Lay Sister White to one Side

[lazarus]

Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don't you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don't you give a rap any more what "Sister White said"-- "Sister White said this," and "Sister White said that," and "Sister White said the other thing." But say, "Thus saith the Lord God of Israel," and then you do just what the Lord God of Israel does, and what he says.

Spalding and Megan Collection 169 (Unpublished manuscripts)

[Stan]

[ClubV12]

Ironic,,, quoting Sister White to suggest we stop quoting Sister White!

This quote is about:

Taking Sister White quotes OUT OF CONTEXT. The irony is, that is what the posted quote here is doing because we lack the background!!

The year is 1901, Battle Creek, at the General Conference. This is a talk she gave to leaders of the General Conference and other Conference attendees concerning "kingly power". The work of God was being restrained because everything had to be cleared through leadership. Quotes from Sister White were commonly used to support the "kingly power" position they had staked out. It was said the GC was the voice of God on earth, (and it is, when in session and properly represented) but NOT when the power is held by a few men, in or out of session. Men who would make that claim (the voice of God) year round and use it to abuse power. The work in the South was suffering because they refused funds (tithe money for one example) to promote that work. All over the country in general sanitariums, churches, medical missionairies were denied funding, based on the decisions of a few men of power.

At this same talk she gave some additional examples:

"They will tell you that Sister White did this, or Sister White did that,--for instance, "Sister White ate cheese, and so we are all at liberty to eat cheese." Who told them that I ate cheese? I never have cheese on my table."

Spalding and Magan Collection, pg 169. Leaves-Of-Autumn Books.

Another says, "Sister White drinks tea, and we can drink tea." Who of my brethren has made that statement? Who has ever heard it of me? I never have tea in my home or set it before anyone. Now I have not eaten any meat for years and years. Spalding and Magan Collection. (169). Leaves-Of-Autumn Books.

[skyblue888]

Ironic,,, quoting Sister White to suggest we stop quoting Sister White!

This quote is about:

Taking Sister White quotes OUT OF CONTEXT. The irony is, that is what the posted quote here is doing because we lack the background!!

The year is 1901, Battle Creek, at the General Conference. This is a talk she gave to leaders of the General Conference and other Conference attendees concerning "kingly power". The work of God was being restrained because everything had to be cleared through leadership. Quotes from Sister White were commonly used to support the "kingly power" position they had staked out. It was said the GC was the voice of God on earth, (and it is, when in session and properly represented) but NOT when the power is held by a few men, in or out of session. Men who would make that claim (the voice of God) year round and use it to abuse power. The work in the South was suffering because they refused funds (tithe money for one example) to promote that work. All over the country in general sanitariums, churches, medical missionairies were denied funding, based on the decisions of a few men of power.

At this same talk she gave some additional examples:

"They will tell you that Sister White did this, or Sister White did that,--for instance, "Sister White ate cheese, and so we are all at liberty to eat cheese." Who told them that I ate cheese? I never have cheese on my table."

Spalding and Magan Collection, pg 169. Leaves-Of-Autumn Books.

Another says, "Sister White drinks tea, and we can drink tea." Who of my brethren has made that statement? Who has ever heard it of me? I never have tea in my home or set it before anyone. Now I have not eaten any meat for years and years. Spalding and Magan Collection. (169). Leaves-Of-Autumn Books.

Now that is a great post Club and very important quotes.

Thanks for sharing them with us.

I totally agree.

sky

[Overaged]

Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don't you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don't you give a rap any more what "Sister White said"-- "Sister White said this," and "Sister White said that," and "Sister White said the other thing." But say, "Thus saith the Lord God of Israel," and then you do just what the Lord God of Israel does, and what he says.

Spalding and Megan Collection 169 (Unpublished manuscripts)

[ClubV12]

So, I'm bringing a big hunk of cheese to the next church social with a little post card with this quote on it to set next to the cheese.

Sister White says,

"Sister White ate cheese, and so we are all at liberty to eat cheese."

or,,, maybe not...

[Overaged]

Make sure it's Havarti, and bring some red onions and honey-mustard

[Gordon1]

Cheese is a huge sacred cow. As children we were raised to welcome it as health food. (Madison Avenue) But it brings bad skin, constipation and mucus - catarrh is the term employed by EGW. And of course heart disease, strokes and a spare tire. While meat & dairy bring sickness, cheese has been especially earmarked for exclusion:

"it is wholly unfit for food." Ministry of Healing 302.

"Cheese should never be introduced into the stomach" 2 Testimonies 68.

"...enfeebling the intellect..." Counsels on Health 114.

[lazarus]

Club v12, BTW the quote was not provided to say that we stop quoting Sis White. That would be making a superficial judgement about my motivations.

So now you have kindly provided the context what are the principles what we can draw from the quote?

[Gordon1]

...so somewhat ironic that its status is potluck-protected.

But with good reason pastor Lazarus asks for Bible, as he is leading a congregation.

Leviticus 3:17 - "It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood."

[John317]

What is the context of those words, Lazarus?

Notice what she says:

Quote:

Don't you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God.

The context is that Ellen White was talking to a man who was abusing her writings. According to her statement, this was also someone who hadn't learned to take the Bible as his food, etc.

Ellen White always taught that we should first study and accept the Bible before studying the SoP.

If we read and accept all of Ellen White's writings, we won't be confused about what she was saying in the above quote. The problem comes when we don't make the Bible our primary focus, when we don't consider everything she wrote on a particular topic and fail to take into account the context of her statements.

[ClubV12]

Lazarus, I felt a little bit bad about my original post because I know your a strong supporter of all things Adventist and I didn't want to reflect poorly on you in that regard. But it's a powerful quote, it needs to be "met", and I figured you were strong enough to take the heat initially. I do believe we are in harmony with the general message this quote brings forth.

It certainly needs some explaining!!! It's an easy one to mirepresent as counsel we should not be quoting Sister White. Something some folks would be very happy to see.

The quote is worthy of consideration of both sides of the issue of Sister White quotes. I'd like to see MORE, when used in context of course. I'd like to see LESS when it is used in the spirit of condemnation. Or as the cheese quote here could be used, to support something she is entirely opposed to. I hear Dr. Kellogg was especially good at using her quotes to support ideas she in fact opposed!

Some will take this kind of quote to show conclusive proof the GC is no longer favored of God, the church is doomed and leadership is in complete apostasy. While many aspects of leadership and church counsel is "troubling" (to say the least) we must use great caution in how we address these issues. It may well push some to such extreme positions they will the church entirely.

Only a true connection with the Lord will allow us to find the balance in truth.

[Gail]

She was misunderstood many times when she was alive, also...

[Tom Wetmore]

...so not much has changed really.

[jasd]

1 Sam 17:17 And Jesse said unto David his son, Take now for thy brethren an ephah of this parched [corn], and these ten loaves, and run to the camp to thy brethren;

1 Sam 17:18 And carry these ten cheeses unto the captain of [their] thousand, and look how thy brethren fare, and take their pledge.

Quote:

Quote:Gordon 1

Cheese is [...]

"it is wholly unfit for food." Ministry of Healing 302.

"Cheese should never be introduced into the stomach" 2 Testimonies 68.

"...enfeebling the intellect..." Counsels on Health 114.

Quote:

”Don't you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible.”

One sometimes wonders if – even then?

[jasd]

The KIV Bible contains some 788,000 words; whereas,

it is claimed that EGW wrote 100,000 manuscripts containing between 25 and 30.000.000 words.

>>If we read and accept all of Ellen White's writings,<<

“Rotsa ruck! Charlie...”

[John317]

Don't you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible.

Originally Posted By: jasd

One sometimes wonders if even then?

Doubtless you express the sentiments of many.

[Overaged]

Club v12, BTW the quote was not provided to say that we stop quoting Sis White. That would be making a superficial judgement about my motivations.

So now you have kindly provided the context what are the principles what we can draw from the quote?

Glad to hear you say that

[John317]

Me, too. :-)

[Overaged]

Cheese is a huge sacred cow. As children we were raised to welcome it as health food. (Madison Avenue) But it brings bad skin, constipation and mucus - catarrh is the term employed by EGW. And of course heart disease, strokes and a spare tire. While meat & dairy bring sickness, cheese has been especially earmarked for exclusion:

"it is wholly unfit for food." Ministry of Healing 302.

"Cheese should never be introduced into the stomach" 2 Testimonies 68.

"...enfeebling the intellect..." Counsels on Health 114.

Sometime ago; I tried to stay at a person's place who ate like this. I almost starved to death - couldn't even go to church cause I was so hungry. I,d like to know how the intellect is "enfeebled" by eating a cheese sandwhich. Is there medical evidence to support it; or is this another case of quoting out of context?

I think Pastor lazarus was trying to get at the fact of how we so often use the EGW quotes as whips, and way out of line with their intended context.

What? Are you going to tell someone they are not saved if they have a cheese sandwhich?

[ClubV12]

I been at the dentist all day, glad to be back and OUT of that chair!

Twas a good discussion, thanks for posting it Lazarus.

[Overaged]

I been at the dentist all day, glad to be back and OUT of that chair!

Twas a good discussion, thanks for posting it Lazarus.

Ya but you probly had to go from that chair to the bank!

[Light Fox]

Does anyone have any information offhand about the source of this chapter? Was it a transcription of someone in the crowd at a speech, a private letter, etc?

What I find highly strange about the quote, really, is its language. It's unlike anything else I've ever seen in Mrs. White's writings as far as its presentation and terminology. Double negatives, southern slang ("don't give a rap," etc.) and such have always seemed strange to me when reading this part of the writings, and the tone seems more like the style of other pioneers than Mrs. White's general tenor.

I've never really given that more than a passing notice, but since the passage has been brought up for discussion, I'd appreciate it if anyone had some more information on that apparent oddity.

[ClubV12]

See my post for a brief "Cliff Notes" background and context, it's the third post on this thread.

This was a talk she gave at the 1901 General Conference session. She was not happy about having to give this talk. But the level of piety among the leadership had fallen to such a low level she felt she had no choice but to address the issue. It was written down "verbatim" and can be found on the EGW Estates CD, or the Commentary CD which includes the EGW writings.

Unlike a typical talk, sermon or written out testimony to someone this was simply a time when she got up and spoke what was on her mind at the time. A "Live and Unedited" talk to a group of people present at the assembly on that day.

While not taking anything away from the Lords messenger as far as inspiration goes one would have to allow for slight mistakes in the transcript. It was not a "recording" so someone had to be writing really fast to keep up and write it all down. Memory and consultation over exactly what was said could not be ruled out. Never the less, the points she makes are certainly valid and should be given serious weight, considering the source.

Her comments on health, money, tithe and a number of other subjects she touched on with this talk are well documented in other EGW writings.

It was NOT the first or last time she cautioned people about using her writings, sayings, testimony in an incorrect manner. This was a recurring problem actually. You can sense a bit of "anger", if we could use that word, coming out in this talk. It was serious business, this was directed to the GENERAL CONFERENCE and other CONFERENCE leaders!!! It certainly applies to ALL of us as well.

[John317]

Ellen White had professional secretaries record her sermons and talks by short-hand.

She frequently used those sermons for published articles in the R&H, etc.

I think the thing that surprises/shocks a lot of readers of this particular address is that it was left just as she talked. The grammar and style of her other writings are "cleaned up" by her editors.