Lay Sister White to one Side

[Overaged]

OK...sorry.

[Overaged]

I'm scared to even agree with someone now.

Well you are not scared to disagree

[olger]

"laying Sister White aside" is exactly what she predicted would happen in the time of the end. Might want to go easy on that stuff.

`oG

[CoAspen]

What happened to the Holy Spirit in this whole discussion? My impression from this thread and the many....many....many...before it, is that too often people rely on EGW to explain the Bible! Then there are gyrations of words to say it ain't so! Maybe that would be true, going to EGW, if we were not sure of our relationship to God so that we don't know if it is the H*S* speaking to us, that has also been said, "How do you know?" .

[Overaged]

What happened to the Holy Spirit in this whole discussion? My impression from this thread and the many....many....many...before it, is that too often people rely on EGW to explain the Bible! Then there are gyrations of words to say it ain't so! Maybe that would be true, going to EGW, if we were not sure of our relationship to God so that we don't know if it is the H*S* speaking to us, that has also been said, "How do you know?" .

Huh?

[John317]

Frankly, I'm getting REAL tired of having to "apologize" for reading Sister White.

No SDA should feel they need to apologize to other SDAs for reading Ellen G. White. But we know that this occurs and will continue to happen more and more as we draw closer to the return of Christ.

Satan's purpose is to discourage SDAs from reading and practicing what she was inspired to write.

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

....NOT reading, heeding and taking Sister White seriously is the #1 reason our church is so far from the "blue print" she lays out.

The bible AND the Spirit of Prophecy, belittle one or the other, and you've missed the boat and WILL miss the kingdom. This is a deadly serious issue.

Very true, Club.

The Holy Spirit will never lead people to dismiss or take lightly either the Bible or the Spirit of prophecy.

[John317]

What happened to the Holy Spirit in this whole discussion? My impression from this thread and the many....many....many...before it, is that too often people rely on EGW to explain the Bible! Then there are gyrations of words to say it ain't so! Maybe that would be true, going to EGW, if we were not sure of our relationship to God so that we don't know if it is the H*S* speaking to us, that has also been said, "How do you know?" .

Do you believe Ellen White was a genuine prophet of God? She was given many hundreds of visions and dreams directly from God. For instance, she saw in vision the Fall of both Lucifer and Adam. So she is able to add details to those events that we don't get from the Bible alone.

Our ideas and thinking must be tested by the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy.

God gave Ellen G. White to the church for a very important reason-- not to hurt us but to help us prepare for Christ's return.

The Holy Spirit who inspired Ellen White's writings will never lead anyone to reject them or to treat them lightly.

Does the Holy Spirit speak directly to each of us? Yes, He does and will continue to do it. He also teaches us by speaking through the Bible and the Spirit of propecy. He will never teach us contrary to what they say.

[ClubV12]

...and now a word from our sponsor...

"The testimonies have not been given to establish new doctrine. The doctrine is established by the Word of God, and the Spirit of Prophecy comes in to bring out the light, revealing new beauties in it, and bringing out here and there details which help in the understanding of the Word of God. . . . {4BIO 68.2}

White, A. L. (1983; 2002). Ellen G. White: The Australian Years, 1891-1900 (Vol. 4); Ellen G. White Biography, Volume 4; The Australian Years (68)

"During the night we were in a council meeting, trying to decide what we were going to do. One of authority stood up and said, "Everything that has been given to ministers, to men in responsible positions, to teachers, to managers, to the different conferences, is to be repeated and repeated, because Satan is now doing a special work to make of no effect the testimonies that come from God. We must work earnestly to bring this instruction before the people." {BCL 3.1}

Battle Creek Letters. 1928; 2002 (3). Leaves-Of-Autumn Books.

[John317]

"laying Sister White aside" is exactly what she predicted would happen in the time of the end.

There is no question that everyone should study the Bible and make it their primary source of knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ.

However, I have noticed that whenever a thread is about Ellen White, we invariably get the following responses:

1) Ellen White shouldn't be quoted so much.

2) We don't need Ellen White all that much, maybe not at all.

3) Better to just study the Bible.

4) Ellen White was OK in her day but she's not always reliable.

5) SDAs are foolish to still believe in Ellen White.

6) Ellen White was a false prophet.

7) Things said about her that shouldn't be repeated.

[olger]

"Those who start up to proclaim a message on their own individual responsibility, who, while claiming to be taught and led of God, still make it their special work to tear down that which God has been for years building up, are not doing the will of God. Be it known that these men are on the side of the great deceiver. Believe them not. They are allying themselves with the enemies of God and the truth. They will deride the order of the ministry as a system of priestcraft. From such turn away, have no fellowship with their message, however much they may quote the Testimonies and seek to entrench themselves behind them. Receive them not, for God has not given them this work to do. The result of such work will be unbelief in the Testimonies, and, as far as possible, they will make of none effect the work that I have for years been doing. {TM 51.1}

[lazarus]

1) Ellen White shouldn't be quoted so much.

2) We don't need Ellen White all that much, maybe not at all.

3) Better to just study the Bible.

4) Ellen White was OK in her day but she's not always reliable.

5) SDAs are foolish to still believe in Ellen White.

6) Ellen White was a false prophet.

7) Things said about her that shouldn't be repeated.

I haven't seen any of that in this thread at all.

[John317]

I'm not suggesting you're saying any of those things, Lazarus.

They were said by others.

I apologize if I left the impression that you were either saying or implying those things.

[lazarus]

"Those who start up to proclaim a message on their own individual responsibility, who, while claiming to be taught and led of God, still make it their special work to tear down that which God has been for years building up, are not doing the will of God. Be it known that these men are on the side of the great deceiver. Believe them not. They are allying themselves with the enemies of God and the truth. They will deride the order of the ministry as a system of priestcraft. From such turn away, have no fellowship with their message, however much they may quote the Testimonies and seek to entrench themselves behind them. Receive them not, for God has not given them this work to do. The result of such work will be unbelief in the Testimonies, and, as far as possible, they will make of none effect the work that I have for years been doing. {TM 51.1}

I haven't seen anyone anywhere here suggesting that the SDA church is Babylon. That's what she's talking about right?

[Tom Wetmore]

... and whenever anyone so much as raises an eyebrow in the context of EGW, this "none effect" quote is trotted out to silence any who dare give EGW anything but complete infallible effect.

Which is worse?

I would challenge everyone here to post at least as many words of Scripture as they do of EGW and spend 10X as much time reading and studying Scripture as EGW.

That might stop the spinning in her grave.

[CoAspen]

Well, where does the H*S* come in this list of thoughts?

>Do you believe Ellen White was a genuine prophet of God? She was given many hundreds of visions and dreams directly from God. For instance, she saw in vision the Fall of both Lucifer and Adam. So she is able to add details to those events that we don't get from the Bible alone.

>Our ideas and thinking must be tested by the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy.

>God gave Ellen G. White to the church for a very important reason-- not to hurt us but to help us prepare for Christ's return.

>The Holy Spirit who inspired Ellen White's writings will never lead anyone to reject them or to treat them lightly.

>Does the Holy Spirit speak directly to each of us? Yes, He does and will continue to do it. He also teaches us by speaking through the Bible and the Spirit of propecy. He will never teach us contrary to what they say.

IT IS NOT about ones belief in EGW as a prophet. The question is and still remains, how is she to be used? Where does a relationship with Christ/God lead us? To the Bible, to the guiding of the H*S*, to EGW? What is the order they are used in?

Quote:

He also teaches us by speaking through the Bible and the Spirit of propecy. He will never teach us contrary to what they(Bible and EGW, my addition but implied) say.

That is a very telling statement and goes to my point, perfectly. Your statement put her as an equal to the Bible. Everything she wrote is from God. I believe that is very contrary to her own repeated words.

[Overaged]

... and whenever anyone so much as raises an eyebrow in the context of EGW, this "none effect" quote is trotted out to silence any who dare give EGW anything but complete infallible effect.

Which is worse?

I would challenge everyone here to post at least as many words of Scripture as they do of EGW and spend 10X as much time reading and studying Scripture as EGW.

Thats what I do; Will you give me my hero buscuit now; or do I have to jump another hoop first

[ClubV12]

My take on the above quote is that she is addressing a form of fanaticism.

1. 'Those who start up to proclaim a message on their own individual responsibility.'

I've met a couple of people like this in my local church.

2. 'who, while claiming to be taught and led of God,'

Yup, they insist they have prayed for guidance and are convinced they are being led by the Holy Spirit. At times declaring they do not need Sister White at all because they have direction from the Holy Spirit. OR, Sister White didn't have "all the light" and this is "new light". Nor do they need the counsel of the brethren for this "new light". Not only in my local church, but right here on the forum we have MANY examples of people making these kinds of claims.

3. 'still make it their special work to tear down that which God has been for years building up,'

At some point you cross a line from "honest questioning of the gift of prophecy" into active, though it may be subtle, "fighting against" the spirit of prophecy. "Fighting against" the spirit of prophecy IS something Sister White specifically address' as a major problem. How major? It can lead to being disfellowshipped.

[CoAspen]

I find it very salacious by some to constantly suggest that raising questions mplies doubt about EGW's prophetic place in SDA history. A very weak argument those asking and perhaps a bit closed mindedness?

No one is being asked to apologize for their belief!!

[lazarus]

... and whenever anyone so much as raises an eyebrow in the context of EGW, this "none effect" quote is trotted out to silence any who dare give EGW anything but complete infallible effect.

Yes. I think you nailed it.

Inspired writings will stand the test of the closest scrutiny and the most vigorous discussion. Nothing is gained by not so subtle insinuations.

[CoAspen]

My take on the above quote is that she is addressing a form of fanaticism.

1. 'Those who start up to proclaim a message on their own individual responsibility.'

I've met a couple of people like this in my local church.

2. 'who, while claiming to be taught and led of God,'

Yup, they insist they have prayed for guidance and are convinced they are being led by the Holy Spirit. At times declaring they do not need Sister White at all because they have direction from the Holy Spirit. OR, Sister White didn't have "all the light" and this is "new light". Nor do they need the counsel of the brethren for this "new light". Not only in my local church, but right here on the forum we have MANY examples of people making these kinds of claims.

3. 'still make it their special work to tear down that which God has been for years building up,'

At some point you cross a line from "honest questioning of the gift of prophecy" into active, though it may be subtle, "fighting against" the spirit of prophecy. "Fighting against" the spirit of prophecy IS something Sister White specifically address' as a major problem. How major? It can lead to being disfellowshipped.

EGW told us very specifically to keep searching the Bible for new 'light' and for us not to believe that we had it all. I do not believe she would find this constant topic about her, instead of the Bible, very enlightening and would speak against it most vehemently.

[John317]

What is the purpose of the testimonies?

"The word of God is sufficient to enlighten the most beclouded mind and may be understood by those who have any desire to understand it. But notwithstanding all this, some who profess to make the word of God their study are found living in direct opposition to its plainest teachings. Then, to leave men and women without excuse, God gives plain and pointed testimonies, bringing them back to the word that they have neglected to follow. Yet those who serve their own lusts turn from all this light. They will not cease their course of sin, but continue to take pleasure in unrighteousness in the face of the threatenings and vengeance of God against those who do such things. {2T 454.4}"

Exactly, the Testimonies of the Spirit of God were given to us to point us to the Bible.

Some people believe that this means that as long as we are studying the Bible, we can dispense with the Testimonies. That would be a mistake.

We need all the help from God that we can get.

[John317]

1) Ellen White shouldn't be quoted so much.

2) We don't need Ellen White all that much, maybe not at all.

3) Better to just study the Bible.

4) Ellen White was OK in her day but she's not always reliable.

5) SDAs are foolish to still believe in Ellen White.

6) Ellen White was a false prophet.

7) Things said about her that shouldn't be repeated.

Originally Posted By: Lazarus

I haven't seen any of that in this thread at all.

See, for instance, posts # 474662, 474665, 474781, 474821.

My point is that for some reason whenever Ellen White is brought up on the Internet, it is necessary to read the same kinds of objections to Ellen White, even when she or her writings are discussed among SDAs. I haven't found this to be the case in my local church, or in the churches I've attended, but I do see it quite a lot on ClubAdventistForum. I don't, however, see it so much on the Adventist forums on FB.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

NOT reading, heeding and taking Sister White seriously is the #1 reason our church is so far from the "blue print" she lays out.

Not sure what 'blue print' you are talking about or referring to, but you are totally wrong on the #1 reason. She herself would disagree also because it is opposed to her own words.

The church or any individual's sole reason for being so far from Gods 'blue print' is not listening to the beckoning of the person standing at the door and knocking. Christ said HE would send the H*S* as a guide when HE left His disciples. EGW also said she would not have been needed had people been studying their Bibles and listening to the voice of God.

Not reading and heeding the Bible is 'reason'.

[ClubV12]

...so blind they don't even see or understand how they are making of no effect the spirit of prophecy. Fulfilling Sister Whites prophecy while doing so.

[John317]

Quote:

NOT reading, heeding and taking Sister White seriously is the #1 reason our church is so far from the "blue print" she lays out.

Not sure what 'blue print' you are talking about or referring to, but you are totally wrong on the #1 reason. She herself would disagree also because it is opposed to her own words.

Not heeding the Straight Testimony-- which includes the Spirit of prophecy-- is the reason Jesus has not come.

The "blue print" are God's instructions to us both as a church and as indivduals. The church to a large degree is not doing what she was shown it should do. Neither are most of its members.