Life on other planets

[Klapas]

Originally Posted By: Klapas

What would happen if EGW was ever proven wrong? (she has but you have the best spin doctors on the job)

Who are the spin doctors? Which books about Ellen White have you read?

I think the spin is on the side of those who are out to attack Ellen White rather than the other way around.

Can you give an example of "spin"?

Ok. If you think this is the right Place.

I'll post the EGW lie and you can do the spinning.

"But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p.64).

"Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p.75).

[Klapas]

Originally Posted By: Klapas

Here we go again.

This is the type of answer I always get from every SDA I know.

So what are your reasons for believing otherwise? If you are looking for Bible answers if there is life in other planets, other posters have already given you the hints provided in Scripture.

Quote:

God is a loving god.

It wouldn't be fair ..........

If Christ was here he would.......

Don't you think that.......

Billions of galaxies, there must be more than one....

God would have been bored for trillions of years till he made life on earth...

Listen guys. God is not a god of disorder or confusion. The bible is clear.

So would a God of order and harmony create a universe of full of galaxies and suns and planets and have only one inhabited? Instead of denigrating what other people think, then tell us what you think.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

[Gerr]

Gerry:

So would a God of order and harmony create a universe of full of galaxies and suns and planets and have only one inhabited? Instead of denigrating what other people think, then tell us what you think.

[Gerr]

"Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p.75).

I used to wonder about that statement until now. Have you heard of genetic engineering?

[Ron Lambert]

John317, the name "Adam"--which means "the man," is simply the name God gave to our race. That does not mean God could not have created other intelligent non-human races on other worlds.

Please note the "four living creatures" Bible prophecy depicts as being arrayed around God's throne. In Revelation 4:6, 7 we are told one had a face like a lion, one had a face like a calf, one had a face like a man, and one had a face like a flying eagle. This is just speculation on my part, but perhaps these are representative of some of the different intelligent races with which God has populated the universe. I also speculate that these four living creatures arrayed around the throne of God might have been something like pilots for the throne (God's throne is moveable).

[John317]

John317, the name "Adam"--which means "the man," is simply the name God gave to our race. That does not mean God could not have created other intelligent non-human races on other worlds.

Yes, of course-- I agree. I've argued here the whole time that God created other intelligent, non-human beings on other worlds.

[Kevin H]

You made some good points Ron, however the 4 living beasts are the symbols for the middle tribe on the four sides of the encampment and traveling pattern of the exodus. It represents God's people traveling through the wilderness towards the promised land. The pictures we see of the high priest's breast plates are usually wrong. The stones should border along the four sides with an empty area in the middle, this was the priest carrying the people with the empty area where the tabernacle and God's dwelling in the middle.

[Ron Lambert]

Kevin H, that is the first I have heard of that idea. It may be true, but what then is really being signified? The types associated with the sanctuary of ancient Israel pointed toward future fulfillments and heavenly realities. Saying that the four creatures (I prefer creatures to beasts) of Revelation 4-5 point back toward something in the wilderness wanderings of the children of Israel, would seem to be getting the typology backwards. Maybe there is something here in what you are putting forth that I don't get. Would you care to explain?

[Klapas]

Originally Posted By: Klapas

"Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p.75).

I used to wonder about that statement until now. Have you heard of genetic engineering?

Today, yes!

Then, no!

Are you seriously trying to convince me that genetic engineering existed pre and post flood?

Now I've heard it all. How low would you stoop to protect a false prophet?

[ClubV12]

Klapas, if your going to call people liars I think your post should be edited.

MINE WAS REMOVED ENTIRELY.

Now heres the thing, my point was if we are going to start calling people liars, dead or alive, then moderate ALL such posts.

I am offended that Klapas has called Ellen White a liar.

Klapas says.

"I'll post the EGW lie and you can do the spinning."

[John317]

Ok. If you think this is the right Place.

I'll post the EGW lie and you can do the spinning.

"But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p.64).

"Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p.75).

There are good explanations of what Ellen White said in those quotes, but what you post here shows that you alreaedy have your mind made up, so what's the sense in writing to you about them?

Readers who visit the Forum deserve to see a response to your accusation that Ellen White lied, and so one will be given, but not in the hope that you will seriously consider it anything except "spin."

Again, it is as if you are saying, "Forget the facts-- I have my mind made up."

That is not the attitude that you displayed on this discussion when you first began posting.

[Klapas]

I apologize for calling her a liar.

The above quotes from Spiritual Gifts were written in a time when most people were racist. She obviously was talking about indigenous people.

This would not have been written today.

[ClubV12]

Thanks Kalpas I appreciate your apology on that issue.

I don't know how Ellen White might write that today, "amalgamation of man and beast". Some say, "amalgamation of man AND also of beast." I don't know. Actually, I don't have a major problem with the concept she was really referring to the off spring of a human and animal combination.

We know so little about the anti-deluvian world. But it's pretty clear they had substantial life force that is far in excess of anything human kind has seen since then. People lived for hundreds of years. Additional insights from Ellen White comments reveal they were far beyond the limited intelligence we have today. Einstein would have been a mental midget in comparison. With such great intelligence and long lived life, it's hard to say what they could have come up with.

How close are WE today to an amalgamation of man and beast?

As to WHO she was talking about, "indigenous people" we have only speculation from others as she never clarified it. I'm OK with that.

[Aliensanctuary]

Sometimes I wonder if some of the massive, precisely built stone monuments were built by the antediluvians. It's hard to picture men cutting huge building blocks out of bedrock, then moving them some distance, with only primitive tools. Perhaps there is a better way to separate atoms and molecules, cut stone, that is, other than by brute force. Perhaps the effects of gravity can be neutralized, enabling large stone monoliths to be moved about rapidly like toy blocks.

The Four Living Creatures stationed by the Whirling Wheels beneath the "Throne" of the LORD do seem to be involved in its propulsion system. Noteworthy: certain walls of the Temple, especially the Temple described in Ezek 44 and on, are decorated with a palm tree/cherubim motif. Being 2-dimensional, only 2 faces of the 4-faced Cherubim are depicted...the face of a man, and the face of a lion.

Of course, we can safely conclude that YHVH and the civilization he dwells with are extra-terrestrials who are apparently not native to this planet. "Heaven", or "Up", or "Out There in Space Somewhere" is just the place where this civilization is located. Maybe these "aliens" live in this solar system, hidden from our view, maybe they are many light years away, maybe they exist in another dimension, or maybe they exist thousands of years in the future and are looking back at us, having sent messages to the prophets about events that will occur on our planet.

[jasd]

QR frame:

Coupla things: 1) Klapas has certainly sharpened his language skills in these three pages. A quick learner. Congrats! ;-)

2) We’ve proven Einstein’s theory re time by synchronizing two atomic clocks and sending one into space to orbit Earth. The one orbiting Earth once every ninety minutes was desynchronized when returned to earth. It was running slower than its twin. Time is relative to speed per Einstein.

If we believe Writ, then we believe that the antediluvians practiced genetic engineering: “As it was in the days of Noah...” We are already marketing lab-created chimeras with endless possibilities soon forthcoming.

We’ve found upon an arch where the plaster had fallen away in a building in Egypt - depictions of flying craft, including transport helicopters - looking as though designed to transport cargo containers. Pre-flood or post-flood, who knows?

Reading the Baghavad-Gita one finds narratives of what can only be described as nuclear war with its aftermath; that is, radiation poisoning. It tells of destruction of cities by aerial bombardment with the fire of Shiva. All metal had to cast away and metal worn on the body removed, else one died from sores. After casting away the metals, the peoples had to wash the ash from their bodies. Those lucky enough to be by a river immersed themselves to cleanse themselves of the ash.

That may be the origin of ritual washing in the Ganges and other rivers of India.

Writ informs that Gd gave us two books for instruction; one is the Holy Writ and the other is nature.

By Google-ing our moon and Mars for anomalies – we’re finding plausible evidence for, if not ‘Contact’, then near ‘Contact’. There remains upon the moon a skeletal structure dubbed the Tower - which reaches skyward seven miles. Likewise, upon Mars we’ve not only found residue of a former civilization, but anomalies which seem to indicate a presence still functioning upon Mars.

Seems, that we don’t even have to leave the neighborhood to find evidence of extraterrestrials – on another planet.

Let’s not forget that antediluvian man was first taught by Gd Himself, and perhaps later, by 'fallen beings’. Moreover, he lived for centuries accumulating knowledge. It is preposterous to think that that knowledge was lost in its entirety in the flood.

Shortly after the flood man attempted to erect a structure which would reach even unto heaven. What’s that!? An energy accumulator/condenser? There are those who say that the pyramids were originally built to function as energy collectors – used as ‘filling stations’ for interplanetary vehicles.

Lastly, it is theorized that the observable universe represents less than eight percent of the total matter in the universe. That implies dimensions. Mebbe, separated by fractions of frequencies? Time divisions?

[Klapas]

I want what he's been smoking.

[jasd]

>>I want what he's been smoking.<<

Too parochial. It may that "he's" blowing or shooting...

Don't be so quick to dismiss what you haven't grasped.

[Klapas]

C'mon. I thought you said these sinless aliens can not make contact with us sinners.

Dont you know that those who have undeniably had contact with aliens have at some stage in their live messed with occult? Any contact with aliens is actually demons or bad drugs.

[ClubV12]

Well, I won't go to far "out there" in the way of much speculation. I won't hesitate to base my reasoning on things that revealed by the bible and by the Lords messenger, Ellen White. Rounding out those "clues" with a sanctified imagination.

Mars? I know nothing, I've seen no inspired counsel on it one way or another, so I have no opinion. Other created beings in other planets? No doubt about that! Where are they, who are they, how they interact with earth? I haven't got a clue, I suspect they DON'T interact with earth in any way. I suspect that is strictly limited to the created beings called "angels" that work closely with God and originate from a very real "heaven" to carry out His will on this earth. I recognize that one third of those heavenly angels were "thrown out" and they DO interact with humans, in a very bad way! The good angels, at Gods direction, maintain a balance of power. When the good angels are withdrawn and Satan with his host is allowed to fully rule the world, it will be a tragic end to mankind.

Anything the antideluvians built would have been destroyed in the flood. I doubt there are any traces of such works in existence since then. We DO have evidence of creatures of enormous size, the dinosaurs, buried in the flood. We DO have reports of "giants" in the bible AND "giant" fruit as well. Sister White has quite a lot to say about the antideluvian world in fact, but she raises a lot of questions at the same time. I draw the line at "speculation" and prefer to build on what has been revealed. Obviously I understand not everyone accepts what Ellen White has to say, but that is their loss. They have only what "man" can tell them, much of which is "best guess". I prefer "facts" myself...

Considering flying machines in the antideluvian world. Why would they need them? There were no mountains, the land produced everything they needed with little toil. Gems and precious stones were abundant and laying right on top of the ground. Their knowledge was far above ours, the workmanship in the arts and such like we've never seen. Those people had it GOOD, real good, plenty of time on their hands, plenty of resources to do whatever they wanted, they could experiment and learn for decades. There wasn't even need for a written language, the people all spoke the SAME LANGUAGE and their memory was so vastly superior to ours they didn't need to write anything down! Adam lived for 900 years or so and he was a living history book from day one! The Garden of Eden still existed, though no one could enter it, they had a full knowledge of creation and the history of this earth, which they chose to ignore.

I have no doubt they were highly skilled in every area, medicine, science, math, breeding, gardening, building, etc. Far beyond our capabilities today. FAR, very far, from "cave men", who only came AFTER the flood.

In the post flood world, man's ability, mental prowess, size and length of life dramatically declined. Noah had to start from scratch, in a world destroyed like an apocalypse. Life was hard, it was indeed the "worst of times". Man in that state could not deal with animals the size of dinosaurs, so the Lord removed them during the flood for man's protection.

Something fundamental happened to the atmosphere as well. The water that had previously been there was lost in the flood, fell from the sky. Man had never seen a rainbow before, it had NEVER RAINED before. With this remarkable change in the atmosphere, more sunlight could penetrate to the earth, I believe this would impact "carbon dating" and other common methods of "dating" stuff.

But I won't go "to far out" and go all "speculation" on things that are not revealed.

[Gerr]

I used to wonder about that statement until now. Have you heard of genetic engineering?

Today, yes!

Then, no!

Are you seriously trying to convince me that genetic engineering existed pre and post flood?

Now I've heard it all. How low would you stoop to protect a false prophet?

You are welcome in this forum, but I think your agenda is showing.

Consider this - how much of this present world's technology existed 200 years ago? Antediluvians lived many centuries, many almost a thousand. With their giant intellect, it's not a big stretch of my imagination that their technology was far more advanced than we give them credit for. Jubal invented the lyre and the pipe early on. And Tubal-cain became a forger of all kinds of instruments from bronze and iron.

From the pen of one you have labeled "false prophet": "In the antediluvian world there were many wonderful works of art and science. These descendants of Adam, fresh from the hand of God, possessed capabilities and powers that we never now look upon." {CC 34.4}

[Gerr]

Don't be so quick to dismiss what you haven't grasped.

[Klapas]

You are welcome in this forum, but I think your agenda is showing.

Consider this - how much of this present world's technology existed 200 years ago? Antediluvians lived many centuries, many almost a thousand. With their giant intellect, it's not a big stretch of my imagination that their technology was far more advanced than we give them credit for. Jubal invented the lyre and the pipe early on. And Tubal-cain became a forger of all kinds of instruments from bronze and iron.

From the pen of one you have labeled "false prophet": "In the antediluvian world there were many wonderful works of art and science. These descendants of Adam, fresh from the hand of God, possessed capabilities and powers that we never now look upon." {CC 34.4}

[ClubV12]

For me it would be nothing but pure speculation as to how they did whatever it was they did. I'm not sure they would NEED computers at all though, I do believe their reasoning and logic powers were equal to or greater than a computer. I don't underestimate their superior intellect in any way. Nor their access to raw materials in extraordinary abundance,their skill in working with these materials. Genetic engineering is certainly possible when you take into account the people, place, time and such as you flesh out the details and clues the bible and the prophet has left us with. I believe our feeble minds can barely grasp the possibilities of an earth filled with humans of great intellect living hundreds of years. Optics of all kinds would have been childs play for them.

I say this not to those who don't believe, but for those that do, to contemplate the wonder of God's creation in original man and what we may become when He returns.

The New earth, the new re-creation, our destiny, should we remain faithful, will exceed even the powers of that old world. Imagine, eye sight without need of correction, being able to focus as if it were a satellite seeing in detail for great distances. And yet, being able to see even the smallest details of a flower. Being able to remember every detail of every moment of life, forever, and adding constantly to that "data base". Exploring the many other worlds and visiting the inhabitants, ever learning more about the great sacrifice of our creator and the price all Heaven paid for our redemption. Computers in heaven? Flying machines? No need of any of those things. The speed of light only a law HERE because the Lord deemed it should be so. There? No limits.

Adam named all the animals, can you imagine the intellect needed for that alone? Without computers, without paper or pen, just based on memory and never duplicating a name.

[Gerr]

You are kidding aren't you?

I couldn't be more serious. What could one supergenius do living 800-900 years instead of 70? And how long did it take these - precision optics, computers, electricity, liquid nitrogen etc,etc,etc, - to be invented? Your imagination is too limited. As JASD said, don't discount something just because your mind can't grasp it.

As for "amalgamation", here's the Webster definition:

amal•gam•ate \-g&#601;-&#716;m&#257;t\ verb transitive

-at•ed; -at•ing 1617 : to unite in or as if in an amalgam especially : to merge into a single body synonym see MIX — amal•gam•ator \-&#716;m&#257;-t&#601;r\ noun

amal•gam•ation \&#601;-&#716;mal-g&#601;-&#712;m&#257;-sh&#601;n\ noun

1612

1 a : the action or process of amalgamating : UNITING

b : the state of being amalgamated

2 : the result of amalgamating : AMALGAM

3 : MERGER &#12296;amalgamation of two corporations&#12297;

Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster's collegiate dictionary. (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, Mass.: Merriam-Webster, Inc.

Nothing is said about "white human unadulterated sex." While the meaning may indeed include sex, are you denying that man has had sex with animals?

Your interpretation that her statement exclusively meant sex between man with beast is totally unwarranted and shows a one-track mind. Here are her statements regarding this subject:

1. "But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. God purposed to destroy by a flood that powerful, long-lived race that had corrupted their ways before him." 1SP 69.

One pre-flood amalgamation that the Bible mentions is:

ESV | &#8206;Ge 6:2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.

2. Every species of animals which God had created was preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood, there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. 1SP78

"Amalgamation of man and beast" could be understood to mean:

(1) copulation of man WITH beast. Man certainly have had sex with animals. But this cannot produce an offspring. However, this is possible with genetic engineering.

(2) amalgamation of two groups of men as cited in Gen 6:2, or two animals from different genera and produce a new species - e.g. tiger + lion = tigon/liger, zebra + horse = zorse.

3. But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. 3SG 64

See comment above.

4. Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. 3SG 75

How many dogs did Noah have in the ark? Did he have a chihuahua? How many cows? How many cats? You get the picture.

[ClubV12]

"Man certainly have had sex with animals. But this cannot produce an offspring."

Actually, I've wondered if that is strictly true or not. The antideluvians had a "life force" that is difficult for us to comprehend. While it is reasonable to assume, based on what we know today, they could not directly reproduce with animals, I won't discount the possibility entirely. We have seen surprising results in mixing various animals we assumed could never reproduce, and yet, they have!

On the other hand, genetic engineering would have been easily accomplished by such a race of people.