Moderators lazarus Posted August 12, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted August 12, 2011 First Jakes, then Jeremiah Wright Jr. No thanks. I don't want these racists speaking in my denomination. Racists? LOL.I can see how you might come to that conclusion with wright if you are a Fox news watcher but TJ Jakes? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Quote: Do you believe we are wrong for accepting the sabbath from a non-SDA? I didn't know I said anything that would indicate that. But one can never stop individuals from reading between the lines. Inferences of what something might mean, other than what it says, usually comes from the heart of the person making the inference. That is much of what inspires the disputes on C/A, IMHO. "Love....is ever ready to believe the best of every person...."1 Corinthians 13:7 AMP God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Actually, "we" accepted the Sabbath from the Millerite movement, who had already accepted the 2,300 year prophecy AND the concept of the Investigative judgment. God was leading a people who came out of many different beliefs. That was then, this is now. Our message, like the original Millerite message, is to go out to the world. There was a group of believers who published tracts in the 1400's concerning the Sabbath truth. There has ALWAYS been a group somewhere keeping the Sabbath. But back to the main point, this is what Wilson said in the early part of the video link. "Avoid the practice of inviting major spiritual speakers who are not Seventh-day Adventists. Avoid having them speak to church meetings, mens meetings, womens meetings, retreats, Pastoral meetings, youth meetings and large convocations.... I am not talking about refusing or not inviting civic, government or religious leaders who attend a meeting. We need to make friends with these people. We need to share our faith with them. But what I am talking about is asking them to give a major spiritual presentation, where they probably simply do not, have the concept of the Great Controversy.... We certainly can learn from others, who are not members and we should encourage them in their own walk with the Lord, to find truth." I don't have a problem with that, I think it is a well balanced statement. Just about any church would take the same position, if they intend to protect their flock! Amen! Colorization by RLH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tallmark First Jakes, then Jeremiah Wright Jr. No thanks. I don't want these racists speaking in my denomination. Racists? LOL.I can see how you might come to that conclusion with wright if you are a Fox news watcher but TJ Jakes? Why would he need to be a Fox News watcher to come to that conclusion about Wright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I suspect he was in NY but am not sure. Which is actually correct. His testimony has been making it clear for years (about 40 years I believe) that it is only the blood of Jesus and His willingness to come down into the Bronx to bring him hope and salvation, that delivered him from a life of desperation and destruction. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 12, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted August 12, 2011 But what I am talking about is asking them to give a major spiritual presentation, where they probably simply do not, have the concept of the Great Controversy.... I've sat and listened to non-SDA's speak to SDA pastors about small groups, church growth, discipleship, spirituality and other topics and not felt less than inspired and drawn closer to God by their presentations that were both Biblical and spiritual. I'm not sure what others would be consider to be a major spiritual presentation but they would fall into that category in my mind. Tony Campolo gave a major spiritual presentation at GC a number of years ago. It was Biblical, spiritual, relevant and I could tell that he had been with Jesus. I have heard major presentations given by SDA's that has been as "dry as the hills of Gilboa". Many of our people are suffering because of the fast-food sermons/messages that they are being given. If I can call on a man of God from another fold to deliver the word I will. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 12, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted August 12, 2011 Why would he need to be a Fox News watcher to come to that conclusion about Wright? Seems like all Fox watchers have that opinion. Folks who don't watch Fox have a more balanced approach on that issue. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Interesting.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Lazarus says, "If I can call on a man of God from another fold to deliver the word I will." I think most of us can agree with that, and your points about dry sermons from Adventist Pastors rings true as well. I wonder, who will make this call for a supposed man of God, outside the church, to come and deliver a message to a large gathering of Seventh-day Adventists? Do we do this by recommending such a person to the Conference, our local Pastor, the Elders of the church? What if our chosen speaker is denied the opportunity to speak? How should we react? The question on the table in this thread is: Did Elder Wilson make the right call by dis-inviting this speaker to this gathering? Was this decision his and his alone, or was it the considered opinion of the brethren with whom he counsels? Is there a faction of false brethren who assumed to engage in a work on their own responsibility? Who indulge in murmuring and faultfinding, proposing new plans and seeking to pull down the work of the experienced men whom God had ordained? The church has always had such obstacles to meet from the first, and will ever have them to the close of time. ...just wondering where the "church" stands officially on these matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Given the sequence of posts I'm having a hard time following your line of thought. Do you believe we are wrong for accepting the sabbath from a non-SDA? Originally Posted By: fccool Adventism in itself is not a standalone phenomenon. It borrows a lot of different understandings from different people and denominations. It's a composite of different beliefs, and it builds on the road paved by the predecessors. Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost I guess if the Bible is not the foundation of your belief one could agree with this comment. Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) For example, we learned about the sabbath from a Seventh-day Baptist. Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost Not only that, but judging from the recent sense of a need to follow what the Word advises, as below indicated, "Confess to one another therefore your faults (your slips, your false steps, your offenses, your sins) and pray [also] for one another, that you may be healed and restored [to a spiritual tone of mind and heart]. The earnest (heartfelt, continued) prayer of a righteous man makes tremendous power available [dynamic in its working]."James 5:16 AMP Parenthesis brackets their's LHC there appears to be many sinners preaching from our pulpits. God blesses! Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 As we trace the story of the beginning of Sabbathkeeping among the early Adventists, we go to a little church in the township of Washington in the heart of New Hampshire, the state that adjoins Maine on the east and whose western boundary is within sixty miles of the New York state line. Here the members of an independent Christian church in 1843 heard and accepted the preaching of the Advent message. It was an earnest group. Into their midst came a Seventh Day Baptist, Rachel Oakes, who distributed tracts setting forth the binding claims of the fourth commandment. Some in 1844 saw and accepted this Bible truth. One of their number, William Farnsworth, in a Sunday morning service, stood to his feet and declared that he intended to keep God’s Sabbath of the fourth commandment. A dozen others joined him, taking their stand firmly on all of God’s commandments. They were the first Seventh-day Adventists. {EW x x.2} Originally Posted By: ClubV12 Actually, "we" accepted the Sabbath from the Millerite movement, ... Amen! Colorization by RLH Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 13, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 13, 2011 As we trace the story of the beginning of Sabbathkeeping among the early Adventists, we go to a little church in the township of Washington in the heart of New Hampshire, the state that adjoins Maine on the east and whose western boundary is within sixty miles of the New York state line. Here the members of an independent Christian church in 1843 heard and accepted the preaching of the Advent message. It was an earnest group. Into their midst came a Seventh Day Baptist, Rachel Oakes, who distributed tracts setting forth the binding claims of the fourth commandment. Some in 1844 saw and accepted this Bible truth. One of their number, William Farnsworth, in a Sunday morning service, stood to his feet and declared that he intended to keep God’s Sabbath of the fourth commandment. A dozen others joined him, taking their stand firmly on all of God’s commandments. They were the first Seventh-day Adventists. {EW x x.2} Yes, God used people from many different groups to make up the early SDA church. WE had people who came from all the different churches, including the Catholic Church. I don't know of any SDAs who think that we shouldn't have any contact with non-SDA pastors or teachers or that we should not read anything non-SDAs have written. But we need to consider the fact that those things happened BEFORE: 1) The Fall of the false churches. 2) God raised up His prophet, Ellen G. White, and gave her about 2000 visions and dreams for the Seventh-day-Adventist Church. 3)The Seventh-day Adventist Church was organized. 4) Ellen White wrote about the necessity of keeping all of the Foundational Pillars of our faith. 5) Ellen White wrote warnings for the SDA church about Satan's attempts to bring about changes in the church's doctrinal truths and particularly about Satan's attempt to destroy the Three Angels Messages. 6) Ellen White wrote warnings about getting false teachings from non-SDA churches, and she warns us of the fact that Satan will bring those teachings into our churches if we let down our guard. Therefore, it would be a mistake to think that our church should respond to the world and to other churches the way the early Adventists did in the 1840s and 50s. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: pkrause Ron Halvorsen is quite the guy. I've known him for many years. I didn't know him when he was running with gangs though. I didn't know about Halvorsen's background. During what years was he with the gangs and where was he? I suspect he was in NY but am not sure. I can't picture him in an LA street gang. All of them are black and Mex or Latino, but they do occasionally have some whites in them. Ron Halvorsen baptized me when I was 12 years old. He did some evangelistic meetings in our area, and told all about life in gangs in NYC. He came to our school too, which at the time I was going to an SDA school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 This "independant" group your post mentions? Millerites, not Seventh day Baptists. Following the Great Disapointment they also accepted the Investigative Judgment doctrine. It was THIS group, of Millerites, who preached, published and caught the attention of James and Ellen White. Before William Miller there was a Catholic Priest who concluded the 2,300 year prophecy was about to end. This in the early 1800's. He was excommunicated for his preaching on the issue. Before that, those Sabbath Keepers of the 1400's? They also identified the Catholic church as the beast of Revelation! God has always had a people who kept and preached the Sabbath and looked forward to His soon coming. Seventh-day Adventists have existed since Adam and Eve and never, not once in all the history of time, have they ever ceased to exist. They were scattered, persecuted, forced into isolation but never terminated, nor will they ever be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted August 13, 2011 Members Share Posted August 13, 2011 Ron Halvorsen baptized me when I was 12 years old. He did some evangelistic meetings in our area, and told all about life in gangs in NYC. He came to our school too, which at the time I was going to an SDA school. That's Richard. He married my wife and me. John the gang thing was probably in the 50s, and I believe it was in Brooklyn or Queens. The last time I saw him he was baptizing his older brother, it was the most moving baptism I have ever been to. There were no dry eyes that blessed day. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 13, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 13, 2011 There were actually many people around the world-- unconnected with each other-- who were preaching of Christ's soon return in 1844. SDAs should already be aware of this. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Should I assume your response to my post was meant for those who have taken a side on this issue? Adventism in itself is not a standalone phenomenon. It borrows a lot of different understandings from different people and denominations. It's a composite of different beliefs, and it builds on the road paved by the predecessors. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanus Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 He married my wife and me. Is that NOT illegal in the U.S.A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 That's Richard. He married my wife and me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: pkrause He married my wife and me. Is that NOT illegal in the U.S.A? lol That was cute! Sometimes we don't realize how a particular sentence, phrase, etc. will come across. Thanks for the laugh. But not at you, pk. I hope you know that. :) Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 This thinking that it's OK to invite a variety of different belief speakers to preach in our churches to "enlighten" us, is poison... I wonder, is this how the "emerging church" and/or this "new kind of prayer" sophistry have gained a foot hold within the Seventh-day Adventist church? I have no doubt. Emerging church, new age sympathizers, spiritualists and others are lining up to speak to various Conference gatherings and local churches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I am sure many would see it as poison....because they believe no one else has a relationship with God unless it is within the boundaries they have set up. I see that as poison, reminds me of the publican and the 'sinner' praying in the temple, and the parable of the wounded traveler by the wayside, etc, etc. I have not heard anyone suggesting the extreme speakers that we are being warned about be allowed to 'preach' before a gathering of any type of SDA's. That constant suggestion is a red-herring approach to the real issue...who has a relationship with God? Only SDA's? If any person can/does have such a relationship, then why is there the suggestion that what they have to say is not important, erroneous, inferior, etc, etc! If God can speak through an Ass or the rocks or what ever else, why the fear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Quote: If God can speak through an Ass or the rocks or what ever else, why the fear? This should be a sticky note somewhere in this thread :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 13, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 13, 2011 Quote: Many will stand in our pulpits with the torch of false prophecy in their hands, kindled from the hellish torch of Satan. . . . {LDE 179.3} As the people of God approach the perils of the last days, Satan holds earnest consultation with his angels as to the most successful plan of overthrowing their faith. He sees that the popular churches are already lulled to sleep by his deceptive power. By pleasing sophistry and lying wonders he can continue to hold them under his control. Therefore he directs his angels to lay their snares especially for those who are looking for the second advent of Christ and endeavoring to keep all the commandments of God. {TM 472.1} Says the great deceiver: .... "Until the great decisive blow shall be struck, our efforts against commandment keepers must be untiring. We must be present at all their gatherings. In their large meetings especially our cause will suffer much, and we must exercise great vigilance, and employ all our seductive arts to prevent souls from hearing the truth and becoming impressed by it. {TM 474.2} "I will have upon the ground, as my agents, men holding false doctrines mingled with just enough truth to deceive souls. I will also have unbelieving ones present who will express doubts in regard to the Lord's messages of warning to His church. Should the people read and believe these admonitions, we could have little hope of overcoming them. But if we can divert their attention from these warnings, they will remain ignorant of our power and cunning, and we shall secure them in our ranks at last. God will not permit His words to be slighted with impunity. If we can keep souls deceived for a time, God's mercy will be withdrawn, and He will give them up to our full control. {TM 475.1} "We must cause distraction and division. We must destroy their anxiety for their own souls, and lead them to criticize, to judge, and to accuse and condemn one another, and to cherish selfishness and enmity. For these sins, God banished us from His presence; and all who follow our example will meet a similar fate." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 13, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 13, 2011 Quote: Satan takes the control of every mind that is not decidedly under the control of the Spirit of God. {TM 79} We shall encounter false claims; false prophets will arise; there will be false dreams and false visions; but preach the Word, be not drawn away from the voice of God in His Word. Let nothing divert the mind. The wonderful, the marvelous, will be represented and presented. Through satanic delusions, wonderful miracles, the claims of human agents will be urged. Beware of all this. {2SM 49.1} Christ has given warning, so that none need accept falsehood for truth. The only channel through which the Spirit operates is that of the truth. . . . Our faith and hope are founded, not in feeling, but in God.--Letter 12, 1894. {2SM 49.2} Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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