Moderators lazarus Posted August 9, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2011 Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 9, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2011 Where was T.D. Jakes' invitation cancelled? Does the GC president have the authority to prevent churches from inviting non-SDA speakers to address them? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldona Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I remember seeing a big campaign recently on one of the more conservative SDA forums (which will remain nameless), demanding that this particular non-SDA heathen be banned from defiling an SDA institution by speaking there. Looks like they got what they wanted. Some of the tone and language used in describing Mr (Pastor?) Jakes on their forum was extraordinary. You would have thought he was a bank-robbing, drug-dealing, murdering, child-abusing sex pervert whose very shadow SDA's should have been crossing the street to avoid. He's just a preacher from another denomination, who naturally is going to subscribe to some doctrines different to ours. I looked at the thread a couple of times and then just shook my head, amazed at what I was reading. AJ Quote www.asrc.org.au (Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, Melbourne)Helping over 2000 refugees & asylum seekers each monthIMSLP/Petrucci Music LibraryThe Public Domain Music Score Library - Free Sheet Music DownloadsLooking for classical sheet music? Try IMSLP first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 9, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2011 That is terrible. I hope you are misstating the facts, but I fear you are not. If they want to disinvite him, that is OK, but they should do it as politely and kindly as possible, and not make shameful comments about him. There's absolutely no reason for that. I hope you are only describing what a few people did. We need to treat or talk of others as we would want to be treated and talked about. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Double speak!! We want to be friends but don't let them talk to us! Unless they are SDA's they are spiritually not fit. Wow, we do have a 'pope'!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2011 Where was T.D. Jakes' invitation cancelled? Does the GC president have the authority to prevent churches from inviting non-SDA speakers to address them? I don't think he has the authority right now to ban, but he certainly has influence. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 That is terrible. I hope you are misstating the facts, but I fear you are not. If they want to disinvite him, that is OK, but they should do it as politely and kindly as possible, and not make shameful comments about him. There's absolutely no reason for that. I hope you are only describing what a few people did. We need to treat or talk of others as we would want to be treated and talked about. Agreed. Wilson's sermon was last Sabbath at ASI - T.D Jakes I think was asked to speak at Oakwood Evangelism Conference in Huntsville, Alabama in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Double speak!! We want to be friends but don't let them talk to us! Unless they are SDA's they are spiritually not fit. Wow, we do have a 'pope'!!!! Would we invite someone to stand in our pulpits who taught God did not mean what He said when He pronounced, "In the day thou eatest thou shalt surely die!"? Would we want someone preaching from our church platform teaching, "You will be whisked away in the rapture before the tribulation, so there is no need to be prepared to accept Christlike character to meet this worldwide behavior"? Would we want someone teaching from our pulpits that our Father in heaven takes joy is seeing the unsaved writhe in burning torment through the ceaseless ages of eternity, for the minute period of time in disobedience practiced while here in a life not originally chosen by them? Would we like someone preaching from our pulpits, "There will come a time when Jesus will not stand with you through the judgment."? If we would have any of these preached from the pulpit, we ought to attend the church that caters to what we wish to hear. "...preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:2-4 NASB God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I am glad to see Elder Wilson is influencing things for the better. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottie Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 What he said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I was just reading about this subject in the Testimonies. Caution is urged with non-SDA speakers. How you deal with that is another subject all together. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Are the extremes all that interest you? He said NO 'NONE SDA's'...They do not have the right spirituality!! Judge not, least ye be judged!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I was just reading about this subject in the Testimonies. Caution is urged with non-SDA speakers. I think that the *rule* has traditionally been that we do not invite non-SDAs to lecture or preach to us about spiritual matters. However non-SDAs may be invited to lecture to us about non-spiritual issues like medical science, political issues, scientific discoveries, etc. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Are the extremes all that interest you? Generally they are the ones who hear the loudest, the need for correction in their own assumptions. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I think caution is advised regardless of the venue when a non-SDA is addressing an SDA group. Why should a non-SDA, regardless of their position in life or society, be given carte blanche to speak to YOUR kids about whatever subject they wanted? For instance. Every case, every instance has to be considered. Frankly, I've heard SDA people, layman, give sermons from the pulpit that I totally disagreed with. I feel strongly the views presented are not in harmony with generally accepted SDA beliefs. I would certainly urge MY local church to "dis-invite" such a speaker if I found out in time they were scheduled to speak again! Whether they are Adventists in good standing or not. Once a decision has been made to reject, or dis-invite a speaker, unless we are privy to the details of why, we really don't have a leg to stand on saying it's "right OR wrong". All we can do is gossip, rumor and back bite because we don't have the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 10, 2011 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2011 Perhaps the next step will be to urge the Adventist Book Centers to stop selling any book not authored by a Seventh-day Adventist. Just a wild guess, but that would reduce the inventory at the local ABC by about 90%. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 10, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 10, 2011 I don't believe that will be the case, but I do think our ABCs need to be careful about selling non-SDA books. They shouldn't advertise and sell books which teach contrary to the foundational pillars of our faith. I'm not suggesting they aren't already careful about that. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Of course Sister White has counsel on that too. I had to RE-READ a sentence and section in Testimonies Vol 7 (Section 5) where she actually mentioned "Indian War" books. Which I guess were popular at her time? I translated that to mean "Westerns", of which my Dad was a big fan. But the principle(s) could apply to a LOT of history, accuratly detailed, real life books as well. We don't need to know how the indian killed and maimed, or the cowboys, or the gangsters, or (add your own group). Not to even mention the whole fiction thing in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 10, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 10, 2011 Somehow I get the impression that our General Conference president doesn't enjoy your full support in regard to his decisions about inviting non-SDA speakers to address the church. I don't want to jump to any hasty conclusions here, though. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 10, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 10, 2011 I go often to Bereans Christian Bookstore because they have a big selection of Bibles and reference books. But they also have row after row of fiction, and much of it is of the "romance" type that I'm glad we don't see in our ABCs, at least not very often. Since those books are near the front of the store, and the Bibles are all the way in back, I assume that they sell more fiction than they do Bibles. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 10, 2011 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2011 It would be unwise to jump to any conclusion of that sort... I would note regarding discernment for only authors supportive of our teachings and doctrines that that was not a condition suggested for non-SDSA speakers. Ted only added a thought about non-SDA's not supporting the Great Controversy message. The difficulty is in previewing speakers as opposed to books. It would be much easier to check the books and selectively take them out of inventory. You never know what a speaker is going to say in advance even if the topic is well-defined. You can only go with what you know he/she stands for or has said or wrote in the past. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 10, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 10, 2011 The problem with inviting non-SDA speakers to talk about spiritual matters is not that SDAs will hear something they won't otherwise be exposed to, but that it will appear to them that the SDA church is giving its approval to what those speakers say. I sometimes watch T.D. Jakes on TV, but that is a lot different from seeing him in an SDA church or addressing an SDA audience. I also sometimes watch Jimmy Swaggart, the Catholic channel and various other Christian speakers, but again it would be much different listening to them talk in an SDA church. I can see how the distinction could become blurred in people's minds between what our church teaches and what it doesn't teach. I think that is different from political speakers. While I was studying at Loma Linda University, the school invited news columnist Jack Anderson to address the student body, and there was no problem with that because he was talking to us about his work as an investigative reporter. But imagine if it was a Catholic priest talking to us about the good work of the pope or of the benefits of being a Catholic. He wouldn't be saying anything I haven't heard before, but the context in which it is said would be likely to make his words misunderstood and have an undesirable influence on many minds. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 10, 2011 Administrators Share Posted August 10, 2011 And I would say that there is an equally strong implied endorsement of authors of books sold by the ABC. It is the Adventist Book Center. This also sends a message to non-Adventist customers at the ABC. And they would be less able to discern where such an author differs. At our local ABC, the majority of customers are non-SDA. It is in a shopping center between the Target and Staples. I would think there is a greater risk of confusion in that context than for a meeting attended by almost exclusively our own members where a non-SDA speaks. One would hope that most of our members would be able to discern when such a speaker differs from our own doctrines. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 10, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 10, 2011 I agree, Tom. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 10, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted August 10, 2011 These developments have a lot of implications. My conference has, in the past, used non-SDA speakers for Pastors conferences and Pastor/teacher conventions. They have been some of the best speakers we have had had. Obviously, conference presidents will have to look again at their approach to these issues. If they are forced to have SDA's only we will be much the poorer for it, in my opinion. I personally am not sorry that TD Jakes was uninvited. He's not my cup of tea. I was thrilled, however, to sit and listen to Tony Campolo in the GC auditorium a couple of years ago. That's a brother I would invite. I guess Martin Luther, Huss, Jerome and many of the great reformers wouldn't have gotten an invite. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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