Segregation and Separate Conferences

[Tom Wetmore]

What's in a name? Identity. Self-perception. Self-worth. Reputation. How one want's to be known by others.

If I resist addressing others in the way they wish to be addressed, its says more about me and my attitude than it does about them.

Just a short time ago at my bank, I asked the teller, how to pronounce her unfamiliar name. She seemed please that I took the time to notice and cared enough to get it right. It's a simple thing, but it's important. It's called respect.

[teresaq]

Hmmm, perhaps I should ask my church to educate us in this matter. I/we might be shocked to find out that we do not know that we do not know...

[lazarus]

What if at the next GC session an evening session is given over to opening a dialogue on the issue of oneness.

Folks would be invited to give their experiences of oneness and segregation. Former GC workers in their eighties would talk about the segregated cafeteria. Others would talk about college days and developing friendships with people of all races. People would be invited to express their frustration, anger and hurt. The president (or perhaps Dwight Nelson) could make a call through a sermon for oneness. There would be prayer offered by each division president

This would be the beginning of a process that would last until the next session whose goal is to bring healing and reconciliation.

Then again perhaps I'm turning into a sentimental old fool!

[CoAspen]

A play on words...'except ye become as sentimental ol' fools........into heaven'!!!

[aldona]

not a reply to anyone in particular....

Skin color is only a small part of racism.

"White" people are not one homogeneous mass who all get along fine. I have heard of some incidents taking place between Adventists of German vs Polish heritage (or Polish vs Russian) which would make Christ and the angels weep. (let's just say, "don't mention the war!!")

"Black" people are not all the same either. A friend of ours who comes from Zambia commented one day (while watching an African-American speaker on 3ABN), that "African-Americans seem to be prejudiced against us folks who were born in Africa. They think we are some kind of wild men from the bush."

Even if we all had the same color skin, divisions and factions and prejudices would still easily arise. It is a disease of the sinful human heart, which can only be cured by the Great Physician who heals all of our other spiritual diseases.

AJ

[Dr. Shane]

I think you missed the point Nelson was making. It was not simply getting rid of the regional conferences.

I grasp that. However getting rid of regional conferences seemed to be the thrust of his message. He presented that as a means to "oneness". If the regional conferences are effectively reaching the African-American populations then getting rid of something that works seems rather foolish to me. Perhaps these conferences' mission could be tweaked to include other minorities.

Pastor Nelson seems to think that 20% is the magic number and that any church with 20% minorities is on the right track. He may be on to something there but when we look at African-American churches we may not see that 20% and it is not because the African-Americans would not welcome whites or other racial groups. It is cultural. Most whites and other racial groups do not care for the worship style and other cultural traditions of the African-Americans. A good, black friend of mine from college was from Kenya and he did not like the African-American churches here. Birds of a feather really do tend to flock together.

[Dr. Shane]

it goes much deeper than organizational structures. It about Spirituality and a willingness to forgive, apologize for past hurts and all that goes with the history of racism in the Adventist church.

I find such apologies rather worthless. How can a pastor or church leader today apologize for something that he did not do? How can he apologize for something the church did under the leadership of people who are already dead?

I listened to the story of the Pentecostal white bishop who washed the feet of the black bishop and apologized for what the white Pentecostals had done. What? I scratched my head. Did the white bishop apologize for what *he* had done? Or was he apologizing for what others had done?

The church today can change its course so that wrongs of the past are not repeated. However the means to get to the desired equality and unity is not agreed on by everyone. In Texas we use to have all our Pathfinder campouts combined (Spanish and English) All of the Conference and District events were bilingual. Then a certain element (not all) of the Spanish community wanted to have all Spanish events so now the Pathfinder organization is split into the Spanish and the English clubs.

[Dr. Shane]

If I resist addressing others in the way they wish to be addressed, its says more about me and my attitude than it does about them.

Agreed but it is so much easier to type Black than it is to type African-American.

[Dr. Shane]

Even if we all had the same color skin, divisions and factions and prejudices would still easily arise.

I agree. Birds of a feather really do tend to flock together.

[Dr. Shane]

What I have done personally is to decide that my identity is more tied to my Adventism than it is to my race or political citizenship. Yes I am White (Irish/German/Greek/Jew). Yes I am an American. But all of those classifications do not identify who I am as much as being an Adventist does.

When I go to heaven my skin may not be white any more and I am sure my American citizenship will have no value. Yet I will always be an Adventist. I will always be one of the Christian that lived during the final days preparing the way for the Lord's second coming.

I think if this concept of tying our identity more to our religious beliefs as Adventists and less to our political citizenship and/or skin color we would have much more unity. That's just my humble opinion.

My experience is that I always feel at home with a group of Adventists. It doesn't matter if they are Hmong, African-American, Latino, White or Eskimo.

[CoAspen]

You and I must have listened to two different sermons! The 20% was just a reported number, not a suggestion that it was a goal for the right path. Over and over his theme was 'oneness'!!

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

I don't have a "need" to name myself, according to race or color of my skin. I guess you would, if you had to, call me MWGA. (married white guy Adventist). Then my identity would be complete. My black friends call me "white wash."

Quote:

Sometimes a case for discrimination is made where there isn't one

Thank you Sir for reinforcing my point.

Ahgh, you are too generous to yourself laz

[Overaged]

Hmmm, perhaps I should ask my church to educate us in this matter. I/we might be shocked to find out that we do not know that we do not know...

LOL...

[Overaged]

I have found Seventh-day Adventist whites less accepting, less understanding, more racist than white non-Christians, atheists etc. Non-Adventist whites are more willing to listen, engage in healthy debate and honest exchange in terms of experiences and ideas when it comes to the race issue.

This is the most racist statement in this topic so far.

I think you have already formed your "truth commission" without the reconciliation part that you mentioned.

[lazarus]

I have found Seventh-day Adventist whites less accepting, less understanding, more racist than white non-Christians, atheists etc. Non-Adventist whites are more willing to listen, engage in healthy debate and honest exchange in terms of experiences and ideas when it comes to the race issue.

LOl, Dude, you need to understand what is racist and what is not. How can it be racist to say that I find White Adventist more racist that non-Adventist/Christian whites. You could say I was anti-Adventist or anti Christian but not anti-white.

Reconciliation comes partly as a result of both sides being honest about their feelings. I'm putting my honest opinions out there. Speaking your heart does not mean you are not open to reconciliation.

[Gerr]

I don't really understand why there is not usually any really honest talk about the reasons why regional conferences were set up in the first place.

The SDA church has never really had a healthy discussion about the racism within its ranks. Until we have that open and honest discussion we will never move forward. Come let us reason together.

I think Nelson covered the reasons. Whatever the reasons, are we going to be the last to do the right thing again? This separatism is a shameful and disgraceful indictment to the followers of Christ who make bold claims about being the remnant. Our leaders who continue to maintain this status quo are probably waiting for hell to freeze over. Time to boot them out.

[Gerr]

And what are the Hispanics doing to learn to speak American?

[Fausto]

[John317]

And what are the Hispanics doing to learn to speak American?

Most Mexicans who come here do try to learn English. As you probably know, my wife and her whole family is from Mexico, and she has three sisters who have come to the USA. I also attend a Spanish-speaking church, so I am very familiar with hispanics who come here from other countries.

It is true, though, that some Spanish-speaking people don't learn English very quickly, and one reason is that English is not an easy language to learn. Another reason for some people not learning English is that a person can do pretty well in places like California and Texas without learning the language. If an individual spends all their time around other Spanish-speaking people, going to places where Spanish is spoken, then they may not be very highly motivated to learn English. I've known people to be here for over 50 years and yet not learn to speak or write English. But those are in a small minority. Most hispanics do work at learning English. I have many relatives who didn't know a word of English when I first met them but who speak it fluently now. One of them is a translator-operator for the Bell Telephone Company in San Diego.

[John317]

Hi Fausto!! Nice to see you here again. :-)

[John317]

I don't really understand why there is not usually any really honest talk about the reasons why regional conferences were set up in the first place.

All the black SDAs that I know who've talked about the regional conferences say they like them and don't want to get rid of them. At least that has been my impression, and I admit that I haven't talked to very many about it. Most of the ones I talked to about it are from Africa and worship together with other members who moved here fairly recently from Africa. They have a much different worship style from the African-Americans.

I don't think the regional conferences are being imposed on SDAs. I believe that if the regional conferences voted to abolish them, they would be able to do it.

Are you saying that black SDAs have no choice in the matter?

My experience is that blacks-- just like hispanics-- enjoy worshiping together with their own kind, people of their own culture and langauge. I don't blame them for this. I myself go to a church which has a separate Spanish speaking Sabbath School and church. Usually we attend the Spanish Church because it is where my wife likes to go.

Everyone is free to go where they want to go. We have black SDAs at our church. One of the elders is black. Our pastor is Mexican-American.

I'm not saying there is no racial prejudice in our church, because I have seen evidence of it in relation to the Spanish-speaking members. But I haven't seen any evidence of racism against blacks in the local church. I frankly don't know about racism in other parts of the church as a whole. I am sure it happens because humans have those problems.

I believe that racial problems-- which exist among all races-- is one of the sins that keep us here in this world. I believe that the people who are sealed by the seal of God will not have hatred or prejudice in their hearts against people because of their race, language or culture, or any other differences. A mark of the Holy Spirit in the life is love for all people.

[John317]

The SDA church has never really had a healthy discussion about the racism within its ranks. Until we have that open and honest discussion we will never move forward. Come let us reason together.

OK, but I am sure you realize what "open and honest discussion" means. It would mean hearing a lot of things that you and anyone else won't want to hear. It would mean going through times where you might feel angry at what others say. It would mean working through those feelings and forgiving people for what they say and think.

Personally I think that would be good in the long run but only if people are willing to stick with it and not walk out.

In such a conversation, there would be no place for playing the race card. There would also be no place for holding grudges against people because of what they say during those discussions.

It could be like opening up a can of worms. As a church, are we ready for this?

[Overaged]

I have found Seventh-day Adventist whites less accepting, less understanding, more racist than white non-Christians, atheists etc. Non-Adventist whites are more willing to listen, engage in healthy debate and honest exchange in terms of experiences and ideas when it comes to the race issue.

quote]This is the most racist statement in this topic so far.

I think you have already formed your "truth commission" without the reconciliation part that you mentioned. /quote]

LOl, Dude, you need to understand what is racist and what is not. How can it be racist to say that I find White Adventist more racist that non-Adventist/Christian whites. You could say I was anti-Adventist or anti Christian but not anti-white.

Reconciliation comes partly as a result of both sides being honest about their feelings. I'm putting my honest opinions out there. Speaking your heart does not mean you are not open to reconciliation.

I am being very honest about my feelings. You are racist if you really believe what you said and that I questioned. Racism is always very specific, and can be directed at a group within a group. I guess if you don't want to be honest about your feelings, you could drum up some other semantics like bigotry or prejudice.

[CoAspen]

Saying who is a racist and who isn't, detracts from the thrust he sermon.

Perhaps people would like to start an other debate in a new topic on that subject.

A positive approach to addressing the sermon on 'oneness' would be more about what us as individuals, as part of the church, can do to make changes in our lives to accomplish the goal of the 'oneness' that Christ was calling for.

[Overaged]

Saying who is a racist and who isn't, detracts from the thrust he sermon.

Perhaps people would like to start an other debate in a new topic on that subject.

A positive approach to addressing the sermon on 'oneness' would be more about what us as individuals, as part of the church, can do to make changes in our lives to accomplish the goal of the 'oneness' that Christ was calling for.

The "positive approach" is to be just that with all people - nevermind the race thing at all. Who cares what color they are? Oneness is just that. There's nothing to figure out. people just need to do it.