but there have always been conditions involved. We might say much more than we do, but we do not wish to expose before the world the things we might say. But we should so far as possible overcome the impression that we sustain and honor one who follows such a course as has the doctor and his associates. Our only object in publishing any of those things has been to save some of our own people from being destroyed. {PC 332.3}

[John317]

Here's a quote from EGW where she refers to the "present apostasy" in association with The Living Temple:

Quote:

God has permitted the presentation of the combination of good and evil in "Living Temple" to be made to reveal the danger threatening us. The working that has been so ingeniously carried on he has permitted in order that certain developments might be made, and that it might be seen what a man can do with human minds when he has obtained their confidence as a physician. God has permitted the present crisis to come to open the eyes of those who desire to know the truth. He would have His people understand to what lengths the sophistry and devising of the enemy would lead. {SpTB07 36.2}

Men have given to our leading physician allegiance that is due to God alone; and he has been permitted to show what self-exaltation will lead men to do. Scientific, spiritualistic sentiments, representing the Creator as an essence pervading all nature, have been given to our people, and have been received even by some who have had a long experience as teachers in the word of God. The results of this insidious devising will break out again and again. There are many for whom special efforts will have to be put forth to free them from this specious deception. {SpTB07 36.3}

I am now authorized to say that the time has come to take decided action. The development seen in the cause of God is similar to the development seen when Balaam caused Israel to sin just before they entered the promised land. How dangerous it is so to exalt any man that he becomes confused, and confuses the minds of others in regard to the truths that for the last fifty years the Lord has been giving his people. {SpTB07 36.4}

Few can see the meaning of the present apostasy. But the Lord has lifted the curtain, and has shown me its meaning, and the result that it will have if allowed to continue. We must now lift our voices in warning. Will our people acknowledge God as the supreme Ruler, or will they choose the misleading arguments and views that, when fully developed, make Him, in the minds of those who accept them, as nothingness? {SpTB07 37.1}

These words were spoken to me in the night season. The sentiments in "Living Temple" regarding the personality of God have been received even by men who have had a long experience in the truth. When such men consent to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, we are no longer to regard the subject as a matter to be treated with the greatest delicacy. That those whom we thought sound in the faith should have failed to discern the specious, deadly influence of this science of evil, should alarm us as nothing else has alarmed us. {SpTB07 37.2}

[John317]

What if the omega of apostasy is the rejection of the gift that God graciously gave to His end-time church?

There can be no question that those who accept the Omega of apostasy will first give up their confidence in that gift.

[John317]

Hopefully my comment to John317 above will be tolerated on this area of the board...

Guaranteed. :-)

[BobRyan]

Hopefully my comment to John317 above will be tolerated on this area of the board...

[lazarus]

I agree that it is a bad thing - but it is also easy enough to kill. All leadership has to do say that they will not be allowing it any more. Nothing breaks if they do that.

Sorry, I really disagree with that. Banning Spiritual formation would be like trying to ban drums, clapping, praise dance etc. Would you tell pastors that they couldn't use those particular words or what?. Additionally, spiritual formation includes prayer, the study of scripture, fasting, simplicity, solitude, confession, worship. Help me to understand how the GC could ban any aspect of spiritual formation?

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

What if the omega of apostasy is the rejection of the gift that God graciously gave to His end-time church?

There can be no question that those who accept the Omega of apostasy will first give up their confidence in that gift.

I don't see this to constitute the "of a startling nature" part of Ellen White's description.

[John317]

There can be no question that those who accept the Omega of apostasy will first give up their confidence in Ellen White's prophetic ministry.

Originally Posted By: Overaged

I don't see this to constitute the "of a startling nature" part of Ellen White's description.

You're right, it isn't. But she does say that Satan knows that if he's going to cause people to be deceived, he must first get them to give up their trust in the Spirit of prophecy.

[Gerr]

There can be no question that those who accept the Omega of apostasy will first give up their confidence in that gift.

Originally Posted By: Overaged

I don't see this to constitute the "of a startling nature" part of Ellen White's description.

Did it not startle you when the Lutherans reached a common ground with the RCC on justification by faith?

Did it not startle you when Walter Rea, a staunch SOP proponent, publish his "White Lie?"

At any rate, we are to keep our eyes and ears open, because the devil is out to deceive, if it were possible, even the very elect. That any SDA could espouse evolution IS startling, so IS repudiation of the SOP (to me anyway), and so is spiritualism making inroads into the SDAC. But then again, not so startling since the messenger warned us that everything that can be shaken WILL be shaken.