A Question for Dr. Walter J. Veith

[Nic Samojluk]

Dr. Walter J. Veith,

I just finished watching your interview with Bruce Jenkings and must say that I am impressed with the clarity with which you explain your doctrinal position, especially your accurate view of the true meaning of the term “Remnant” as it relates to the Adventist doctrines. [ http://www.youtube.com/user/TheClosingOfTime#p/u/12/p-QQ0dvy5KE ]

Unlike your personal experience, I am a second generation Adventist, and I grew up with the conviction that the “Remnant” will be integrated by those who remain faithful to Jesus and all Ten of God’s Commandments, instead of only Nine or less.

My question to you is: Can our church still claim to the “Remnant” title, given the fact that our church has redefined the true and unambiguous meaning of the Sixth Commandment which prohibits the killing of innocent human beings? Have you read the Adventist “Guidelines on Abortion”?

If you have, you might have noticed that said guidelines specify some exclusions to the killing of human beings in cases of abortion when the pregnancy has been the result of rape or incest. Does it make legal sense to let the guilty rapist live and to kill instead one of the victims of such criminal act?

Did you notice that the same guidelines also justify abortion under the mental health exception so ardently defended by the pro-abortion crowd? This exception has actually opened the way for elective abortions—abortions on demand, which resulted in the largest genocide of human being ever recorded in history.

It works this way: Individuals engage in fornication and adultery, the female gets pregnant and in desperation tells her doctor: “I feel desperate, depressed and I can neither study, work or sleep.” The result in most cases is another murder of an innocent baby who has done no wrong.

Did you know that we Adventist—especially in North America—have led the way in the legalization of abortion? This has been amply documented in our Adventist literature. Our church did allow one of our hospitals to provide abortions on demand services to their patients back in 1970—three years before the U.S. Supreme Court gave Carte Blanche for the killing of the unborn.

As you can imagine, several other Adventist hospitals did the same, and this is documented in the pages of our official “Ministry” magazine. The current General Conference president and the one who preceded him did publicly declare that our church is pro-life. How can we take such declarations at face value? Don’t actions speak louder than words?

Our guidelines on abortion claim that our church does not condone abortions on demand, but the facts of history tell us a different story. Some of our hospitals have offered abortions on demand for many decades with impunity. Isn’t this reminiscent of what Pilate did: He washed his hands and laid the blame for the death of an innocent man on the Jewish leaders. Did that remove the blood stains of his hands?

You may ask: “How do you know all this?” Well, I spent several years researching the Adventist literature and have finally published a book on this topic. I hope you might be tempted to read it. I am willing to order a gift copy for you if you send me your mailing address by return mail. If you read my book, please let me know whether you still think that the Adventist Church has the right to claim the “Remnant” name! Here is the title of the book and some links you can use to access the Lulu site.

“From Pro-life to Pro-choice: The Dramatic Shift in Seventh-day Attitudes Towards Abortion.”[/b]

A. http://www.lulu.com/browse/search.php?fListingClass=7&fSearch=%22From+Pro-life+to+Pro-choice%22&fSubmitSearch=Go&showingSubPanels=&fSort=relevance_desc

B. From Pro-life to Pro-choice - Lulu1.com.htm

C. http://www.lulu.com/browse/books/7 and then type my name—"Nic Samojluk"- or the first few words of the title of the book—"From Pro-life"—in the search blank space.

[Nic Samojluk]

You might be aware that Walter Veith is a world renowned author, speaker and writer, with a background in science and religion who converted from Catholicism to Adventism and is very active in the study and research of the topic of creation versus evolution.

[billypk]

I was looking thru the topic's and by happen chance clicked yours. Curious, I listened to the youtube link by Dr Veith. I have never heard of him. I have listen to some of his other talks. Thanks for sharing this. He is a most interesting and thought provoking individual. Bill

[Gerr]

I doubt that he comes to this forum. Why don't you send that letter to him and then post his answer here?

[Nic Samojluk]

I doubt that he comes to this forum. Why don't you send that letter to him and then post his answer here?

I did. The only reason I posted this here was to share with the readers of this forum my concern for the Adventist Church, which I believe needs a revival and reformation which should include the respect for human life.

The Sabbath is sacred, but human life is sacred as well. No one I know is loosing his life for worshipping the Lord on the wrong day of the week; but millions have died as a result of the lack of respect for the right to life of the unborn.

We Adventists have worked very hard to improve the health of human beings. At the same time, we have led the way for the legalization of abortion. This makes no sense. We do what we can to prolong the life and health of the population and we have also allowed some of our hospitals to profit from the killing of the most vulnerable members of the human race. This is immoral and irrational.

We did allow our hospital in Hawaii to offer elective abortions to their patients back in 1970. That was three years prior to Roe v Wade, when the killing of unborn babies became legal in the U.S. mainland. How can I explain this to non-Adventists who know that we have always claimed to have a high regard for God’s Ten Commandment?

[Nic Samojluk]

I was looking thru the topic's and by happen chance clicked yours. Curious, I listened to the youtube link by Dr Veith. I have never heard of him. I have listen to some of his other talks. Thanks for sharing this. He is a most interesting and thought provoking individual. Bill

Hi Bill,

I was also impressed with the story of Walter Veith's conversion from Catholicism to the Adventist faith. I was surprised to discover that the "Spectrum" bloggers do not share my views. Veith might be off regarding the "illuminati" and other conspiracy stories, but his conversion experience seems to be very genuine. Besides, he has led many to Jesus Christ.

[Stan]

Nic, I do have to say you are vigilant and passionate on this.

Vieth does say a lot of interesting things, my personal experiences is that he splits churches with his conspiracy paranoia.

[Stan]

This is a nice read

http://religiousliberty.tv/the-problem-i-have-with-conspiracy-theories.html

Going to post it elsewhere as well, so it doesn't hijack this topic.

[Nic Samojluk]

This is a nice read

http://religiousliberty.tv/the-problem-i-have-with-conspiracy-theories.html

Going to post it elsewhere as well, so it doesn't hijack this topic.

Stan,

You may be right. I haven’t read anything written by Walter Veith, except for the video about his conversion from Catholicism to Adventism.

Thanks for the link. Very well written and well documented with quotations from the Bible and from Ellen White. In spite of all this, my original question remains:

“Do you think that Pastor Walter Veith's conspiracy theories negate the sincerity of his conversion experience from Catholicism to Adventism?”

[Gail]

Well done, Stan! I've had some incredible conversations with customers re: Veith's DVDs

and Nic, I don't for a minute doubt Prof. Veith's sincerity of his conversion experience AND that his work has led many to come to the Lord.

[Overaged]

Nic; I don't blame you for being disgusted with the several hospitals that have/do support and provide abortions. It upsets me too.

I cannot agree though that the church as a whole or on an official basis has "changed the meaning of the 6th commandment" or that the church officially approves of abortion on demand.

And I think some clarification is in order. When you say "the church in North America" is guilty, you really are only talking about the Church in the USA because Canada has no Adventist hospitals, and so the church's involvement is not as widespread as what your comments here seem to imply.

Accusing the church of "genocide" based on a very small minority going against the church position is innapropriate and it's just not right to make the whole church like them. It's just like seeing that some Adventists eat meat, so "they can't really be vegetarians.

[Overaged]

What kind of conspiracy theries does he promote?

[phkrause]

What kind of conspiracy theries does he promote?

Who Nic or Veith? :)

[Gail]

:)

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

What kind of conspiracy theries does he promote?

Who Nic or Veith?

You get a big doggie kiss for that one.

[John317]

Vieth does say a lot of interesting things, my personal experiences is that he splits churches with his conspiracy paranoia.

I have only seen a few videos of Vieth, and while I don't accept everything he says in his tapes regarding the King James Version, etc., I do think he has a lot of valuable things to say on many subjects.

There's a local church here (in Southern California) which gives out all his videos on CDs, and he's spoken in that church a number of times before, yet I haven't seen any evidence of the church splitting.

What conspiracy paranoia has he shown that causes churches to split?

And what churches have split?

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

What kind of conspiracy theries does he promote?

Who Nic or Veith?

LOL; well I was asking re Veith. This is the first I heard of anything like this about him. I would be interested to know what the major issue/s are.

(what's everybody so worried about? Veith eats cookies too).

[phkrause]

LOL; well I was asking re Veith. This is the first I heard of anything like this about him. I would be interested to know what the major issue/s are.

(what's everybody so worried about? Veith eats cookies too).

LOL, I agree. :)

[Kountzer]

IMO the glory star satellite television network is a must have for every adventist home. There are at least 8 english speaking adventist channels. There may be more than that, I haven't watched all the channels. Of those 8 adventist channels I watch maybe six channels on a regular basis. One of those six is adtv or amazing discoveries tv, Walter Veith's channel. I watch 3abn proclaim the most, then 3abn. I only watch adtv occasionally. When I watch that channel I find that Veith is not the only lecturer. There are about 5 or 6 others, and they are all good. The pastor out of Canada, Victor Gil, he's very good. In short, I have no problem with Walter Veith.

[phkrause]

IMO the glory star satellite television network is a must have for every adventist home. There are at least 8 english speaking adventist channels. There may be more than that, I haven't watched all the channels. Of those 8 adventist channels I watch maybe six channels on a regular basis. One of those six is adtv or amazing discoveries tv, Walter Veith's channel. I watch 3abn proclaim the most, then 3abn. I only watch adtv occasionally. When I watch that channel I find that Veith is not the only lecturer. There are about 5 or 6 others, and they are all good. The pastor out of Canada, Victor Gil, he's very good. In short, I have no problem with Walter Veith.

Kountzer which glory star satellite receiver do you have? If you don't mind me asking. I picked up a telecom (I believe that's the name of it) receiver from a lady that wasn't using it anymore and had it put up at my Mom's house. It has about 10-15 SDA channels besides the 160 others stations it picks up. I'm looking into getting the glory star for my house, they have a number of different ones. So was wondering which one you have and how you like the reception?

[Kountzer]

Originally Posted By: Kountzer

IMO the glory star satellite television network is a must have for every adventist home. There are at least 8 english speaking adventist channels. There may be more than that, I haven't watched all the channels. Of those 8 adventist channels I watch maybe six channels on a regular basis. One of those six is adtv or amazing discoveries tv, Walter Veith's channel. I watch 3abn proclaim the most, then 3abn. I only watch adtv occasionally. When I watch that channel I find that Veith is not the only lecturer. There are about 5 or 6 others, and they are all good. The pastor out of Canada, Victor Gil, he's very good. In short, I have no problem with Walter Veith.

Kountzer which glory star satellite receiver do you have? If you don't mind me asking. I picked up a telecom (I believe that's the name of it) receiver from a lady that wasn't using it anymore and had it put up at my Mom's house. It has about 10-15 SDA channels besides the 160 others stations it picks up. I'm looking into getting the glory star for my house, they have a number of different ones. So was wondering which one you have and how you like the reception?

I have the GEOSATpro 1100r. It has the ability to record dvr style, with a computer hard drive. I can only get the glory star channels, but that is good enough for me.

[phkrause]

I have the GEOSATpro 1100r. It has the ability to record dvr style, with a computer hard drive. I can only get the glory star channels, but that is good enough for me.

Thanks for the info. But according to the web site it gets a lot more than that? And its not cheap either. :)

[Nic Samojluk]

Well done, Stan! I've had some incredible conversations with customers re: Veith's DVDs

and Nic, I don't for a minute doubt Prof. Veith's sincerity of his conversion experience AND that his work has led many to come to the Lord.

Yes, I agree with you. Since my last posting, I have watched several of Veith’s videos related to his early experience with the Catholic church, how he turned his back to the church he grew in because he could not accept the doctrine that his mother who died of cancer when he was twelve would spend eternity in hell simply because she was reared a Lutheran and had never converted to Catholicism; how he became an avowed atheist; how he used to ridicule some of his university students for their beliefs in God and in Creation instead of evolution; how his baby became the object of devil possession and later exorcized by an old Catholic priest who knew about his problem even before he had a chance to tell him about it; how he was confronted with the Adventist doctrines; how the demonic possession of his child returned, and how the prayer of Adventists lead to the permanent deliverance of his baby.

The story of this man is very dramatic. I am not telling even a one percent of how the Lord led him through terrible circumstances to the place where he is now: A scientist, pastor, and evangelist who is leading his listeners back to the one who created the heavens and the earth.

I have not seen any of the alleged conspiratorial videos, but I do know that one of the eminent late Adventists evangelists and theologians—Roy Allan Anderson—used to preach about the Illuminati with great enthusiasm and he was never ostracized like Veith is by some Adventists, especially by those who have compromised about our doctrine of creation. This is quite evident in the pages of Spectrum.

[Nic Samojluk]

Overaged wrote:

“Nic; I don't blame you for being disgusted with the several hospitals that have/do support and provide abortions. It upsets me too.

I cannot agree though that the church as a whole or on an official basis has "changed the meaning of the 6th commandment" or that the church officially approves of abortion on demand.

And I think some clarification is in order. When you say "the church in North America" is guilty, you really are only talking about the Church in the USA because Canada has no Adventist hospitals, and so the church's involvement is not as widespread as what your comments here seem to imply.”

*********

I am glad that you agree with me that our hospitals should have never been involved with the abortions on demand business. Much less for profit.

If you want me to replace North America with the U.S., I have no problem. I have not investigated the Adventist situation in Canada. I do know, though that in general Canadians are known for their liberal attitude towards homosexuality, for example. Whether this applies to Adventists as well I do not know.

You seem to be of the opinion that the Adventist Church has not violated the Sixth Commandment. Let me ask you a question: Was Pilate responsible for the killing of Jesus Christ? He was not in agreement with the demand of the Jews. He did declare that Jesus was innocent of any crime, and he washed his hands. Nevertheless, he did allow for the crime to be committed.

Were Pilate hands clean from the blood of Jesus? How about David? He did not kill Uriah the Hittite. He simply arranged for David enemies to kill him. What did the prophet say about his action? “You have killed an innocent man with the sword of your enemies.”

Now apply this to what happened in Hawaii back in 1970—three yeas before abortion became legal in the U.S. mainland. The non-Adventist physicians at that hospital demanded the right to offer abortion on demand and threatened to take their patients elsewhere in the event their petition was denied.

What did the church do? Our leaders declared that the church does not condone elective abortions, but allowed those physicians to engage in the killing of innocent unborn babies. Was this action much different from what Pilate and King David had done? This compromise over a moral issue was soon mimicked by several other Adventist hospitals.

Did our church redefine the true meaning of the Sixth Commandment? The Commandment forbids the killing of innocent human beings? What do our “Guidelines on Abortion” say regarding this? It provides a list of exceptions to God’s prohibitions making the prohibition meaningless.

A good example is the “mental health exception.” Think about the following: Isn’t a temporary depression the normal reaction to an unexpected pregnancy? Does a temporary mental depression justify the permanent deprivation of life for an innocent unborn baby? The church says so. Such a position makes God’s ruling against killing meaningless!

Suppose the government applied a similar attitude towards stealing, or rape, or sexual abuse of children. Suppose the law stated: Stealing from others is a crime, except when a person is broke, or unemployed, or has an emergency? Wouldn't such an exception nullify the rule against stealing?

And remember that a stolen car or bank account can be replaced with time, while a stolen life is an irreversible act which cannot be undone.

[Overaged]

If you want me to replace North America with the U.S., I have no problem. I have not investigated the Adventist situation in Canada. I do know, though that in general Canadians are known for their liberal attitude towards homosexuality, for example. Whether this applies to Adventists as well I do not know.

You seem to be of the opinion that the Adventist Church has not violated the Sixth Commandment. Let me ask you a question: Was Pilate responsible for the killing of Jesus Christ? He was not in agreement with the demand of the Jews. He did declare that Jesus was innocent of any crime, and he washed his hands. Nevertheless, he did allow for the crime to be committed.

I am afraid you have simply generated an aggressive conspiracy theory on this subject Nic. I won't try to convince you or argue with you about it; but I know people all across canada, and in the USA; and this problem is not a tenth as widespread as you intimate; neither does anyone I know support abortion, not matter what church i go to or who in the world I talk to.

If you could bring your ideas and efforts more into their correct perspective; it might be worth believing.

I know of several instances where the current suggested guidelines on abortion have prevented abortions, because of the emphasis on seeking other support so that unplanned for/unwanted babies can live. It's OK to disagree with abortions, but not to blame everyone for the sins of a few.

Take courage brother - God will be with everyone who sincerely seeks truth and justice.