God's Design for Man and Woman

[Guest]

Not sure, but I think Musicmans theology is that God created a LOT of people AND Adam

and Eve. And then something about devils having sex with "mankind" and producing offspring.

I don't know, the details are so far off the chart it's hard to keep up with the twists and turns.

[John317]

[miz3]

Here are some of the questions we're looking at:

Quote:

1) God made Adam first and gave only him the responsibility of walking all over the Garden for the purpose of naming the animals.

2)Before Eve was created, God gave Adam the commandment not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge.

3) Eve was alone at the tree at the time she was tempted and ate of the forbidden fruit.

4) Immediately after Eve ate of the forbidden tree, and before Adam chose to eat of it, all humanity was condemned.

5) If Adam had remained true to God, the Lord would have made him another companion to take the place of Eve.

6) Sin came upon all mankind through the sin of one man.

7) After sin, God made woman the head of the man.

8) In the Garden the woman was to protect the man.

9) When God first created Eve, she was taller than the man.

10) We have reason to believe that if Adam had been the first to eat of the forbidden fruit, God would have made Eve another companion to take Adam's place.

11) Adam was given specific instruction not to leave Eve's side.

12) Eve was given specific instructions not to leave Adam's side because it would be easier for her to Fall for Satan's temptations if she were alone.

John317, could you go through each one of these twelve points citing and quoting the references for why each one of these items is true.

Thank you.

[doug yowell]

John317, could you go through each one of these twelve points citing and quoting the references for why each one of these items is true.

Are you assuming that each one of these items is true?

[John317]

Great point, doug. :-)

Such an assumption would make no sense since the questions are conveyed in such a way as to make it utterly impossible for all of them to be true.

[Musicman1228]

#3 is another example of misreading Scripture, based on tradition. We have been taught by EGW and others that Eve was alone when she was tempted at the Tree of the Learning of the Knowledge of Good an Evil. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. Adam was right there with her as she was tempted and as she ate of the fruit of the tree. What was going on in Adam's head? What was he thinking during this event?

Here is the proof text:

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Gen. 3:6.

[John317]

...John317, could you go through each one of these twelve points citing and quoting the references for why each one of these items is true.

I would if each item were true.

Would you please first answer the question as to what you believe about them and why?

[John317]

#3 is another example of misreading Scripture, based on tradition. We have been taught by EGW and others that Eve was alone when she was tempted at the Tree of the Learning of the Knowledge of Good an Evil.

Thank you for pointing out that in order to believe that Adam and Eve were together at the tree of knowledge, one would first need to reject Ellen White's plain statement.

Quote:

Here is the proof text:

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Gen. 3:6.

That text doesn't prove that Adam and Eve were together at the tree. All that text says is that she gave some of the fruit to the companion that God gave to Eve to be with her in the Garden.

It's foolishness to think it is telling us Adam was with her at the time she gave him the fruit.

Where else is Adam going to be when she gave him the fruit? She couldn't very well give him the fruit when he wasn't with her, could she?

That proves it is not saying she was with him when she gave him the fruit. "With her" has reference to the fact that he was her companion in the Garden-- the one whom God gave her to protect her. Adam should have protected her from Satan's temptations, but he didn't. Instead, she took of the fruit and then tempted him with it, and he took of it and ate it just like she had.

Many Christians and Jews have believed on the basis of the Bible narrative that Eve was alone at the tree. So it has nothing to do with Ellen White. The great poet, John Milton, never heard of Ellen White, yet he wrote that Eve was alone at the tree. Many great Bible commentators have made the same conclusion.

There are many Bible reasons to believe that Eve was alone and not with Adam when she ate of the forbidden fruit. We can go over some of those reasons in detail if you like.

[John317]

... Adam was right there with her as she was tempted and as she ate of the fruit of the tree. What was going on in Adam's head? What was he thinking during this event?

Excellent questions. Please answer them for us.

Let's suppose for sake of argument that Adam is standing there and hearing the conversation between Satan and Eve.

First of all, Adam loves Eve, does he not?

Does Adam say a word? No. He stands like a dumb dog that doesn't bark.

Does Adam believe in talking snakes? No.

Why not? Because Adam knows the animals and knows snakes don't talk.

Does Eve believe snakes can talk? Evidently.

Does Satan say anything to Adam? No, not a single word.

Does Adam later blame Satan? No. Evidently he wasn't tempted by Satan.

Does Eve blame Adam? No, not a bit.

But shouldn't she have blamed Adam a little bit if he stood by and said nothing while she ate of the fruit?

Why didn't Adam warn her? The sensible answer is that Adam wasn't there at the time Eve was tempted and ate of the fruit.

Who does Adam blame? Eve. Evidently Eve is the one who tempted Adam. That is what all the evidence supports.

No wonder so many Christians have believed Eve was alone when she was tempted. Just like Ellen White wrote. And just like great thinkers and writers like John Milton believed.

So then, MM, what do you believe Adam was thinking at the tree of knowledge? What does the evidence show?

[doug yowell]

Are the following true statements or false?

Feel free to answer them any way you believe.

1) God made Adam first and gave only him the responsibility of walking all over the Garden for the purpose of naming the animals.

Being a stickler for wording, I'd have to partially disagree with this one. Gen. 2:19 indicates that Adam didn't have to walk the garden in order to name the animals but rather God brought the animals to him, obviously saving him the exhausting duty of having to chase them down himself.

Other than that I'm going with a true,based upon that same reference.

[miz3]

Great point, doug. :-)

Such an assumption would make no sense since the questions are conveyed in such a way as to make it utterly impossible for all of them to be true.

To be more clear. Give the correct answer and the reference that shows what the correct answer is.

Is that better?

[doug yowell]

Are the following true statements or false?

Feel free to answer them any way you believe.

1) God made Adam first...

The Divinely Inspired apostle Paul refers back to this historical fact(I Tim. 2:13)in order to assist Bible believers in understanding that there was purposeful design in the original creation order.God forsaw the truthfulness of the addage "too many chiefs, not enough Indians" and sought to avoid the inevitable problems by instituting levels of authority among equals. This was/is in harmony with the previously violated heavenly model.

[doug yowell]

To be more clear. Give the correct answer and the reference that shows what the correct answer is.

Is that better?

Yes, thank you. That's more better.

[doug yowell]

2)Before Eve was created, God gave Adam the commandment not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge.

While Scripture is not explicit about this one It certainly is implied by the progressive nature of the narritive of Gen.2, particularly v.16 where the Word states that "the Lord God commanded THE man."

So I'm checking true for #2.

[John317]

I believe you're right, doug. The Bible narrative shows that God gave the command to the man, and then a little later God made Eve.

[John317]

Being a stickler for wording, I'd have to partially disagree with this one. Gen. 2:19 indicates that Adam didn't have to walk the garden in order to name the animals but rather God brought the animals to him, obviously saving him the exhausting duty of having to chase them down himself.

Other than that I'm going with a true,based upon that same reference.

You're right, doug. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out. It's important to get that right.

I'll change it because, as you point out, Adam's walking around is not the main part of the question.

[John317]

To be more clear. Give the correct answer and the reference that shows what the correct answer is.

Is that better?

Yes, and I will eventually do this, but first I would love to see what you think about the questions before I give the answers.

Could you please tell what you believe?

[doug yowell]

Are the following true statements or false?

Feel free to answer them any way you believe.

3) Eve was alone at the tree at the time she was tempted and ate of the forbidden fruit.

This ? I find a little more difficult to answer with absolute assurance based on the Biblical account alone.Here's my reason: The account of Eve's temptation begins in the dialogue between the serpent and her.It does not specifically indicate that she was already at the tree looking with interest. I find it Biblically plausible that the actual temptation began apart from the location of the tree,and her belief in the arguments of the serpent then led her to explore for herself.Apart from the locale part I think the Bible account is pretty well self explanitory that Eve acted on her own, alone.

So, yes on #3.

[John317]

I'd love to know your thoughts on post #473606 where I argue the case that Eve was alone at the tree, apart from Adam, at the time of her temptation and her Fall.

[doug yowell]

Hey, this is fun! It would be even more fun if there were a substantial financial reward at the end. Maybe Stan can throw in a free year's membership (along with pizza---vegan,of course)to help sweeten the pot.

[ClubV12]

Doug, thank God we don't have to rely solely on the bible and the bible alone for insights to biblical history.

These insights were not the primary reason for the Lord raising up a prophet for our time, but it's reassuring. The writings of Sister White are filled with many interesting details and insights.

[John317]

LOL

OK, here's what we can do. If you get all the answers correct-- I mean according to the biblical and SoP evidence-- I will buy you a ticket to the game tonight at the Inland 66ers. They are in the playoffs. It should be a great game. Starts 7:00 PM Monday night. Hope you can come.

[John317]

That's for sure. I think we need to take advantage of all the help we can get from Inspiration.

[doug yowell]

Are the following true statements or false?

Feel free to answer them any way you believe.

.

4) Immediately after Eve ate of the forbidden tree, and before Adam chose to eat of it, all humanity was condemned.

If the answer to this would be yes it would contradict the answer of the Scriptures which state expressly on numerous occasions (Rom.5:12-19,I Cor.15:21,22,49 I Tim.2:14,ect...) that the responsibility for humanity's condemnation rested upon Adam's shoulders. This also indicates the greater designed responsibility that God created Adam to exercise.

No on #4.

[doug yowell]

Doug, thank God we don't have to rely solely on the bible and the bible alone for insights to biblical history.

These insights were not the primary reason for the Lord raising up a prophet for our time, but it's reassuring. The writings of Sister White are filled with many interesting details and insights.

Yes, this is true, but there are many here at CA who don't accept any authority outside of the Bible alone. (And many who don't really accept the Bible either.)God's Word must and can, stand on It's own.Like Bob, I try to appeal to the openminded by pointing to the only Source of Absolute Truth. "So shall you prosper" is an added perk.