Perry: "I Don't Think You Have a Heart"

[Dr. Shane]

I don't know if McCain would have invaded Iran. Perhaps he would have. I am sure he wouldn't have done anything significant with health care but what Obama has done has made it worse, not better.

I don't see Obama trying to please the TEA Party. He seems to be fighting with them more than showing diplomatic leadership. He should have invested in the infrastructure with the last stimulus. Trying to sell the idea now is sounding like the boy that cried wolf.

[Kyran]

He needs to stop trying to get the Tea people to like him.

You were going well up until that sentance. There are plenty of videos on Youtube showing Obama making degrading comments towards Tea party goers.

Though I am interesting in what the rightwing flawed narrative is. Are you able to nutshell it for me?

[lazarus]

Though I am interesting in what the rightwing flawed narrative is. Are you able to nutshell it for me?

In a nutshell. The narrative is that the government is bad and the private sector is good. Part of what has made this country great is government, the military, the police, firefighters, sanitation workers, the road network, the rail network, space exploration, social security, the GI Bill. All of this is government.

Just reading Undaunted Courage about the Lewis and Clark expedition. Again that was government.

[lazarus]

There are plenty of videos on Youtube showing Obama making degrading comments towards Tea party goers.

I'm not saying he's giving speeches about how wonderful they are I'm saying he's adjusting his agenda so that they'll be willing to work with him. He's trying to please them. He should stop.

[lazarus]

This is what i'm talking about.

[Tom Wetmore]

All you have to do is live in a country without the government paid for infrastructure we have and you quickly understand that our government is not so bad after all. Or live in a country where the government is really as corrupt as the anti-government tea party crowd would have you believe, and you will know they are wrong.

Most of the governmental corruption is not on the government side of the equation. How does government become corrupt? It comes from the private sector, gaming the system, bribing public officials, manipulating and scheming to avoid complying with the laws of the land.

[bonnie]

This is what i'm talking about.

[lazarus]

This woman is a moron

If we can make an assessment firstly on whose comments are understandable and logical, Elizabeth Warren is not the one who is a moron.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

This woman is a moron

If we can make an assessment firstly on whose comments are understandable and logical, Elizabeth Warren is not the one who is a moron.

Explain to me who the "we" are that have paid and the "you" that have not paid for their police/fire protection etc.

There is a large segment of society that does not pay federal income tax or no property tax etc.Is that the "you" she is referring to? In addition many of us pay to build their homes and allow them a greatly reduced rent or in cases almost none at all.

Explain to me where I am wrong

[bonnie]

All you have to do is live in a country without the government paid for infrastructure we have and you quickly understand that our government is not so bad after all.

[Dr. Shane]

I'm saying he's adjusting his agenda so that they'll be willing to work with him. He's trying to please them. He should stop.

I disagree. I think he is digging his heels in and fighting with them like my two children fight with each other. He should stop. He is the President. He needs to rise about that kind of partisan bickering and act diplomatic. He needs to get things done. Real people are unemployed. Real people are losing their homes, their retirements, their cars, their credit-rating and the financial stress is even causing some families to break up. Obama needs to put the partisan rhetoric away, act like a diplomat and get something done for the American people.

[Dr. Shane]

Elizabeth Warren is not the one who is a moron.

Agreed. But as long as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity says she is a moron, a lot of folks will nod their head and repeat it.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

Elizabeth Warren is not the one who is a moron.

Agreed. But as long as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity says she is a moron, a lot of folks will nod their head and repeat it.

Perhaps they did say it.I don't know.I have not listened recently more than five minutes at a time and did not hear of Elizabeth Warren thru any radio or TV talk show.

Your crystal ball is not worth a fig.You really have to get a new one.

Perhaps as you apparently agree with Elizabeth Warren so much you can explain to me

Who is in the group of "we" that pays for the infrastructure,police,firemen,schools and all else for the group that makes up the "you"

Did the group "you" suddenly morph into existence and start businesses made possible by the group "we"

Or has the group "you" been paying right along since their work careers began? Have they owned homes and paid property tax,purchased cars and paid sales tax,federal income/state income tax.

[Dr. Shane]

Who is in the group of "we" that pays for the infrastructure,police,firemen,schools and all else for the group that makes up the "you"

That's easy. We is the collective and you is the individual.

[Kyran]

The narrative is that the government is bad and the private sector is good.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Who is in the group of "we" that pays for the infrastructure,police,firemen,schools and all else for the group that makes up the "you"

That's easy. We is the collective and you is the individual.

So when she says something like You built a factory out there? Good for you," she says. "But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for;

"The indivdual in group "You" has not paid for any infrastructure,police,fire,taxes etc. They have taken advantage of what the group "we" have paid for without paying themselves?

When "you" group hires individuals that have gone thru the public school system they have not been part of the system that pays for their diploma?

[bonnie]

Nice timing bonnie.

I am still waiting for those that think Elizabeth Warren is so "right on" to explain their logic or hers.

Warren has done the usual and divided the "we" and the "you"

I have had to call 911 for my husband twice.My son had to call 911 for him once.

"We" have paid some rather hefty taxes beginning in 1962. I would like to know where that money has gone.Obviously not to pay for infrastructure and services that we as part of "you" have used. In addition to paying for those services as part of the "we" then as a "you"small business owner we paid a additional 1250.00 for the services of 911 and the ambulance. "You" continues to pay for those services at a much higher rate than those of the group "we"

As employee's "we" my brother and his wife paid a large amount in taxes as they always made a good income between them.Where did that money go? Certainly not to pay for services received as now part of "you".When they became part of "you" they were using what others had provided?

As "you" they paid higher property tax,higher income tax,paid for the diploma's of their employee's many times over + paying for their children in private school+helping other students with their college expenses voluntarirly.

And provided a pretty decent income for 50 employee's.

My son has one in college and two in academy.I guess he would go in the "you" catagory as he had his own business since 21 years old.As "you" he purchased a home shortly after at a very young age and paid property tax.Made a above average income for the time and his years.Paid a hefty amount in taxes.Without children in public school he paid for many diploma's of any that worked for him while educating his in private school.He has continued to pay more than the "we" for services received.His home is larger so higher property tax.His income is above average so all other taxes are larger.His children do not receive any of the money paid in by the collective "we" for their education."You" is still paying for the diploma of others.

I would like someone to explain to me where the money of the group "you" has gone.Obviously not to pay for services or infrastructure

[lazarus]

I honestly don't understand why you don't understand her logic. You may not agree with her conclusions but I don't understand the we/you thing you have going on.

[lazarus]

but I can't get my head around why you'd want to punish job creators. Disclaimer: I'm refering strickly to small and medium sized businesses.

I don't even accept the notion that business "create" jobs. It's as if employers are doing the country a favor. They are part of a system.

[bonnie]

I honestly don't understand why you don't understand her logic. You may not agree with her conclusions but I don't understand the we/you thing you have going on.

It wasn't my we/you thing. It is the thing of Elizabeth Warren.

"You built a factory out there? Good for you," she continues. "But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for

The "you" group has used what the "we" group provided for their use.Not sure where the money of the "you" group was going

Generally the "you" group has been a active part of the "we" group that has provided the infrastructure and all services.They continue to be a higher paying group than the "we" group.They take the risk,they provide a product/service that there is a market for or they create a demand for their product. The better they do the more they pay compared to the "we" group

you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for.

Again isolating the "you" group and claiming the "we" group has

paid for what the "you" group is using.The "you" group generally pays higher personal property,higher sales tax,higher state tax.Where is that money going if not to pay for the services that the "we" group claims as theirs?

You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did."

The "we" group doing the work so that the "you" group can benefit

She adds: "Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

Those in the "you" group pay to educate that next child from the time they begin paying taxes,whether or not they have children,they generally pay out of pocket to educate their own while continuing to pay for that next kid just as the "we" group does.

There is another group.The "they" group which does not pay or pays very little

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: Kyran

but I can't get my head around why you'd want to punish job creators. Disclaimer: I'm refering strickly to small and medium sized businesses.

I don't even accept the notion that business "create" jobs. It's as if employers are doing the country a favor. They are part of a system.

Not sure where you got the idea employer's begin businessess to do the country a favor.

They begin businessess because they want more or better than they have or don't like working for someone else.They are willing to take the risk.The long hours.

In doing that they provide employment for others and all benefit.

Who is it that creates jobs? The government? The employee's. Without the employer they do not have a job to go to

[bonnie]

If Obama has his way those earning 200,000 a year and up will become part of the "you" group.

Given that the government spends 1.56 for every 1.00 of new revenue it receives how long before 100,000 a year becomes the "you" group.

There is never enough when you get to spend someone else's money.When there is little accountibility or restrictions the government will spend and spend.

[Dr. Shane]

I honestly don't understand why you don't understand her logic.

They refuse to. Simple as that. A lot of folks let Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck do their thinking for them.

[Dr. Shane]

I don't even accept the notion that business "create" jobs. It's as if employers are doing the country a favor. They are part of a system.

Of course they are part of a system. They are normally credited with creating jobs because they are taking a risk. One could make an argument that consumers create jobs. However since the business owner is taking the largest risk, he or she is typically seen as the person or entity actually creating the job. But I do agree, it is all part of a system.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

I honestly don't understand why you don't understand her logic.

They refuse to. Simple as that. A lot of folks let Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck do their thinking for them.

Then PLEASE SHANE explain her logic. Explain how the "we" have created and paid for the infrastructure for unpaid use by the "you".

Have those in the "you" group been a part of the "we" group as far as providing the services,roads,education etc we all use.

Does the "you" group pay more for those services than you do as part of the "we" group?