ClubV12 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 "Then, to leave men and women without excuse, God gives plain and pointed testimonies, bringing them back to the word that they have neglected to follow." EGW 2T 454 I like this quote. The "Testimonies" (which include all the works of Sister White) understood properly bring us back to the bible. For me the testimonies were especially important early on in my experience because they are written in a language and way that I could more easily understand. As my experience grows I still find them of great importance. I am convinced we have to use both the bible and the testimonies to grasp the significance of our calling in this day and age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 For the record epaminondas, you raise some valid concerns. By God's grace I'll remain vegan. However there's litttle sign that Loma Linda Medical School has any tie to Ellen White's health message. An SDA from childhood passed through the entire Loma Linda system, including residency at White Memorial, is a busy surgeon and lamented that she received NO EGW health instruction during the entire course of her LL education. Nor was there any preventative lifestyle or nutritional instruction. This was in the 1980s. So, at least for med students, LLUMC had laid Sister White to one side. Skin cancers may derive from excess dietary fat, possibly combined with food additives which are then cooked under sunlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 10, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2011 How funny that little twist at the end where it is pretended that the above "is a quote" from the Spalding and Megan collection. Is that what we are supposed to comment on? Originally Posted By: overaged What on earth are you talking about? Who is pretending what? Indeed. Why not ask a question before you assume that someone is pretending to do this, that or the other.? I wonder why you are so quick to point an accusing finger? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 10, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2011 I like this quote. The "Testimonies" (which include all the works of Sister White) understood properly bring us back to the bible. For me the testimonies were especially important early on in my experience because they are written in a language and way that I could more easily understand. As my experience grows I still find them of great importance. I am convinced we have to use both the bible and the testimonies to grasp the significance of our calling in this day and age. The reason for posting the quote is this: Some months ago I had a conversation with a church member who had an objection to praise dance. When sharing with her what the bible said about praising the Lord with dance her response was to say "you can make the Bible say anything you want it to say". In some respects that is true. This was a long time SDA and I thought she understood the pre-eminence of God's word. Implicit in her comment was that EGW was really the reliable source of truth rather than I Bible. I have found a resurgence in this type or perspective. Many are more apt to quote (or post) a passage from EGW rather than do the sometimes hard but necessary work to understand what the Bible really has to say. Far too many of us hold EGW to be on a par or in practice above the Word of God. Of course no one will admit to that but it's quite evident by how much of her writings are posted as opposed to the Bible. Thus saith Mrs White rather than Thus saith the Lord is the common practice in our churches and on this board. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I'd like to speak to a couple of other assertions which were made regarding EGW. The comment about the planets and moons seemed confusing to me, but I believe that the point the poster was trying to make was that Ellen White must not be a prophet because she failed to correct a misinterpretation of one of her visions??? If my understanding of the comment is correct, then a lifetime would be insufficient to resolve the many misinterpretations of her words and positions... steve. You are correct. It is sheer lunacy to claim that prophets in any age were to be held responsible for how others misinterpret their writings! Obviously. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Ellen White, in a vision, mentioned planets with so many moons. Captain Bates, an amateur astronomer identified the planets with Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus. Later, in 1847, in A Word to the Little Flock, James White specifically mentioned Jupiter and Saturn. Despite having decades to do so, she never corrected either of them. Ellen White stated several times that she had no knowledge at all of astronomy even though she was perfectly capable of "looking up" and "seeing the sun" and even "seeing the moon". Apparently she had the "same ability to look up" when taken to whatever planet. Now the naysaying agenda is to argue that she needed to have enough knowledge of the universe to correct anyone out there having less knowledge than God on the layout of the planets in our universe! At what point were we supposed to take such naysaying seriously?? Clearly the naysayers are "reading from a playbook" rather than doing their own study or taking the subject seriously. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 quote=Overaged]How funny that little twist at the end where it is pretended that the above "is a quote" from the Spalding and Megan collection. Is that what we are supposed to comment on? /quote]What on earth are you talking about? Who is pretending what?/quote] Indeed. Why not ask a question before you assume that someone is pretending do this, that or the other.? I wonder why you are so quick to point an accusing finger? Ahemmmm.. Ah; I quoted you and asked you what you meant by this quote? Not sure how I "accused" you yet, but it sure is tempting now...Maybe you can just answer the question instead of all the other stuff? Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Implicit in her comment was that EGW was really the reliable source of truth rather than I Bible. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 It seems "too much and too hard" for the naysayers to be required to quote "an actual source" before beginning a naysaying. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted September 10, 2011 Administrators Share Posted September 10, 2011 Sad but true... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 For some reason - I am always a bit surprised when Tom agrees with me on something. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted September 10, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2011 That part of her work must've made her feel alone sometimes. (I don't mean without God, but in relation to other humans). Praise to the God she didn't give up. I imagine she will have quite a pleasant surprise when she sees the fruit of her labor Amen, Sid. One of the first things I want to do in heaven is tell her how much I appreciate all the suffering she went through in order to build up the church and how much her life and writings have meant to me personally. I know she'll give all the glory and praise to God and tell me that "heaven is cheap enough." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 "Implicit in her comment was that EGW was really the reliable source of truth rather than I Bible." I get accused of that a LOT, since I think I'm the ONLY guy in our church that has actually READ the Testimonies (and the Conflict series, Steps to Christ 3 times and numerous other works of hers). And yet I haven't met even ONE person, nor myself, that holds the Spirit of Prophecy above the bible, no, not even ONE. I'm excited about her counsel, I read it a lot. I may not quote it, as in, "Sister White" says, but very often my opinions and comments are little more that re-worded quotes and counsel I have been reading. And long time Adventists pick up on that, and call me on it, "Thats something Sister White said, isn't it?" Sometimes in a joyful way, sometimes while their looking down their nose at me. Often followed by, "You need to read your bible more, you make to much of Ellen White." In my opinion the church in general has lost it's balance on the place Sister Whites counsel should receive, which is RIGHT ALONG SIDE THE BIBLE. This is the testimony of a PROPHET, period, don't take it lightly, brush it off at substantial risk. What IF the bible and the Spirit of Prophecy are in confict? Which then do you accept? The bible you say? NO, NEVER!!! It's an impossible question because it CAN'T HAPPEN!!! Fact is, YOU don't understand the bible or Sister White or you would see there is no conflict, you don't see the balance. Song and dance in Abrahams day was FAR different and done in an entirely different spirit than song and dance today. If Sister White has a problem with "dancing" you can take it to the bank, the BIBLE has a problem with dancing and you haven't figure that out yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted September 10, 2011 Administrators Share Posted September 10, 2011 I strive to unsettle you! I was agreeing with Laz. So you are saying you agree with him too? Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 No, I'm NOT agreeing with Lazarus on the very narrow issue of folks putting her above the bible. I've never talked to one person that has said or suggested that. BUT, I DO, personally, get accused of that. As if something I said is "implicit" that I'm doing that. Frankly, I'm getting REAL tired of having to "apologive" for reading Sister White. Frankly, Adventist are dieing and will die for sure if they don't "get it" soon. NOT reading, heeding and taking Sister White seriously is the #1 reason our church is so far from the "blue print" she lays out. The bible AND the Spirit of Prophecy, belittle one or the other, and you've missed the boat and WILL miss the kingdom. This is a deadly serious issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted September 10, 2011 Administrators Share Posted September 10, 2011 Uhhh... I was responding to BobRyan, not you, ClubV12... (Notice the link in the header to his post to which I was responding?) Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 10, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2011 Quote: Ahemmmm.. Ah; I quoted you and asked you what you meant by this quote? Not sure how I "accused" you yet, but it sure is tempting now...Maybe you can just answer the question instead of all the other stuff? Overaged, dude, I wasn't referring to you I was referring to Bob's comment. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 10, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2011 What IF the bible and the Spirit of Prophecy are in confict? Which then do you accept? The bible you say? NO, NEVER!!! It's an impossible question because it CAN'T HAPPEN!!! Fact is, YOU don't understand the bible or Sister White or you would see there is no conflict, you don't see the balance. The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this Holy Word will be in harmony. Our own views and ideas must not control our efforts. Man is fallible, but God's Word is infallible.—Selected Messages, bk. 1, p. 416. Quote: Song and dance in Abrahams day was FAR different and done in an entirely different spirit than song and dance today. If Sister White has a problem with "dancing" you can take it to the bank, the BIBLE has a problem with dancing and you haven't figure that out yet. EGW doesn't have a problem with dancing. It should be reverent and joyful :) Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted September 10, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2011 Certainly a fair bit of dancing going on in this thread... Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockey Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 One of the first things I want to do in heaven is tell her how much I appreciate all the suffering she went through in order to build up the church and how much her life and writings have meant to me personally. I know she'll give all the glory and praise to God and tell me that "heaven is cheap enough." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 10, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2011 Certainly a fair bit of dancing going on in this thread... Yup, I'm kinda dizzy. I'm scared to even agree with someone now. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Bravus Certainly a fair bit of dancing going on in this thread... Yup, I'm kinda dizzy. I'm scared to even agree with someone now. Yeah, but isn't it nice to agree with someone once in a while...... [smile] Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 "The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this Holy Word will be in harmony. Our own views and ideas must not control our efforts. Man is fallible, but God's Word is infallible."—Selected Messages, bk. 1, p. 416. This does not in any way do away with the GREAT NEED Gods people have to read, heed and understand the Lords messenger for our time. ...and by the way, who's agreeing with who around here, I lost track of who's on first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Did Ellen White dance? What did she do? Rhumba, Boogie, or Hip Hop Praise? Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Certainly a fair bit of dancing going on in this thread... Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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