Dr. Shane Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Is he a male chauvinist? You would ask that why? Because his mexican wife speaks english? Not so much because she can speak English but because he cannot (or does not) speak Spanish. Living in Arizona makes learning Spanish quite easy - I learned it while living in Minnesota. When we get married we become part of a new family. We suddenly have another set of parents, new siblings, cousins, etc. If we marry into a Latino family, the importance of those family bonds is very strong. A white guy that doesn't speak Spanish is usually viewed as an outsider, often as an intruder. If he doesn't teach his children (the grandchildren) Spanish, that is an offense he is guilty of. He is denying the extended family a relationship with the children. However a white guy that learns Spanish (like me) is lovingly embraced by nearly the whole community. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I am not really interested in a general answer about some faceless callers on talk radio. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Not so much because she can speak English but because he cannot (or does not) speak Spanish. Living in Arizona makes learning Spanish quite easy - I learned it while living in Minnesota. Good for you,Shane did it so everyone needs to do so or are less than he is. When we get married we become part of a new family. We suddenly have another set of parents, new siblings, cousins, etc. If we marry into a Latino family, the importance of those family bonds is very strong.When we marry into any family,family bonds are important. Latinos did not invent that concept. Every marriage involves another set of parents,siblings and cousins. A white guy that doesn't speak Spanish is usually viewed as an outsider, often as an intruder.In a petty world that is obsessed with those that talk funny it may be true If he doesn't teach his children (the grandchildren) Spanish, that is an offense he is guilty of. He is denying the extended family a relationship with the children. Again Shane's gospel is only gospel to him. The extended family of both my nephew and my son do very well with their grandchildren. Both have a close relationship with their other grandparents. When the Russian grandparents of my grandchildren visit they have a great time and really enjoy one another. They teach words back and forth and are very comfortable with one another.They speak daily on Skype and have a good time laughing over the mistakes of each other.All happens without my son or nephew speaking their language My son does not speak Russian,it gets a little funny at times communicating but they are able to accept each is different. However a white guy that learns Spanish (like me) is lovingly embraced by nearly the whole community. How wonderful for you. Your mistake is that you have such an inflated opinion of your views that you think everyone must do as Shane does.Learning their language was not a requirement of either wife.Possibly should have checked with you first. Neither my nephew or son seems to have a problem "being lovingly embraced" Maybe they are lucky and do not deal with those that make such a big deal out of others that talk funny Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie You have made specific accusations, you have made some not to subtle accusations concerning me. I try to speak in general and not accuse anyone specifically of anything. I do expose radical ideology and some that choose to embrace that ideology may think I am talking about them but I think people are free to change their minds and thus separate themselves from ideology. Really? Hate mongering,spewing venom,racist is general? Only for those that love to spin.If you are exposing radical ideas why can't you articulate radical ideas of a group. Not your general "They Think" but where they express what they think This wasn't to general either. A little shy of direct accusation but your implication is clear. Your ideology is considered radical by many. What makes you so righteously correct? If you do not like living some place where your tax dollars are used to help the poor, you may consider moving to Mexico. They don't have welfare there so none of your tax dollars will support the poor. You can drive through the barrios and get a warm fuzzy feeling inside as you see all the starving and sick children. Going home you can thank God that none of your tax dollars are used to feed any of them. If you do not like your tax dollars helping the poor, perhaps America just isn't a good place for you to live. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Not so much because she can speak English but because he cannot (or does not) speak Spanish. Living in Arizona makes learning Spanish quite easy - I learned it while living in Minnesota. When we get married we become part of a new family. We suddenly have another set of parents, new siblings, cousins, etc. If we marry into a Latino family, the importance of those family bonds is very strong. A white guy that doesn't speak Spanish is usually viewed as an outsider, often as an intruder. If he doesn't teach his children (the grandchildren) Spanish, that is an offense he is guilty of. He is denying the extended family a relationship with the children. However a white guy that learns Spanish (like me) is lovingly embraced by nearly the whole community. Just have to laugh when I read "Like Me" My son and nephew are less than Shane? How funny. He is above all and can describe the marriage of those he doesn't know.All because they have married women that were born in another country and became Americans by choice. That choice included assimilating into the american way of life to provide or help provide for their families. What bugs you about that? Is it they recognized early on that they did not feel it their right to demand welfare because of their refusal to learn? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Learning their language was not a requirement of either wife. Possibly should have checked with you first.Neither my nephew or son seems to have a problem "being lovingly embraced" Maybe they are lucky and do not deal with those that make such a big deal out of others that talk funny It is quite sad when grandparents cannot speak to their grandchildren. Tragic really. I am all for inter-cultural marriage but it is a two-way street. When one of the spouses refuses to learn the language and customs of the other spouse, the marriage fails to reach its full potential. Often times it leads straight to divorce, broken homes, broken hearts and broken dreams. Pride and laziness are typically the culprits. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 If you do not like living some place where your tax dollars are used to help the poor, you may consider moving to Mexico. They don't have welfare there so none of your tax dollars will support the poor. You can drive through the barrios and get a warm fuzzy feeling inside as you see all the starving and sick children. Going home you can thank God that none of your tax dollars are used to feed any of them. If you do not like your tax dollars helping the poor, perhaps America just isn't a good place for you to live. The word "you" is being used in a general sense. In the past when I have suggested others not use the word "you" I have been ridiculed for such a suggestion. Let me reword the paragraph so there is no misunderstanding. If a person does not like living some place where their tax dollars are used to help the poor, they may consider moving to Mexico. They don't have welfare there so none of their tax dollars will support the poor. They can drive through the barrios and get a warm fuzzy feeling inside as they see all the starving and sick children. Going home they can thank God that none of their tax dollars are used to feed any of them. If such a person does not like their tax dollars helping the poor, perhaps America just isn't a good place for them to live. Is anyone ready to admit I am right when I suggest not using the word "you" when disagreeing with other members in a post? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Just have to laugh when I read "Like Me"... [He] can describe the marriage of those he doesn't know. I was asking questions. Of course no marriage is the same but as a rule most grandparents like to talk to their grandchildren. We go to great lengths to teach our children Spanish. It isn't easy. Kids don't like to do things that require effort. But love compels us to push them. It is most unfair for our children's grandparents not to be able to have a solid relationship with them because of language issues. My wife and I understood what we were getting into when we got married. Bi-cultural marriages are more work than unicultural marriages. We are up to the task and will not deny our extended family the relationships they deserve. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie Learning their language was not a requirement of either wife. Possibly should have checked with you first.Neither my nephew or son seems to have a problem "being lovingly embraced" Maybe they are lucky and do not deal with those that make such a big deal out of others that talk funny It is quite sad when grandparents cannot speak to their grandchildren. Tragic really. I am all for inter-cultural marriage but it is a two-way street. When one of the spouses refuses to learn the language and customs of the other spouse, the marriage fails to reach its full potential. Often times it leads straight to divorce, broken homes, broken hearts and broken dreams. Pride and laziness are typically the culprits. Don't worry to much about these grandparents.They are very close to their grandchildren.Amazing how they can make themselves understood with each other.They have not read your playbook I really don't care whether you are for interacial/cultural marriage or not.Of course you are again inserting what Shane wants me to have said as opposed to what I actually said. Really helps when you do not connect the dots in your rather faulty way. Nothing was said at all about a refusal to learn customs. There has not been a refusal to learn the language of their spouses as it was never requested or demanded. Both women are firm in that they are AMERICAN. Pride ihasn't anything to do with the issue. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I was asking questions. Of course no marriage is the same but as a rule most grandparents like to talk to their grandchildren. We go to great lengths to teach our children Spanish. It isn't easy. Kids don't like to do things that require effort. But love compels us to push them. It is most unfair for our children's grandparents not to be able to have a solid relationship with them because of language issues. My wife and I understood what we were getting into when we got married. Bi-cultural marriages are more work than unicultural marriages. We are up to the task and will not deny our extended family the relationships they deserve. Good for you. Like me again. Maybe my son and nephew don't love their children,is that it? You know absolutely nothing about my grandchildren or my son and nephew.Nor are you the one and only that understands what marriage involves.Nor is your way the only correct one.Doubtful they would consider seeking your counsel on their marriage Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 The word "you" is being used in a general sense. In the past when I have suggested others not use the word "you" I have been ridiculed for such a suggestion. Let me reword the paragraph so there is no misunderstanding. You sound more and more like a politician. Saying something and then "Oh wait a minute it was taken out of context" I have far more respect for a honest adversary.One that says what he means and means what he says. You were not using general terms when you stated "It did not sound good for my husband and I as parents",and now it does not speak well of my son and nephew. The best thing about the whole issue of our sons is I am not responsible to you,nor do I have to give a accounting to you. They have all grown into christian SDA men.I could not ask for anything else and we definitely did not do it your way. My nephew is also a man to be proud of On a personal level your opinion on the job my husband and I did concerning our sons is completely unimportant.Your self righteous attitude,referring to the love of Christ in your behavior is annoying at the least and far worse at the most Now it doesn't look good for my son and nephew as a husband.Who put you in that position? They do not place the same level of importance on language as you do.Maybe that is why you accuse others of being racist because you obsess over it.Personally I think part of your problem is their attitude as immigrants against welfare and living off taxpayers.Their learning skills/language goes against what you think should be. Just at least stop the spinning,when you have something to say be direct and stop with the not very subtle implications Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Maybe my son and nephew don't love their children,is that it? I think you are taking the thread too personally. We are talking about issues in general. Of course, it is true that many do rush into inter-cultural marriages too quickly without considering all the repercussions. Every marriage is hard work. Inter-cultural marriages are even harder. It isn't just about love. Love isn't enough. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 I think you are taking the thread too personally. We are talking about issues in general. Of course, it is true that many do rush into inter-cultural marriages too quickly without considering all the repercussions. Every marriage is hard work. Inter-cultural marriages are even harder. It isn't just about love. Love isn't enough. No Shane,when you make a direct reference to both my husband and myself and my son and nephew "it doesn't speak well" you have made it personal. That really isn't the problem,it is your ego that is. One of my sons has been married to a Hispanic far longer than you have been married.Another has been for 15 years.One son is married to a Russian immigrant and my nephew as well.None of them speak anything other than english. Your advice really has not been needed so far and is based on your environment and those you surround yourself with apparently. For some reason it seems to bother you that the women involved have a much different attitude.There has never been a refusal to learn,it has never been an issue. All the grandchildren involved are not tragically denied a relationship with their other grandparents. They certainly know and enjoy family culture. Russian Christmas in Jan as well as Christmas in Dec etc. You are all for encouraging those coming here not learning the english language,saying it is our responsibility to learn theirs because the choice they made.If someone wants to fine,but it is not a banner of superior husband,employer or anything else.A conscious choice was made. You don't have a problem with continued welfare based on a refusal to learn.If those from Mexico demand it we should create a pathway so they don't break our laws. You deny that there is much of a anchor baby problem because of where you live.MN knows differently.Welfare in general for immigrants legal and illegal is very high in MN.It is far to high for american born as well.On a personal level friends working in social services have a far different story to tell than you do.Hands on everyday as they struggle to keep up. Hands that are almost tied as it relates to typical rules for others. You believe it is foolish not to take advantage of handouts as in some convoluted way that is supposed to help the economy because they pay tax of some kind. It is recycled money and does not put any new revenue into the system. Because someone grows up poor you somehow think being poor entitles some to handouts of all kinds. For those like my family members,they do not believe in handouts,they do believe in doing what is required to take care of themselves as far as possible. That seems to cause you a problem For others like myself that experienced poverty on at least the same level you did,if not more so, know that we are/were not "entitled". Because of the poverty I grew up in I believe wholeheartedly in a hand up,not continued handouts because of a refusal on the part of the recipient. My siblings and I were not to fond of the poverty lifestyle and we knew there was one way out. Not the welfare route either.None of us have had the advantage of college. None of us required the taxpayer to pay part or all of a higher education. Had that been the goal we would have worked harder and done so.Just as my sons did,that leading to you saying it did not speak well for my husband and myself. We have all gone beyond how we grew up,some more than others. You don't seem to think that it is necessary without "entitlements" because of poverty. Giving free cell phone service etc is a great thing to you,regardless that it comes out of the pocket of others that do work for what they have. You have what my dad referred to as the "welfare mentality". Taking from others is a great and noble act. To me,before you do that and if that is necessary, you are doing everything you can to provide as much for yourself as possible. It may mean some tough sledding but the "free Lunch" does not exist. When others have a different viewpoint than you,they are cold hearted and deserve a special place in hell.To me those consistently looking for a handout and saying "give me,you owe me" are parasites.You don't seem to like that word but look it up if you don't know what it means. Shane's way and viewpoint is not the only valid or correct one. You like to insert "what would Jesus do" without taking the whole into account.Sounds great and righteous.There is quite a bit said. Taking from others without doing all you can to provide what you can is cold hearted and irresponsible. Those evil rich are not all that impacted but that "give me" attitude has a direct impact on those like my neighbor working two jobs,his wife one, to support our other "give me" neighbors. Those attending church school and academy with the same attitude had a very direct impact on those like my husband and myself.Those refusing to work a part time job were praised by you as they chose to spend more time with their families.Time provided by those that did not demand "their right to entitlement" Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 No Shane,when you make a direct reference to both my husband and myself and my son and nephew No. You are the one that mentions your son, husband, nephew, friend of a friend, neighbor, or whoever. As far as I am concerned they could be hypothetical situations or fictitious people. As far as I know you could be some man living in India or Kenya and making everything up. I don't know who you are and, as far as I know, I have never met anyone in your family. This is a forum where we exchange ideas, thoughts and opinions about political issues. If you don't want anyone offering ideas, thoughts or opinions about situations or people near and dear to you, don't offer them up as examples to support your ideology. You can offer up hypothetical situations and accomplish the same goal without getting your feelings hurt. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 You are all for encouraging those coming here not learning the english language Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 No. You are the one that mentions your son, husband, nephew, friend of a friend, neighbor, or whoever. As far as I am concerned they could be hypothetical situations or fictitious people. As far as I know you could be some man living in India or Kenya and making everything up. I don't know who you are and, as far as I know, I have never met anyone in your family. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 That is wrong. I encourage everyone that comes here to learn English. I have even taught ESL (English as a Second Language) classes. However I respect those that decide not to learn it. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Getting my feelings hurt is not the issue... Your comment didn't hurt my feelings Good. I am glad you didn't get your feelings hurt. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie Getting my feelings hurt is not the issue... Your comment didn't hurt my feelings Good. I am glad you didn't get your feelings hurt. Somehow I don't quite believe it was this big "christian" concern of yours.LOL Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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