OMEGA of Apostasy - what do you think it is?

[hch]

Originally Posted By: hch

Originally Posted By: Revelation 16:13-15

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon' date=' and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Originally Posted By: miz3

This text says nothing about "alpha and omega" apostasy. The devil has been spewing his "unclean spirits" since the fall of Adam! You are not citing something new.

This text has nothing to do with "alpha and omega"!

Typical SDA misapplication of the Bible! Like you can just cite anything, anything at all, and assert that it means "such and such" even though the text has nothing about "such and such" in it!

Come on "hch" you can surely do better than this?

[/quote']

Since the Bible contains principles, prophecies, and promises that are applicable to all in all ages, it is important to have the discernment of the Holy Spirit to understand where and how they are to be applied.

A child was once asked if he knew a Bible verse that applied to lying. Without hesitation, he quoted: A very pleasant help in times of trouble." Out of context? Misapplied Scripture? A perversion of truth? All of the above.

Surely that youngster could have done better. We all could do better and before long we will either do better or pay the piper. But so often when pearls of wisdom are scattered about to bless others there are those who don't see them for what they are and the precious truths gets lost.

What Scriptural insight do you offer from God's word that warns us about the Omega Apostasy? Surely since God is all knowing, He knew of it before it was upon us. And since God is all loving, He has not withheld anything from His children that they need to prepare them for what is to try their metal before Christ Comes?

So speak miz3, you have my attention.

His Child

[miz3]

Since the Bible contains principles, prophecies, and promises that are applicable to all in all ages, it is important to have the discernment of the Holy Spirit to understand where and how they are to be applied.

A child was once asked if he knew a Bible verse that applied to lying. Without hesitation, he quoted: A very pleasant help in times of trouble." Out of context? Misapplied Scripture? A perversion of truth? All of the above.

Surely that youngster could have done better. We all could do better and before long we will either do better or pay the piper. But so often when pearls of wisdom are scattered about to bless others there are those who don't see them for what they are and the precious truths gets lost.

What Scriptural insight do you offer from God's word that warns us about the Omega Apostasy? Surely since God is all knowing, He knew of it before it was upon us. And since God is all loving, He has not withheld anything from His children that they need to prepare them for what is to try their metal before Christ Comes?

So speak miz3, you have my attention.

There is nothing in the Bible that refers to the "Alpha and Omega" deceptions that we are speaking about on this thread!

The "Alpha and Omega" that we are currently dealing with on this thread is purely the message from Ellen White! The message does not come from the Bible! It comes ONLY FROM ELLEN WHITE!

You misapplied the text you used! That text although from God was not in anyway shape or form talking about the "Alpha and Omega deceptions" we are talking about on this thread!

When I asked the question as to whether these "deceptions" from the pen of Ellen White were in the Bible it was precisely to demonstrate that no such "deceptions" are mentioned specifically in the Bible.

It was also to highlight the fact that these prophecies concerning the "Alpha and Omega deceptions" came ONLY from the pen of Ellen White!

I still find it curious that the Bible does NOT mention these two great "deceptions" to what is supposed to be God's Personal Last Day People who are to be the highlight of all humans history.

You would think the Bible would have more to say about this "people" who are supposed to be God's glittering Jewel and clinching argument as to what God has expected out of humanity all along!

You would also think that these two great vital "deceptions" would be clearly mentioned in Holy Writ as warning and also as a "Mark" as to is God's People!

Ellen White has told us very clearly and precisely what the "Alpha of these deceptions is"! No one can doubt the FACT!

However, I also find it curious that Ellen White does NOT cite specifically and precisely what the "Omega of these deceptions is"!

If this deception is so dangerous why not warn us of what it is? The FACT is Ellen White does not even give us a hint!

Thus, like we have seen on this thread some very good and interesting points, we have not yet nailed it!

We the "last people", the crowning jewel of God's final argument against evil DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT THIS "OMEGA" DECEPTION IS!

It gets curiousor and cruriousor!

[phkrause]

just FYI... Contemplative prayer empties the mind. If you let the control of your mind be free, it isn't the Holy Spirit that will enter. The HS is *invited.* It will be Satanic forces that will enter your mind....they don't need to be invited..

I wish this wasn't even an issue in the SDA church.. it is *so* deceptive.. and feels "good"...people are drawn to it without knowing what they're getting into..

It is disheartening to watch so many Christians being taken in by this.. but I don't know what to do about it... nothing, I guess...nobody wants to hear about being deceived...

Excellent points rudywoofs..

[Lysimachus]

Miz3,

Since when can't a prophet reveal things that are not mentioned in the Bible? Last time I checked, Paul introduced messages that were not given to any prophets before. Last time I checked, Jeremiah had new messages that the prophets prior did not have either. Every prophet throughout the ages had some new messages that the previous scriptures did not mention.

What is important is that it does not CONFLICT or CONTRADICT the Bible in any way. But a prophet has every right to introduced spiritual concepts that, although are new, are in harmony and do not contradict the Word.

Ellen White, as a prophet, had EVERY RIGHT, to introduce new spiritual concepts, as long as they did not contradict the Bible.

[John317]

...Ellen White has told us very clearly and precisely what the "Alpha of these deceptions is"! No one can doubt the FACT!

However, I also find it curious that Ellen White does NOT cite specifically and precisely what the "Omega of these deceptions is"!

If this deception is so dangerous why not warn us of what it is? The FACT is Ellen White does not even give us a hint!

Thus, like we have seen on this thread some very good and interesting points, we have not yet nailed it!

We the "last people", the crowning jewel of God's final argument against evil DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT THIS "OMEGA" DECEPTION IS!

It gets curiousor and cruriousor!

It's clear to people who want to know and who study and ask God to show them the truth about these things.

Here are some of the "hints" that Ellen White gave us about the nature of the Omega:

Quote:

I am instructed to speak plainly. "Meet it," is the word spoken to me. "Meet it firmly, and without delay." But it is not to be met by our taking our working forces from the field to investigate doctrines and points of difference. We have no such investigation to make. In the book Living Temple there is presented the alpha of deadly heresies. The omega will follow, and will be received by those who are not willing to heed the warning God has given. {1SM 200.1}

Our physicians, upon whom important responsibilities rest, should have clear spiritual discernment. They are to stand constantly on guard. Dangers that we do not now discern will soon break upon us, and I greatly desire that they shall not be deceived. I have an intense longing to see them standing free in the Lord. I pray that they may have courage to stand firm for the truth as it is in Jesus, holding fast the beginning of their confidence unto the end.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2, pp. 49, 50. {1SM 200.2}

Chap. 24 - The Alpha and the Omega

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[DURING THE SUMMER OF 1904, AT A CRITICAL POINT IN THE CRISIS OVER THE PROMULGATION BY DR. J. H. KELLOGG OF PANTHEISTIC THEORIES, AND AT A TIME WHEN HE WAS ADVOCATING UNSOUND POLICIES RELATING TO THE MANAGEMENT OF OUR MEDICAL WORK, ELLEN G. WHITE SOUNDED A NUMBER OF WARNINGS, WHICH WERE ASSEMBLED AND "PUBLISHED FOR THE AUTHOR" IN A SIXTY-PAGE PAMPHLET, SPECIAL TESTIMONIES, SERIES B, NO. 2, ENTITLED "TESTIMONIES FOR THE CHURCH CONTAINING LETTERS TO PHYSICIANS AND MINISTERS GIVING MESSAGES OF WARNING AND WORDS OF COUNSEL AND ADMONITION REGARDING OUR PRESENT SITUATION." IN TWO OF THESE COMMUNICATIONS SHE REFERS TO "THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA." FOLLOWING ARE THE TWO STATEMENTS IN THEIR ENTIRETY AS TAKEN FROM THE PAMPHLET. FURTHER COUNSELS MAKING REFERENCE TO PANTHEISM MAY BE FOUND IN TESTIMONIES, VOLUME 8, PAGES 255-318 AND THE MINISTRY OF HEALING, PAGES 427-438. FOR THE BACKGROUND OF THE EXPERIENCE WITH PANTHEISM, SEE A. G. DANIELLS' THE ABIDING GIFT OF PROPHECY, PAGES 330-342, AND L. H. CHRISTIAN'S THE FRUITAGE OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS, PAGES 277-296.--COMPILERS.] {1SM 193.1}

Teach the Word

Washington, D.C.

July 24, 1904

To Our Leading Physicians:

Dear Fellow Workers: I am awakened at eleven o'clock. The representations passing before me are so vivid that I cannot sleep. The word of the Lord has come to me that there is a decided work to be done in warning our medical

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missionaries against the dangers and perils that surround them. {1SM 193.2}

The Lord calls upon those connected with our sanitariums to reach a higher standard. No lie is of the truth. If we follow cunningly devised fables, we unite with the enemy's forces against God and Christ. God calls upon those who have been wearing a yoke of human manufacture to break this yoke, and no longer be the bond servants of men. {1SM 194.1}

The battle is on. Satan and his angels are working with all deceivableness of unrighteousness. They are untiring in their efforts to draw souls away from the truth, away from righteousness, to spread ruin throughout the universe. They work with marvelous industry to furnish a multitude of deceptions to take souls captive. Their efforts are unceasing. The enemy is ever seeking to lead souls into infidelity and skepticism. He would do away with God, and with Christ, who was made flesh and dwelt among us to teach us that in obedience to God's will we may be victorious over sin. {1SM 194.2}

Assailed by Every Form of Evil

Every form of evil is waiting for an opportunity to assail us. Flattery, bribes, inducements, promises of wonderful exaltation, will be most assiduously employed. {1SM 194.3}

What are God's servants doing to raise the barrier of a "Thus saith the Lord" against this evil? The enemy's agents are working unceasingly to prevail against the truth. Where are the faithful guardians of the Lord's flocks? Where are His watchmen? Are they standing on the high tower, giving the danger signal, or are they allowing the peril to pass unheeded? Where are the medical missionaries? Are they co-workers with Christ, wearing His yoke, or are they wearing a yoke of human manufacture? {1SM 194.4}

Satan and his angels are making every effort to obtain control of minds, that men may be swayed by falsehood and pleasing fables. Are our physicians lifting the danger signal? Are the men who have been placed in prominent positions in our sanitariums lifting the danger signal? Or are

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many of the watchmen asleep, while mischievous tongues and acute minds, sharpened by long practice in evading the truth, are continually at work to bring in confusion, and to carry out plans instigated by the enemy? {1SM 194.5}

Please read Paul's exhortation to the Colossians. He speaks of his earnest desire that the hearts of the believers might be "knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Colossians 2:2, 3). "And this I say," he declares, "lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. . . . As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:4-9). {1SM 195.1}

Will the men in our institutions keep silent, allowing insidious fallacies to be promulgated to the ruin of souls? The sentiments of the enemy are being scattered everywhere. Seeds of discord, of unbelief, of infidelity, are being sown broadcast. Shall our medical missionaries raise no barrier against this evil? Is it not time that we asked ourselves, Shall we allow the adversary to lead us to give up the work of proclaiming the truth? Shall we allow him to keep us from being channels through which the blessings of the gospel, as a current of life, shall flow to the world? Let every man now arouse, and work as he has opportunity. Let him speak words in season and out of season, and look to Christ for encouragement and strength in welldoing. {1SM 195.2}

Dangers Continually Increasing

The dangers coming upon us are continually increasing. It is high time that we put on the whole armor of God, and work earnestly to keep Satan from gaining any

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further advantage. Angels of God, that excel in strength, are waiting for us to call them to our aid, that our faith may not be eclipsed by the fierceness of the conflict. Renewed energy is now needed. Vigilant action is called for. Indifference and sloth will result in the loss of personal religion and of heaven. {1SM 195.3}

At this time the Laodicean message is to be given, to arouse a slumbering church. Let the thought of the shortness of time stimulate you to earnest, untiring effort. Remember that Satan has come down with great power, to work with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish. {1SM 196.1}

For years our physicians have been trained to think that they must not give expression to sentiments that differ from those of their chief. [REFERENCE IS HERE MADE TO DR. J. H. KELLOGG, FOR MANY YEARS THE MEDICAL SUPERINTENDENT OF THE BATTLE CREEK SANITARIUM.--COMPILERS.] O that they had broken the yoke! O that they had called sin by its right name! Then they would not be regarded in the heavenly courts as men who, though bearing weighty responsibilities, have failed of speaking the truth in reproof of that which has been in disobedience to God's Word. {1SM 196.2}

Physicians, have you been doing the Master's business in listening to fanciful and spiritualistic interpretations of the Scriptures, interpretations which undermine the foundations of our faith, and holding your peace? God says, "Neither will I be with you any more, unless you awake, and vindicate your Redeemer." {1SM 196.3}

Sophistries That Undermine the Pillars

My message to you is: No longer consent to listen without protest to the perversion of truth. Unmask the pretentious sophistries which, if received, will lead ministers and physicians and medical missionary workers to ignore the truth. Every one is now to stand on his guard. God calls upon men and women to take their stand under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel. I have been instructed to warn our people; for many are in danger

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of receiving theories and sophistries that undermine the foundation pillars of the faith. {1SM 196.4}

Sometimes our physicians talk for hours, when they are weary and perplexed, and in no fit condition to talk. Medical missionaries should refuse to hold long night sessions of conversation. These night talks have been times when Satan with his seductive influence has stolen away from one and then another the faith once delivered to the saints. Brilliant, sparkling ideas often flash from a mind that is influenced by the great deceiver. Those who listen and acquiesce will become charmed, as Eve was charmed by the serpent's words. They cannot listen to charming philosophical speculations, and at the same time keep the word of the living God clearly in mind. {1SM 197.1}

Our physicians have lost a great deal out of their lives because they have seen wrong transactions and heard wrong words spoken, and seen wrong principles followed, and have not spoken in reproof, for fear that they would be repulsed. {1SM 197.2}

I call upon those who have been connected with these binding influences to break the yoke to which they have long submitted, and stand as free men in Christ. Nothing but a determined effort will break the spell that is upon them. {1SM 197.3}

The Alpha Now Seen

Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature. {1SM 197.4}

We need to study the words that Christ uttered in the prayer that He offered just before His trial and crucifixion. "These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the

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earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word" (John 17:1-6). {1SM 197.5}

[miz3]

Miz3,

Since when can't a prophet reveal things that are not mentioned in the Bible? Last time I checked, Paul introduced messages that were not given to any prophets before. Last time I checked, Jeremiah had new messages that the prophets prior did not have either. Every prophet throughout the ages had some new messages that the previous scriptures did not mention.

What is important is that it does not CONFLICT or CONTRADICT the Bible in any way. But a prophet has every right to introduced spiritual concepts that, although are new, are in harmony and do not contradict the Word.

Ellen White, as a prophet, had EVERY RIGHT, to introduce new spiritual concepts, as long as they did not contradict the Bible.

You miss my point! What you cite is not the problem!

For the sake of our discussion only, we will assume that Ellen White is the Prophet you say she is. As such Your statement that Ellen White could reveal things not in the Bible would be correct!

I further agree that what Ellen White is stating does not conflict with the Bible!

Given those two things it is still curious why on such a vital issue to God's Last Day Church that even Ellen White does not tell us exactly and precisely what the "Omega of deception is"!

If you are going to tell us the "Alpha" because it is so "sinister" you should be just as precise and specific with the "Omega" deception because it also is so "sinister" and so "dangerous". Why withhold such information!

[BobRyan]

If you go back to the second post on this thread - you see an interesting link between the false science of the "Living Temple" and that of evolutionism

Quote:

John317 said

Jesus' use of "the Alpha and the Omega" is different from Ellen White's use of those words. Ellen White is talking about deadly heresies, whereas Christ is saying that He is the beginning and the ending. He is everything. In both cases, it refers to completeness, but beyond that, it doesn't have any relationship.

Notice that Ellen White talks about "deadly heresies," not "a deadly heresy." The acceptance of the Alpha of deadly heresies leads to many heresies, not merely to a single heresy. The Alpha, if accepted, would have caused SDAs to discard the platform on which the pillars of our faith stand.

Since Ellen White sent out the Testimonies and met the Alpha of deadly heresies, does this mean that we can relax with the assurance that the Omega is nowhere in sight?

So that brings up the question as to what ideas those on this section of the board may have as to just what is the OMEGA of apostasy.

My response to John317

==================================================

Excellent points all - and in 3SG 9-91 Ellen White calls the evolutionism fallacy "the worst form of infidelity" as it destroys not only Adventism but Christianity itself. A point about Christianity that Darwin fully admits.

Your quoted text included this - "a dangerous production; for in the book is taught an insinuating, deceptive science of Satanic origin" --

That quote is more than a little instructive - for the unbiased objective reader

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

We are witnessing the omega of deceptions that is deceiving the very elect, right here, right now. It is a multi-headed beast, each head striving for dominance and attention. It is characterized by much confusion. The irony of it all makes it of a most startling nature.

The thread asks the readers/posters to make a suggestion as to what they think the OMEGA may be -- you seem to be objecting that a multitude of suggestions is being tolerated.

Why do you choose to go down that road? What is the alternative? Censor everyone who does not agree with a particular POV??

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

just FYI... Contemplative prayer empties the mind. If you let the control of your mind be free, it isn't the Holy Spirit that will enter.

Agreed. It is not something SDAs should be messing with.

in Christ,

Bob

[John317]

But the assumption that the events of the first week required thousands upon thousands of years, strikes directly at the foundation of the fourth commandment. It represents the Creator as commanding men to observe the week of literal days in commemoration of vast, indefinite periods. This is unlike his method of dealing with his creatures. It makes indefinite and obscure that which he has made very plain. It is infidelity in its most insidious and hence most dangerous form; its real character is so disguised that it is held and taught by many who profess to believe the Bible. {CE 190, 191}

But the infidel supposition, that the events of the first week required seven vast, indefinite periods for their accomplishment, strikes directly at the foundation of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. It makes indefinite and obscure that which God has made very plain. It is the worst kind of infidelity; for with many who profess to believe the record of creation, it is infidelity in disguise. It charges God with commanding men to observe the week of seven literal days in commemoration of seven indefinite periods, which is unlike his dealings with mortals, and is an impeachment of his wisdom. {3SG 91.1}

It has been the special work of Satan to lead fallen man to rebel against God's government, and he has succeeded too well in his efforts. He has tried to obscure the law of God, which in itself is very plain. He has manifested a special hate against the fourth precept of the decalogue, because it defines the living God, the Maker of the heavens and the earth. The plainest precepts of Jehovah are turned from, to receive infidel fables. {3SG 94.2}

[John317]

For the sake of our discussion only, we will assume that Ellen White is the Prophet you say she is. As such Your statement that Ellen White could reveal things not in the Bible would be correct!

I further agree that what Ellen White is stating does not conflict with the Bible!

Given those two things it is still curious why on such a vital issue to God's Last Day Church that even Ellen White does not tell us exactly and precisely what the "Omega of deception is"!

If you are going to tell us the "Alpha" because it is so "sinister" you should be just as precise and specific with the "Omega" deception because it also is so "sinister" and so "dangerous". Why withhold such information!

Your argument could also be an objection to many of the things John the Revelator wrote. Why didn't he say exactly what the Mark of the Beast would be so we could know precisely what to watch for?

Ellen White could only reveal as much as God revealed to her. God doesn't reveal everything to the prophets. Remember that Daniel himself, as well as John the Beloved, also did not understand everything that God had revealed in vision.

However, Ellen White shows us enough details for us to reject the Alpha of deadly heresies and to reject the Omega when it comes, if we are willing to accept the warning that God has given us in the Testimonies.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

But the history of this system of teaching is very enlightening and the fact that it deals with the "centering prayer" of silence (also called "Contemplative prayer") concept of emptying the mind so as to let the spirits speak to you.

Give me an example of a Christian writer who suggests this.

Quote:

The "spiritual director" concept appears to replace the role of the Holy Spirit in SF.

Again I would love to see the evidence for this, quotes, videos, articles, books etc.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

For the sake of our discussion only, we will assume that Ellen White is the Prophet you say she is. As such Your statement that Ellen White could reveal things not in the Bible would be correct!

I further agree that what Ellen White is stating does not conflict with the Bible!

Given those two things it is still curious why on such a vital issue to God's Last Day Church that even Ellen White does not tell us exactly and precisely what the "Omega of deception is"!

If you are going to tell us the "Alpha" because it is so "sinister" you should be just as precise and specific with the "Omega" deception because it also is so "sinister" and so "dangerous". Why withhold such information!

Ellen White could only reveal as much as God revealed to her. God doesn't reveal everything to the prophets. Remember that Daniel himself also did not understand everything that God had shown him in vision.

She shows us enough details for us to reject the Alpha of deadly heresies and to reject the Omega when it comes, if we are willing to accept the warning that God has given us in the Testimonies.

I just find it interesting and curious that such a vital thing would create such mystery and such a lack of knowledge!

[BobRyan]

But the assumption that the events of the first week required thousands upon thousands of years, strikes directly at the foundation of the fourth commandment. It represents the Creator as commanding men to observe the week of literal days in commemoration of vast, indefinite periods. This is unlike his method of dealing with his creatures. It makes indefinite and obscure that which he has made very plain. It is infidelity in its most insidious and hence most dangerous form; its real character is so disguised that it is held and taught by many who profess to believe the Bible. {CE 190, 191}

[John317]

Could not be clearer.

[BobRyan]

Could not be clearer.

And so it is little wonder that if you try to point this - you will get some pretty strange forms of opposition. Some from places that you would expect - and some from places you surely would not expect.

Notice how the tempation for "mankind" in Eden was a combination of "the pleasing sentiments of higher criticism, evolution, spiritualism, theosophy, and pantheism, "

This is why I predict that BEYOND the issue of the "Omega" for Adventists - there is an "OMEGA for mankind" that will combine those errors once again only orders of magnitude more effective and persuasive. (In my list spiritualism is in the form of witchcraft in Genesis 3 and at the end of time)

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post466233

in Christ,

Bob

[John317]

...I just find it interesting and curious that such a vital thing would create such mystery and such a lack of knowledge!

Many people say the same thing about the Mark of the Beast, yet for others it is clear as day.

Both of those things-- the Omega and the Mark of the Beast-- point to a lack of knowledge only if people refuse to accept what God has revealed.

The people who died in the Flood were warned, but they perished as if they had never been told of the coming Flood because they refused to listen to the warning.

[Twilight II]

The alpha in the bible would be the temptation in the garden of Eden.

The omega in the bible would be the last great test, the test on the Sabbath.

Isn't it interesting that both of these centre around creation...

Some interesting thoughts Bob...

[Twilight II]

So the Alpha and Omega would be the first test and the last test biblically.

And those that fail those tests are the ones involved in the Alpha and Omega of apostacy...

[skyblue888]

I just finished perusing through this thread and I must say I was surprised that nobody, not even you John317, was clear at to when the "omega of apostasy" began as far as the history of the advent movement is concerned. The rejection of the 1888 message and the refusal to reorganize according to God's divine order between 1888 and 1901 led to the "omega of apostasy" in the 1950s.

The alpha of apostasy had to do with pantheistic teachings and that these teachings, if accepted, would sweep away the whole Christian economy. (Testimonies, Vol.8,291) If God is a mere impersonal essence pervading all nature, then there is no personal God, no throne in Heaven, no sanctuary in Heaven, and therefore no Jesus Christ pleading the merits of His shed blood in behalf of all men. Thus it is easy to sea how these teachings would undermine the pillars of our faith.

The "omega of apostasy" would undermine the pillars of our faith but this time it would be of a most startling nature. (1 S.M.197) This time it did not come in the form of pantheistic teachings but in the form of making concessions regarding the pillars of our faith, making compromises, and even repudiating these pillars of our faith in order for our denomination to be reckoned among the popular churches, in order to be recognized as a Christian denomination istead of being labeled an anti-christian cult by Christendom!

This took place in the 1950s when prominent leaders of our chuch held 18 secret meetings with repesentatives of the churches that constitute Babylon.

In 1 S.M.204,205 Mrs. White speaks of the alpha and the omega and shows that the aim behind both these apostasies would be to undermine the pillars of our faith.

In Letters To The Churches, M.L. Andreason expressed the thought that these compromises that our leaders made with representatives of the churches that constitute Babylon was the beginning of the "omega of apostasy" and personally I fully agree with him.

The foundation and central pillar of our faith was compromised when our leaders told these men that we too believed and taught that the atonement was finished at the cross and that Jesus did not take the fallen nature of Adam after the fall, that He did not take upon Himself sinful flesh but the flesh of Adam before the fall. And our leaders also minimized the importance of keeping the Sabbath as predicted in 1 S.M.204,205.

After these compromises and repudiations, these men declared that there were no more obstacles to our being accepted into the "body of Christ".

If this is not the omega of apostasy, what is?

The attraction to the teachings of spiritual formation, the Emerging Church, etc, etc, just to mention those, are merely a few results of what took place in 1888,1903,1955-1957 and thereafter.

There is more to say on this topic but it should sufice for now.

sky

[Twilight II]

He did not take upon Himself sinful flesh but the flesh of Adam before the fall.

sky

Do you have a quote for this, because I think you over simplified the point they were actually making.

So can you back up this statement with some evidence that this was what they presented to the other chuches.

[skyblue888]

Bible Readings For The Home (1915 Edition)

On page 188, we read:

1. What testimony is borne concerning Christ's life on earth? “Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth." 1 Peter 2:22.

2. What is true of all other members of the human family? “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23.

3. With what question did Christ challenge His enemies? “Which of you convinceth Me of sin?" John 8:46.

4. To what extent was Christ tempted?"[He] was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15.

5. In His humanity, of what nature did Christ partake? “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil." Hebrews 2:14.

6. How fully did Christ share our common humanity? “Wherefore in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Verse 17.

7. Where did God, in Christ, condemn sin, and gain the victory for us over temptation and sin? “For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh." Romans 8:3.

8. By whose power did Christ live the perfect life? “I can of Mine own self do nothing." John 5:30. "The words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself: but the Father that dwelleth in Me, He doth the works." John 14:10.

_______

Between question # 6 and 7, there is this note which can no longer be found in the newest copies:

"In His humanity Christ partook of our sinful, fallen nature. If not, then He was not 'made like unto His brethren,' was not 'in all points tempted like as we are,' did not overcome as we have to overcome, and is not, therefore, the complete and perfect Saviour man needs and must have to be saved. The idea that Christ was born of an immaculate or sinless mother, inherited no tendencies to sin, and for this reason did not sin, removes Him from the realm of a fallen world, and from the very place where help is needed. On His human side, Christ inherited just what every child of Adam inherits--a sinful nature. On the divine side, from His very conception He was begotten and born of the Spirit. And all this was done to place mankind on vantage ground, and to demonstrate that in the same way every one who is 'born of the Spirit' may gain the victories over sin in his own sinful flesh. Thus each one is to overcome as Christ overcame. Rev.3:211. Without this birth there can be no victory over temptation, and no salvation from sin. John 3:3-7."

On page 189 of the same book, we read,

"Where did God, in Christ, condemn sin, and gain the victory for us over temptation and sin?

Note: "God in Christ, condemned sin, not by pronouncing against it merely as a judge on the judgment seat, but by coming and living in the flesh, in sinful flesh, and yet without sinning. In Christ, He demonstrated that it is possible, by His grace and power, to resist temptation, overcome sin, and live a sinless life in sinful flesh."

In the 1958 edition, revised after the compromised that were made between 1955 and 1957, it reads thus:

"God in Christ, condemned sin, not by pronouncing against it merely as a judge on the judgment seat, but by coming and living in the flesh, and yet without sinning. In Christ, He demonstrated that it is possible, by His grace and power, to resist temptation, overcome sin, and live a sinless life in the flesh." p.191.

See the changes?

The evangelical representatives were very pleased by these changes and that led to our denomination to be recognized as "Christian" and we could now be reckoned among the other denominations and no longer categorized as an anti-christian cult.

sky

[Twilight II]

Bible Readings For The Home (1915 Edition)

On page 188, we read:

1. What testimony is borne concerning Christ's life on earth? “Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth." 1 Peter 2:22.

2. What is true of all other members of the human family? “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23.

3. With what question did Christ challenge His enemies? “Which of you convinceth Me of sin?" John 8:46.

4. To what extent was Christ tempted?"[He] was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15.

5. In His humanity, of what nature did Christ partake? “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil." Hebrews 2:14.

6. How fully did Christ share our common humanity? “Wherefore in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Verse 17.

7. Where did God, in Christ, condemn sin, and gain the victory for us over temptation and sin? “For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh." Romans 8:3.

8. By whose power did Christ live the perfect life? “I can of Mine own self do nothing." John 5:30. "The words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself: but the Father that dwelleth in Me, He doth the works." John 14:10.

_______

Between question # 6 and 7, there is this note which can no longer be found in the newest copies:

"In His humanity Christ partook of our sinful, fallen nature. If not, then He was not 'made like unto His brethren,' was not 'in all points tempted like as we are,' did not overcome as we have to overcome, and is not, therefore, the complete and perfect Saviour man needs and must have to be saved. The idea that Christ was born of an immaculate or sinless mother, inherited no tendencies to sin, and for this reason did not sin, removes Him from the realm of a fallen world, and from the very place where help is needed. On His human side, Christ inherited just what every child of Adam inherits--a sinful nature. On the divine side, from His very conception He was begotten and born of the Spirit. And all this was done to place mankind on vantage ground, and to demonstrate that in the same way every one who is 'born of the Spirit' may gain the victories over sin in his own sinful flesh. Thus each one is to overcome as Christ overcame. Rev.3:211. Without this birth there can be no victory over temptation, and no salvation from sin. John 3:3-7."

On page 189 of the same book, we read,

"Where did God, in Christ, condemn sin, and gain the victory for us over temptation and sin?

Note: "God in Christ, condemned sin, not by pronouncing against it merely as a judge on the judgment seat, but by coming and living in the flesh, in sinful flesh, and yet without sinning. In Christ, He demonstrated that it is possible, by His grace and power, to resist temptation, overcome sin, and live a sinless life in sinful flesh."

In the 1958 edition, revised after the compromised that were made between 1955 and 1957, it reads thus:

"God in Christ, condemned sin, not by pronouncing against it merely as a judge on the judgment seat, but by coming and living in the flesh, and yet without sinning. In Christ, He demonstrated that it is possible, by His grace and power, to resist temptation, overcome sin, and live a sinless life in the flesh." p.191.

See the changes?

The evangelical representatives were very pleased by these changes and that led to our denomination to be recognized as "Christian" and we could now be reckoned among the other denominations and no longer categorized as an anti-christian cult.

sky

[skyblue888]

"In His humanity Christ partook of our sinful, fallen nature. If not, then He was not 'made like unto His brethren,' was not 'in all points tempted like as we are,' did not overcome as we have to overcome, and is not, therefore, the complete and perfect Saviour man needs and must have to be saved. The idea that Christ was born of an immaculate or sinless mother, inherited no tendencies to sin, and for this reason did not sin, removes Him from the realm of a fallen world, and from the very place where help is needed. On His human side, Christ inherited just what every child of Adam inherits--a sinful nature. On the divine side, from His very conception He was begotten and born of the Spirit. And all this was done to place mankind on vantage ground, and to demonstrate that in the same way every one who is 'born of the Spirit' may gain the victories over sin in his own sinful flesh. Thus each one is to overcome as Christ overcame. Rev.3:211. Without this birth there can be no victory over temptation, and no salvation from sin. John 3:3-7."

On page 189 of the same book, we read,

"Where did God, in Christ, condemn sin, and gain the victory for us over temptation and sin?

Note: "God in Christ, condemned sin, not by pronouncing against it merely as a judge on the judgment seat, but by coming and living in the flesh, in sinful flesh, and yet without sinning. In Christ, He demonstrated that it is possible, by His grace and power, to resist temptation, overcome sin, and live a sinless life in sinful flesh."

I believe the above is the correct view.

If you don't believe it is, fine with me.

If it is the correct view, the other undermines it. It undermines a pillar of our faith. Also the doctrine that Christ began to atone for sin at His ascension in the holy place and that He began the final phase of the atonement when He entered the most holy on Oct.22, 1844 is the foundation and central pillar of the advent faith. The other churches teach that the atonement was finished at the cross and during those meetings this foundational pillar was compromised as we agreed with them just to win their friendship but we have more to fear from their friendship than from their enmity.

Both the alpha and the omega of apostasies aimed at undermining the pillars of our faith.

sky

[skyblue888]

I understand why people think that Christ had tendencies to sin in Him, but I do not believe it is biblical.

Twilight

________________

The tendencies were in His flesh, sinful flesh, for He was made of the seed of David according to the flesh and that is sinful flesh. (Romans 1:3)

The sinful tendencies that were in His flesh were yours and mine and that of the other person and yet He never yielded to them. We have yielded to the flesh many times. But his human mind never yielded and that is why He is the perfect man. He lived a sinless life in sinful flesh.

sky