Moderators John317 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2011 After the creation of Adam, God said, It is not good that man should be alone; I will make a helper comparable to him. God gave Adam a companion fitted for him, who would be one with him in love and sympathy. Eve was created from a rib taken from Adam's side. She was not to control him as the head, nor to be trampled under his feet as an inferior, but to stand by his side as an equal, loved and protected by him. She was his second self, showing the close union that should exist in this relationship. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one (Ephesians 5:29; Genesis 2:24). {BOE 13.2} I've come to believe that Eve was created in order to make Adam whole. Man and woman together make the true image of God. The male alone is not the whole image of God. God's image is best seen in the human race in the marriage relationship as God intended it. Two males together don't make the whole image of God, neither do two females together. I believe that's why Satan has created the situations where a male is with another male, etc. He likes this because it destroys the image of God in man. Satan can't attack God personally so he does it through hurting and attacking things that God loves. God loves gay people and is out to save & heal them. Quote: The Eden home of our first parents was prepared for them by God Himself. When He had furnished it with everything that man could desire, He said: "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness." . . . {AH 25.1} The Lord was pleased with this last and noblest of all His creatures, and designed that he should be the perfect inhabitant of a perfect world. But it was not His purpose that man should live in solitude. He said: "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." {AH 25.2} God Himself gave Adam a companion. He provided "an help meet for him"--a helper corresponding to him--one who was fitted to be his companion, and who could be one with him in love and sympathy. Eve was created from a rib taken from the side of Adam, signifying that she was not to control him as the head, nor to be trampled under his feet as an inferior, but to stand by his side as an equal, to be loved and protected by him. A part of man, bone of his bone, and flesh of his flesh, she was his second self; showing the close union and the affectionate attachment that should exist in this relation. "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it." "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one." {AH 25.3} First Marriage Performed by God.--God celebrated the first marriage. Thus the institution has for its originator the Creator of the universe. "Marriage is honourable"; it was one of the first gifts of God to man, and it is one of the two institutions that, after the fall, Adam brought with him beyond the gates of Paradise. When the divine principles are recognized and obeyed in this relation, marriage is a blessing; it guards the purity and happiness of the race, it provides for man's social needs, it elevates the physical, the intellectual, and the moral nature. {AH 25.4} He who gave Eve to Adam as a helpmeet performed His first miracle at a marriage festival. In the festal hall where friends and kindred rejoiced together, Christ began His public ministry. Thus He sanctioned marriage, recognizing it as an institution that He Himself had established. . . . {AH 26.1} Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2011 What is mean by "an help meet" when used in reference to Adam and Eve? I think a good example would be if we compare Adam to a screw. Without a bolt, the screw is useless. Or compare Adam to a wrench. A wrench is useless by itself. A wrench needs something else in order to be useful and have meaning. So "a help meet" refers to Eve as someone who complements Adam-- she was fitted just for him and made him able to be the person God created him to be. Without her, Adam would have been without purpose. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 And both (the screw and the bolt) need Someone to be the screwdriver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 John, methinks you are going too far in stating that if a man is not married he is without purpose and cannot reflect the image of God. Jesus came to this world and did not take a wife and yet as a man he reflected the image of God perfectly and he is our example. The wife is a help-mate, not the saviour. To say that one needs a wife in order for the image of God to be restored in him is not scriptural. Christ is the image of God and each one of us individually through the Gospel can be re-created in the image of God through Christ who is the image of God. The matter of salvation is an individual matter married or not. "Let him (married or not married) that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Rev.22:17. "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever (married or not married) believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16. sky :) Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 As far as the Bible and the Bible only is concerned we do not know how the relationship "nuts and bolts" worked before the fall. Yet we do know clearly from Scripture that everything that has been revealed about the workings of God's kingdom and the following principles that result in CONTROL and not CHAOS include a chain of authority. And that in both the perfect and sinful worlds. It reasonably follows that if sin was not present to warp the perceptions and intents of created beings that there would be no questioning of the right or wrong of the existence of a "higher" authority.It works and everybody is still "equal". PS. Pecking order is not the best way to describe the heavenly chain of command.Pecking order best describes the description of Jesus in Matt.20:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I think a good example would be if we compare Adam to a screw. Without a bolt, the screw is useless. The bolt and the screw serve basically the same function. But screws don't need a nut in order to function,only bolts do. Unfortunately,most women don't grasp this important difference. They still think men are nuts that are all screwed up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 And yet, there are two screws loose on the gate to my fence. They do not have a nut to secure them in place and the gate sways whenever the wind blows. What are you trying to say when you say that "screws don't need a nut in order to function, only bolts do"? Are you trying to say that there are two types of men--screws and bolts, or are you trying to say that there is one type of man who can function with or without a nut (and thus, making the same mistake as John did when he alluded to bolts being necessary for screws)? The fact remains that neither men, nor women are screws, nuts, or bolts; screwdrivers, drills, or hammers. Both can "function" with or without the other. Some function better when paired with a partner, some function better without a partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2011 John, methinks you are going too far in stating that if a man is not married he is without purpose and cannot reflect the image of God. Jesus came to this world and did not take a wife and yet as a man he reflected the image of God perfectly and he is our example. The wife is a help-mate, not the saviour. LOL. You misunderstand me. I simply mean that God intends man to be with woman. I don't mean that every man must be married. However, it is true that as a general rule, men and woman don't feel complete without a mate. There are some who don't want to marry, and that is OK, but if the whole world did that, humans would die off. Fortunately God put within the human race a desire to be with a member of the opposite sex. It is also true that a man and a woman together best reflect the image of God. That is why God calls them both together "man." None of this means that a man alone or a woman alone is not in the image of God. You're right that woman is not man's savior. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2011 lol Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2011 And both (the screw and the bolt) need Someone to be the screwdriver. Hah, yes-- you're so right. That would be God. Instead of the "bolt," I should have said "nut." Some people are thinking that this example means man is useless without woman, and vice versa. But that would be pushing the illustration too far. Every illustration can be pushed too far, and this one is no exception. The idea is simply that God didn't make the male or the female to be alone but to be together. This isn't a put down of those who are single for whatever reason. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2011 The fact remains that neither men, nor women are screws, nuts, or bolts; screwdrivers, drills, or hammers. Both can "function" with or without the other. Some function better when paired with a partner, some function better without a partner. You're pushing the illustration too far here. It doesn't mean that every single human must be with a partner. What we're saying is that God made man to be with woman, not that this applies to every single man or every single woman. :-) Yes, every man and woman individually can function without a partner, but they can't function completely as God intended us to without a partner. God's first command to humans was to "be fruitful and multiply." Obviously no one can do that apart from a partner of the opposite sex. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Okay. Have your illustration back. It's yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 The 144,000 are vigins, they are married to Christ. There is nothing else in this world to distract them from the single goal of pleasing Him always and in all ways. They are awaiting translation. I submit, the 144,000 are not married, they are single, they are the bride of Christ and Him alone. HOW and WHEN they got single could be debated, but they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2011 What illustration do you think would be appropriate to show God's design for man and woman? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2011 I submit, the 144,000 are not married, they are single, they are the bride of Christ and Him alone. HOW and WHEN they got single could be debated, but they are. Don't you think it's talking about being spiritual virgins? That is, these people are spirtually faithful to Christ. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 What are you trying to say when you say that "screws don't need a nut in order to function, only bolts do"? Are you trying to say that there are two types of men--screws and bolts, or are you trying to say that there is one type of man who can function with or without a nut (and thus, making the same mistake as John did when he alluded to bolts being necessary for screws)? Obviously my conclusion was deeply complex and should be immediately referred to Overage, our resident handyman, for analysis. Perhaps he can unravel this confusing analogy for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Think there are several layers to the description of the 144,000 being virgins. Not a literal translation of course, spiritual virgins is a good application. First love is another, a deep love like nothing ever experienced before. Dedication, even the thought of being with another never crosses your mind for an instant, it is inconceivable. Every breath is a prayer, a praise. Nothing can distract them, no spouse, no family, ALL are perfectly united in their quest to serve and praise God. This group moves as one, even though they may be physically separated, they are spiritually connected, as the angels are spiritually connected. United in a singular goal of worship. On the cusp of translation, awaiting heaven, the concept of earthly marriage has passed. They are married to the Lamb. Carefully moving into a what I hope will be a "sanctified imagination zone" not a speculation zone: What IF two people who are married are among the 144,000? What if they remain together, during the time of trouble when character development is being polished to fit them for translation? I think they will live and move and act as "one", but not with each other. But as members of that special group who have drawn so close to Jesus "personal relationships" have become secondary. A change is/has taken place. Their entire focus is on Jesus and Him alone. They are as virgins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Originally Posted By: ClubV12 I submit, the 144,000 are not married, they are single, they are the bride of Christ and Him alone. HOW and WHEN they got single could be debated, but they are. Don't you think it's talking about being spiritual virgins? That is, these people are spirtually faithful to Christ. Is the thread meant to discuss the original design,the individual design,the eternal design, or all of the above in no particular order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 How about "New Testament" time? Where Paul states it would be preferable to remain single. Does that counsel apply more, or less, in todays modern age? As we draw closer to the end of time I think it applies even more now than in His time. What is God's ideal plan TODAY as it concerns marriage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 dont get me started! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 16, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 16, 2011 Is the thread meant to discuss the original design,the individual design,the eternal design, or all of the above in no particular order? Firstly,the original design for unfallen man and woman, and secondly the design of God for fallen man and woman. I know the exchanges seem to go off topic a good bit. I would like to see it stay somewhat close to the topic. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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