Perry: "I Don't Think You Have a Heart"

[Kyran]

One could make an argument that consumers create jobs.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

They refuse to. Simple as that. A lot of folks let Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck do their thinking for them.

Are you referring to people in general, or someone in this thread?

I am not referring to anyone specifically. There are a lot that like to jump on ideological bandwagons. The hate-Bush crowd did that a lot when Bush was President. I tend to avoid those trends.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Are you referring to people in general, or someone in this thread?

It generally is reserved for a couple of posters that he tells,"Don't be a top and let them spin you".

The charge is continual,don't let Rush,Sean,Beck do your thinking for you.

Some are so impressed with their own intelligence that it is inconceivable that others can disagree with them without being influenced by the above three

Shane,would you please be so kind to explain where Elizabeth Warren is correct and I am wrong?

Just explain this logic if you can..

You built a factory out there? Good for you," she says. "But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for;

Is it true the "you" group builds factories/businesses using services and infrastructure the "we" has provided without paying their own way for these services?

Are they using the education of employee's the "we" group has paid for without paying their own way for these services?

Has the "you" group paid their portion of fire and ploice protection? Or are they using services provided for them by the "we" group.With a successful business comes increased use of all the above.Are the "we" group funding this until Obama can raise taxes and make it fair?

[Dr. Shane]

Shane,would you please be so kind to explain where Elizabeth Warren is correct and I am wrong?

She is pretty straightforward. I don't think it takes much explaining. And she is right. She is dead on right. There is a reason the US has so many more millionaires than other countries. The only difference between where I am and 15 miles south is the government.

I don't think you are wrong either. You just don't understand what she is saying. Perhaps you have filled your head with so much right-wing propaganda that her very basic logic isn't breaking through. I don't know but clearly you are not understanding what she is saying.

[bonnie]

Quote:

She is pretty straightforward. I don't think it takes much explaining. And she is right. She is dead on right. There is a reason the US has so many more millionaires than other countries. The only difference between where I am and 15 miles south is the government.

How has someone earing more money taken from you or anyone else.

You are still refusing to answer the question.

Can you just answer the question. Because I know my brother's circumstances personally I will again use him as an example.

He purchased a home in foreclousure.

Dirt cheap in the mountians as part of the "we" group.Taxes were very reasonable [4,000.00?for location and actual worth of home.He paid his property tax as part of "we" to pay for services.

As he went from "we" group" to "you" group he began remodeling the home. He did all the work himself except for electrical and plumbing.The value increased 20 fold on completion. His taxes have gone from 4 figures to five figures in property tax as part of the "you" group. As part of "we" he was helping to provide services and infrastructure,where is his money going as part of "you" group? As "we" and now "you" has he been part of providing services and infrastructure? Or is he getting a free ride on what others have provided?

Quote:

I don't think you are wrong either. You just don't understand what she is saying. Perhaps you have filled your head with so much right-wing propaganda that her very basic logic isn't breaking through. I don't know but clearly you are not understanding what she is saying.

Then why don't you help me out and fill my head with Shane's propaganda.

My brother started his business out of his home.Which added to his property tax.

He purchased a property that had gone from residential to commercial.The location and three homes on the property was pretty pricey with pricey property tax.In addition to personal property tax by choice and his business he was paying above those making 6 figure income.

He increased revenue for his community by purchasing equipment and supplies.Providing a good income for fifty employee's,paying into the government revenue.

Some where in here Elizabeth Warren and you believe people like my brother are getting a free ride,using resources "we" have paid for.

It should be fairly simple for someone of your stature to be able to show me where.

Please leave your spin and non-answers out of this

[bonnie]

Quote:

They refuse to. Simple as that. A lot of folks let Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck do their thinking for them.

Quote:

Are you refering to people in general, or someone in this thread?

I think this is where Shane answers your question honestly

in his last post to me...

Perhaps you have filled your head with so much right-wing propaganda that her very basic logic isn't breaking through

[Dr. Shane]

How has someone earning more money taken from you or anyone else?

It really isn't hard to understand. I am dumbfounded that people can't grasp this. Rush sounded like a fool today harping on this over and over and over again.

The rich are not "taking" from anyone specifically but rather from society as a whole. They are using the collective investment. The rich use the infrastructure built by all of us. They hire people that collectively we all educated. No one becomes rich on their own. I mean really. That is like a duhhhh thing to say. Rush is sounding like a total buffoon attacking this lady.

[bonnie]

It really isn't hard to understand. I am dumbfounded that people can't grasp this. Rush sounded like a fool today harping on this over and over and over again.

[Dr. Shane]

Elizabeth Warren says there are two groups.

There are two groups. One group includes everyone that pays any sort of tax - which is everyone including the illegals. The second group are the business owners and managers that make investment decisions. The second group is also part of the first group. So they are not two distinct groups.

Think of it like this. I belonged to a church where I paid tithe. When I decided to get married I asked permission to use the church and the fellowship hall. Permission was granted and I was not charged anything because I was a member. However my wife and I were still thankful to the church. We were allowed to use the church even though as a member we were part owner of it.

Again, Rush really sounds like a buffoon when he talks about this. It is really quite simple. I can't even believe her remarks are controversial.

[bonnie]

My son,slto not self employed or owning his own business he is part of the "you" group as to income.He oversees many,many nursing homes and is responsible for the bottom line.

He pays far more in personal property tax than you do,is in a far higher income tax bracket.Pays for educating children in public schools while educating his own in private schools/colleges.You do not contribute anything to that.Because of his higher income he gives far more to charity than you do.Recently being audited for two years because his charitable donations were so high.

Has he paid his way for the services and infrastructures he uses? Or is he abusing the "we" that has paid for all of this.

My brother pays more in every respect than people in the "we" group like yourself.

He was responsible for the income of fifty men and all that entailed.Did he take from the "we" group without paying a large amount for the services he used?

Please keep in mind what this woman was spewing.Those that build factories and start businesses do so with the services that "we" provided.

They will keep spending without restraint and the "we" group will get smaller and they will take more and more from the "you" group.

I would just like you to tell me how "we" has paid for all the services used by "you".I would like to know where the money has gone that has been paid by "you"

[bonnie]

Quote:

There are two groups. One group includes everyone that pays any sort of tax - which is everyone including the illegals. The second group are the business owners and managers that make investment decisions. The second group is also part of the first group. So they are not two distinct groups.

Elizabeth Warren is speaking of two groups.The ones that pay and provide and the ones that take.AGAIN,"you" build factories,good for you,You have built those factories with the services "we" have provided.

Technically everyone pays some sort of tax.Not everyone provides additional revenue into the economy.Those supported by welfare pay any tax with money taken from others. If I earn a 1,000.00 a week and 300.00 is taken from me and given to someone else there is still only a 1,000.00 dollars into the economy.

Quote:

Think of it like this. I belonged to a church where I paid tithe. When I decided to get married I asked permission to use the church and the fellowship hall. Permission was granted and I was not charged anything because I was a member. However my wife and I were still thankful to the church. We were allowed to use the church even though as a member we were part owner of it.

Doesn't apply.Thoese like my brother have not been given permission to use anything free of charge.He has already paid

mega dollars and continues to do so.

Quote:

Again, Rush really sounds like a buffoon when he talks about this. It is really quite simple. I can't even believe her remarks are controversial.

I wouldn't worry to much about Rush sounding like a buffoon.Someone so obsessed with a radio personality has his own problems to worry about

[Dr. Shane]

Elizabeth Warren is speaking of two groups.The ones that pay and provide and the ones that take.AGAIN,"you" build factories,good for you,You have built those factories with the services "we" have provided.

Did she tell you that? It sounds to me like you are reading way too much into her comments. Kind of like Rush Limbaugh is. Don't try to twist her words so much. She makes sense. A lot of sense. It is what is known as common sense. My bet is that she gets re-elected.

[Guest]

Elizabeth Warren is not the one who is a moron.

Oh but she is...and then some.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Elizabeth Warren is speaking of two groups.The ones that pay and provide and the ones that take.AGAIN,"you" build factories,good for you,You have built those factories with the services "we" have provided.

Did she tell you that? It sounds to me like you are reading way too much into her comments. Kind of like Rush Limbaugh is. Don't try to twist her words so much. She makes sense. A lot of sense. It is what is known as common sense. My bet is that she gets re-elected.

I didn't twist her words.She is the one that used "we" as in paying and "you" as in using what "we" has paid for.

Of course you still do not really answer or explain.

What has "we" paid for that "you" is taking advantage of

Just your tired obsessive comments about Rush Limbaugh

She may very well get elected. To many people on hand outs and they intend to keep the hand outs coming instead of doing a little more of what they condemn "you" for.That is not surprising.

[bonnie]

I know many of the "we" group resent and are jealous of what others have made. They don't have any intention of becoming part of "you" and paying and contributing on the level "you' does.Their solution is to take more from those that work more.

The mere mention of cutting back on government spending is appalling to them.

The of course the many parasites that live completely off the government will always want more and more,so let's go grab the "you".

[Dr. Shane]

I know many of the "we" group resent and are jealous of what others have made.

I don't know that. Many in the "we" group want to become part of the "you" group. Americans are ambitious people. We build roads and educate people for that very use.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

I know many of the "we" group resent and are jealous of what others have made.

I don't know that. Many in the "we" group want to become part of the "you" group. Americans are ambitious people. We build roads and educate people for that very use.

Yes ,Americans are ambitious people.Those that lack that ambition are the first to cry "not fair".

The key is that the "we" and the "you" build roads and educate people.

The "we" do mot build roads and educate people for the "you".

While the "you" are building roads and educating people they are already paying more than those of the "we" that are crying "unfair"

[Dr. Shane]

Rush Limbaugh is making a big deal out of nothing. He does that sometimes. I am slow to jump on his band wagons.

[bonnie]

Rush Limbaugh is making a big deal out of nothing. He does that sometimes. I am slow to jump on his band wagons.

This hasn't anything to do with Rush Limbaughs bandwagon.This has to do with those that don't want the risk,work and stress of building factories or a business deciding they have the moral right to take from those that do

Have you ever noticed a small child,especially a needy child if they do or say something they think is clever or funny. How they will do or say the same over and over to keep getting attention.

[bonnie]

Rush Limbaugh is making a big deal out of nothing. He does that sometimes. I am slow to jump on his band wagons.

You are also very slow to answer or give reasons for your statements and condemnation of others.

As long as you feel you can make this about talk radio you really don't have to.

There are very few moral rights in this country. This does not have anything to do with what I should or choose to do from a christian prespective. We have a right to work as hard as we can,take risks,be as immoral or moral as we choose as long as we are not harming others.We have a right to be safe in our homes which is getting tougher to enforce,we have a right to all services and infrastructure we help pay for. The right and choosing to work as hard as we can means we pay a higher portion of that.We also pay for the use by those that do not contribute to society. The farce of "all pay taxes"is just that. Technically yes,but if I can pay the taxes I pay with someone else's money I really don't care what the tax or how much.

We do not have a moral right to demand fellow taxpayers to pay our way.I do not have the right to demand my neighbor,working two jobs and his wife working one, to pay me to sit home because I can't find just the right job.If you have to take a lower paying job or your income has been reduced because of the economy,tough cookies,take a second part time job.If you still can't provide enough food for your family then and only then ask others to feed them for you..

You have right to bring children into the world.You do not have the right to demand I pay for them.

There is nothing unforseen or accidental about the conception of a child.A certain act and only one act is responsible. You do not bring a child into the world and then say "OOPS" guess I wasn't ready,you pay for it now.Get off your backside.Use your hands to work instead of grabbing from others.

We do have a moral right to expect the government taking our money to spend responsibly.Cutting unnecessary foolish spending

first and foremost before they look for the next income level they can attack.We have a moral right to live in this country as we choose as long as we are not harming others.We do not have a moral right to live as we choose and demand others pay for it

[bonnie]

The bible is pretty specific on what christians should be willing to do.Not by force of government or by force of God for that matter, but WIILING to do. They will answer to God,not Elizabeth Warren or Shane.

The same is true for those that demand the labor of others.

The sluggard is told to consider the ways of the ant.,"He that is slothful is a brother to the great destroyer" "Those that do not work shall not eat" Very strong condemnation of sevant number three that says"Gee God,I can't".

Nothing to indicate that anyone has the moral right to demand they be taken care of.

[Dr. Shane]

This hasn't anything to do with Rush Limbaughs bandwagon.

It most certainly does. Rush Limbaugh has been harping on this all week and trying to get everyone to jump on his bandwagon and sing his praises. Well, I am an independent thinker and Elizabeth Warren is right. She makes so much sense that Limbaugh does himself a lot of damage bashing her.

[Dr. Shane]

The bible is pretty specific on what christians should be willing to do.

Indeed and paying taxes is one of them. Not only is paying taxes our Christian obligation it is our patriotic duty. No one gets rich on their own. We all pay taxes, even illegal immigrants. Everyone pays taxes.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

This hasn't anything to do with Rush Limbaughs bandwagon.

It most certainly does. Rush Limbaugh has been harping on this all week and trying to get everyone to jump on his bandwagon and sing his praises. Well, I am an independent thinker and Elizabeth Warren is right. She makes so much sense that Limbaugh does himself a lot of damage bashing her.

No Shane you are not a independent thinker.

If you were you could address the issue,not your hatred for someone else.You only wish he would do himself damage as you can't damage him.

It should be pretty simple for a so-called independent thinker to show where she is right.You seem to be unable to do so,feeling you can shift the attention of your non-answer to

trying to blame Rush for those that do not fall in your bandwagon

"Talk radio update"As for Rush and his bandwagon ,today was the first time I have heard him all week for more than a couple of minutes at a time.That totaled the time it took for me to drive 15 miles.In that time he was speaking of ABC and their seeming negative response to Obama.Elizabeth Warren was not mentioned.Nor did I hear it on Rush the first time.It was on my local news.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

The bible is pretty specific on what christians should be willing to do.

Indeed and paying taxes is one of them. Not only is paying taxes our Christian obligation it is our patriotic duty. No one gets rich on their own. We all pay taxes, even illegal immigrants. Everyone pays taxes.

Now you are of course responding to something never said.Why is that?

I have never said there are those that should not pay taxes.We already have plenty of those.

Maybe as a independent thinker you should not parrot Elizabeth Warren "no one gets rich on their own"

This is not about a refusal to pay taxes. This began with the claim that there is a "we group" that has provided the services and infrastructure for a "you group".

That is so much hogwash.By the very nature of people that have the motivation,desire,work ethic,those that build factories/businessess most times put more into the economy as part of the "we group" than those that are content to simply work for someone else.There is no doubt they conitnue to pay more into at a much higher rate.They educate more children,pay for more infrastructure,pay more into providing for those that cannot or those that refuse to work.Most also contribute more heavily to charity than those that work for others.

My question to you is who is the "you" being referred to that is getting a free ride.Who is the "we" that is providng that free ride