Non-SDA Speakers banned?

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

...This below may be true of some various segments of Adventist congregations. However as Pastor Ron Halvorsen once said, "If you are looking for a perfect church, as soon as you walk into it, it would no longer be perfect".

Wow-- ain't that the truth! That's something I will have to remember. So true and so important for all of us to think about-- every Sabbath we're at church, especially.

Always good to hear from you, John.

God blesses!

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

...This below may be true of some various segments of Adventist congregations. However as Pastor Ron Halvorsen once said, "If you are looking for a perfect church, as soon as you walk into it, it would no longer be perfect".

Wow-- ain't that the truth! That's something I will have to remember. So true and so important for all of us to think about-- every Sabbath we're at church, especially.

Ron Halvorsen is quite the guy. I've known him for many years. I didn't know him when he was running with gangs though.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

........... it's not good forum netigutte or good manners to copy/paste a post and leave no comment. This applies to anyone on any subject. on any thread. Some like to simply post lenghty bible verses, others lengthy EGW quotes. Not cool without leaving some comment or explanation. As a moderator, you especially should know this.

Neither is it proper to take personal issues and post them for everyone to read. It should be done in a PM.

[Barrington]

I agree with the president if TD Jakes was being invited to share to us something that only we should teach ourselves. If he was invited simply because he is a great motiviational speaker and he is black, then that is not good enough. That's only sensational. On the other hand, I could invite as a guest speaker like Jakes to present another point of view (along with other ministers from other faiths). That would be a good dialogue. This is what we do with the Professioanl Ministerial Seminars each year via television and statellite around the world. Sometimes there are only two out of four of the speakers who are Adventists.

I would like to know what was the intention of inviting TD Jakes. Another view of mine is that we Adventists are to insular. We can freely decide to preach in other non-Adventist Churches but would not allow them to preach in our churches. By the way, the Brethern Churches are even more strick. It is virtually impossible to preach in one of there services. I even had a great difficulty getting Andrews University Singers (who visited Nassau years ago) to sing in their church. It was like pulling teeth. Back to the point. I have preached in Anglical, Catholic, Baptist, Church of God, non-denominatl churches, many of them. It is my view that when we do not invite them to speak in our churches we are setting up ourselves and spiritually superior.

May be Ted Wilson is right, especially if the motives of having TD jakes were not correct. On the other hand, perhaps he could have taught us something. in my book, it would not have been a "sin" to have him, nor 'dangersous."

[teresaq]

For example, we learned about the sabbath from a Seventh-day Baptist.

I guess if the Bible is not the foundation of your belief one could agree with this comment.

Quote:

Adventism in itself is not a standalone phenomenon. It borrows a lot of different understandings from different people and denominations. It's a composite of different beliefs, and it builds on the road paved by the predecessors.

...

[CoAspen]

Welcome, thanks for the input!!!

It is always good to have the viewpoint of a pastor!

[teresaq]

Thank you CV. I pray that God especially blesses you with all that I wish for myself.

...

teresaq(sda), it's not good forum netigutte or good manners to copy/paste a post and leave no comment. This applies to anyone on any subject. on any thread. Some like to simply post lenghty bible verses, others lengthy EGW quotes. Not cool without leaving some comment or explanation. As a moderator, you especially should know this.

[teresaq]

Yes, I agree that LeRoy Moore tried to be very fair to both sides of issues without judgmentalism.

...

Someone who has done a good job that you can study, who I believe made a oneness of the truth and is ballanced is the writings of LeRoy Moore, such as (now I thought this book was "The Theology Crisis" but I've seen it referred to as "Theology in Crisis") and his book about Questions on Doctrine. Also I had sent you a link of some studies in Mrs. White's studies that I believe are well ballanced and ponts out the problems with both Ford and Spears.

[fccool]

I agree with the president if TD Jakes was being invited to share to us something that only we should teach ourselves. If he was invited simply because he is a great motiviational speaker and he is black, then that is not good enough. That's only sensational. On the other hand, I could invite as a guest speaker like Jakes to present another point of view (along with other ministers from other faiths). That would be a good dialogue. This is what we do with the Professioanl Ministerial Seminars each year via television and statellite around the world. Sometimes there are only two out of four of the speakers who are Adventists.

I think it's a very good point inasmuch that both Adventism and other Protestant beliefs are misunderstood and misrepresented. There have to be inter-faith dialogue that would allow for some reconciliation and mutual respect that's void of labels and resentment. I believe that Adventists are misunderstood by protestants, and protestants are misunderstood by Adventists on many levels. Perhaps I can show and explain some of these misconceptions in a different thread.

I find it unfortunate that in many such cases the actions are driven by pride, fear, and misunderstanding. I'm not sure about this particular instance, because I'm not familiar with Jakes. But, as I understood, the appeal was universal. I.e. don't give non-SDA speakers the same pulpit as SDA speakers.

I would like to respectfully disagree. I believe that most people in my local church would likewise disagree.

[ClubV12]

CoAspen, "cut and paste" is a recurring problem, on this and many forums. It's not good form, it's not good netiquette.

teresaq(sda), I find your holier than thou attitude as rude as your cut and paste posting.

I suppose we could learn something from any speaker at any time, but that carries a certain risk as well. Ted Wilson was very clear that there is a time and place for any speaker. Seventh day Baptists had their time, place and subject matter.

In Ted Wilsons opinion, and I concur, this meeting was neither the time or the place or the subject for our leaders to hear this speaker. He did not rule out every speaker, in every church, every time. As some posts would lead us to believe.

I find it rather frightening that there appears to be from some no place for discernment on these matters as it regards speakers to our churches. Even THIS forum exercises discernment as to what may be posted at any given time. There isn't a moderator on this site who has not exercised the right to "moderate". Ted Wilson is no different in that regard. He chose to moderate, there will always be some who disagree with a moderator. When it comes to leadership, we should exercise caution in regards to how we express that disagreement.

[teresaq]

Thank you, CV. May God bless you as richly as I pray that He will bless me.

teresaq(sda), I find your holier than thou attitude as rude as your cut and paste posting.

[ClubV12]

How ironic to use christian words in a sarcastic manner and then expect your prayer to go any higher than the ceiling of your room.

[teresaq]

Thank you CV. I do pray that God will richly bless you.

[teresaq]

Since Adventism is so fractured, I wonder which of our speakers/pastors, etc., is "safe" to listen to. Stan, would you see the question as inline with your op, or off-topic?

[Guest]

Thank you, CV. May God bless you as richly as I pray that He will bless me.

I know what That prayer means. At least you're trying to work a program, or so it would seem.

[Guest]

When was the last time T.D. Jakes invited a SDA to speak to his congregation? Better yet, when was the last time ANY Sunday keeping denomination invited us to come and speak to their people?

Why would they do that? Why would we?

[Kevin H]

When was the last time T.D. Jakes invited a SDA to speak to his congregation? Better yet, when was the last time ANY Sunday keeping denomination invited us to come and speak to their people?

Why would they do that? Why would we?

During the last several decades of her life Mrs. White was a very popular preacher in Sunday keeping denominations. At Andrews, in the White Estate Vault, I read a paper (but have not been able to confirm the information in other sources) that P. T. Barnum had hired Mrs. White to do a lecture tour on health. Billy Sunday hired Adventists to work on his team. We have Chaplain Berry Black, who was chief of Chaplains for the Navy and then chaplain for the senate who is a very popular speaker in different churches. Dr. Ben Carlson, Aunt Sue of "Your Story Hour" was very active in the Dorcus society of her church, this and her radio ministry got her into contact with other churches where she was frequently asked to speak, and when she died there were many clergy from a wide range of religious backgrounds attending and speaking at her funeral telling about what a blessing she was to the community and their ccongragations. There are others. When I was at Andrews, the Benton Harbor Synagogue was between Rabbi's for a couple of months and one of our doctoral students had been the conference president for the Israeli Mission and they asked him to come and cover the services until the new Rabbi had settled in. Felix Lorenze Jr. not only is invited to speak in Sunday keeping churches, he has spent his retirement pastoring churches who otherwise would have to disband because they could not afford a pastor, as their church does not have a pastoral salary system set up like ours has. John Portany while pastoring a small church in upstate New York had the Sunday Keeping church in town ask him to be their pastor as well and asked the conference to share him with them. The church cannot afford to hire all the ministers we train and some have to find employment elsewhere and often they go into other ministries but just because that is where they get their paycheck does not make them any less an Adventist or any less active in our churches. We have some Adventists who are magicians who are asked to give gospel magic presentations in other churches. Some who are involved in family life and our health ministries get invited to teach about family and health issues. Adventist scholars talk in archaeological societies and society for Biblical Literature, and churches who are interested in that information have them come as speakers on topics of Biblical History, archaeology, etc. Biblical Studies are still Biblical studies no matter what faith you are and several of our members are subject matter experts who are sought out for their expertise. Many of our singers get invited to non-Adventist churches. Heritage Singers, New England Youth Ensemble, etc. etc etc. I hope this starts to answer your question.

[ClubV12]

teresaq(sda) says,

"Since Adventism is so fractured, I wonder which of our speakers/pastors, etc., is "safe" to listen to."

There are several levels that need to addressed with this question. The Conference level, the local level and the individual level.

Leadership is the first line of defense to give the trumpet a certain sound when the enemy of souls is approaching the camp. The highest level for Seventh-day Adventists is currently Ted Wilson. If he fails to discern the enemy within the camp, fails to give a warning, blood will be on his hands.

At the local level it next falls to the Pastor to protect his flock. Within the local church other church leaders also share this obligation of warning. The Elders, the counsel of the brethren, the men of long experience and heavenly discernment. It is their solem duty to protect the flock.

It would be wonderful if ALL our Pastors would be speaking in a Sunday church every weekend! Certainly not vice versa!

Finally, and most important of all, is the individual level. We are told that men, powerful men with excellent speaking skills, will from the pulpit bring new and startling messages to our people. Their sophistry and apparent truth will lie so close to the real truth it will be impossible for us to discern which path is correct. Our ONLY hope is the Holy Spirit. Without that power even the very elect WILL be deceived! No man, no matter his intelligence, his experience will be able to discern truth from error without the Holy Spirit.

"Management", at any level, is always privy to details the "people" are not aware of. Leaders base their decisions on a more complete picture of an issue than we typically have. Lacking these details we are tempted to murmur, complain, question leadership, cause division within the ranks and gossip.

Leaders are not always perfect, but they are ALWAYS allowed to come to power through the will of God, who will work through them to achieve His purposes. He will not withold any good thing from us.

[Guest]

I hope this starts to answer your question.

Nope. Most of the reasons you just gave for being invited have nothing to do with religion. So it's not at all the same.

[John317]

Ron Halvorsen is quite the guy. I've known him for many years. I didn't know him when he was running with gangs though.

I didn't know about Halvorsen's background. During what years was he with the gangs and where was he? I suspect he was in NY but am not sure.

I can't picture him in an LA street gang. All of them are black and Mex or Latino, but they do occasionally have some whites in them.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

For example, we learned about the sabbath from a Seventh-day Baptist.

Not only that, but judging from the recent sense of a need to follow what the Word advises, as below indicated,

"Confess to one another therefore your faults (your slips, your false steps, your offenses, your sins) and pray [also] for one another, that you may be healed and restored [to a spiritual tone of mind and heart]. The earnest (heartfelt, continued) prayer of a righteous man makes tremendous power available [dynamic in its working]."James 5:16 AMP

Parenthesis brackets their's LHC

there appears to be many sinners preaching from our pulpits.

God blesses!

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Kevin H

I hope this starts to answer your question.

Nope. Most of the reasons you just gave for being invited have nothing to do with religion. So it's not at all the same.

I don't understand why not, please clarify

[teresaq]

Given the sequence of posts I'm having a hard time following your line of thought. Do you believe we are wrong for accepting the sabbath from a non-SDA?

Adventism in itself is not a standalone phenomenon. It borrows a lot of different understandings from different people and denominations. It's a composite of different beliefs, and it builds on the road paved by the predecessors.

[ClubV12]

Actually, "we" accepted the Sabbath from the Millerite movement, who had already accepted the 2,300 year prophecy AND the concept of the Investigative judgment. God was leading a people who came out of many different beliefs. That was then, this is now. Our message, like the original Millerite message, is to go out to the world. There was a group of believers who published tracts in the 1400's concerning the Sabbath truth. There has ALWAYS been a group somewhere keeping the Sabbath.

But back to the main point, this is what Wilson said in the early part of the video link.

"Avoid the practice of inviting major spiritual speakers who are not Seventh-day Adventists. Avoid having them speak to church meetings, mens meetings, womens meetings, retreats, Pastoral meetings, youth meetings and large convocations.... I am not talking about refusing or not inviting civic, government or religious leaders who attend a meeting. We need to make friends with these people. We need to share our faith with them. But what I am talking about is asking them to give a major spiritual presentation, where they probably simply do not, have the concept of the Great Controversy.... We certainly can learn from others, who are not members and we should encourage them in their own walk with the Lord, to find truth."

I don't have a problem with that, I think it is a well balanced statement. Just about any church would take the same position, if they intend to protect their flock!

[Tallmark]

First Jakes, then Jeremiah Wright Jr. No thanks. I don't want these racists speaking in my denomination.